The state of the Giants and Suns

[Colonial]

explain how his post is not some what correct ?? I don’t hate Gws but one of major reason used for exspansion in to those markets was creating an extra game therefore larger tv rights -higher ratings for the networks in a key market so stating a fact that tv ratings have not improved in nsw since they came in like the afl said would happen you can’t accuse someone of hate just because they are stating a truthful fact that you can’t come back at or don’t like!

Lol in no way was anything that individual said factual

 

[Pippen94]

Evidence?

See last night's rating, lol.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

100

See last night's rating, lol.

100% agree it’s black and white tv ratings have not improved in nsw and Queensland since the expansion same as there crowds they just refuse to admit this especially the AFL this was one of the main reasons given for going there and not Tasmania the afl are lucky that the game pretty much sells its self around the rest of the country because they make some extremely poor and ill informed business decisions just like they rushing into exspaning to the Gold Coast!

 

[Colonial]

100

100% agree it’s black and white tv ratings have not improved in nsw and Queensland since the expansion same as there crowds they just refuse to admit this especially the AFL this was one of the main reasons given for going there and not Tasmania the afl are lucky that the game pretty much sells its self around the rest of the country because they make some extremely poor and ill informed business decisions just like they rushing into exspaning to the Gold Coast!

Please. Considering it was at zero before we got here there is obvious growth there.

Saints has had over 100 years and get almost exactly the same funding as us.

You lot will be moved on from a flooded market well before the Giants and Suns ever will.

 

[Pippen94]

Please. Considering it was at zero before we got here there is obvious growth there.

Saints has had over 100 years and get almost exactly the same funding as us.

You lot will be moved on from a flooded market well before the Giants and Suns ever will.

Just ignore the figures I suppose. Established teams provide league with fans & TV viewers - that's where funding money comes from. GC & gws offer only potential growth. Unfortunately neither have grown in the past decade.

 

[Billy ray]

Just ignore the figures I suppose. Established teams provide league with fans & TV viewers - that's where funding money comes from. GC & gws offer only potential growth. Unfortunately neither have grown in the past decade.

Just give it a rest buddy. Suns and giants aren’t going anywhere.
If they are terminated or relocated i promise to pay for a trip to the US so you can meet scottie pippen.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Please. Considering it was at zero before we got here there is obvious growth there.

Saints has had over 100 years and get almost exactly the same funding as us.

You lot will be moved on from a flooded market well before the Giants and Suns ever will.

I never mentioned a word about st kilda but I don’t care what the afl states with there phoney expansion figures and crowd numbers there is no club that gets anywhere near the funding gws and the suns get look at how many members you have and the crowds you guys get and your trying to tell people your club operates with a similar amount of funding from the afl the numbers just don’t add upyou have a look at the official tv ratings for afl in nsw over the last decade were its there for all to read if this was a major reason for expansion then it’s been a failure!

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Just give it a rest buddy. Suns and giants aren’t going anywhere.
If they are terminated or relocated i promise to pay for a trip to the US so you can meet scottie pippen.

I agree the afl would never admit there mistake even when all the figures say otherwise there was only room for one expansion team GWS the Gold Coast was a terribly bad business decision which history’s shown with the region!

 

[Colonial]

I never mentioned a word about st kilda but I don’t care what the afl states with there phoney expansion figures and crowd numbers there is no club that gets anywhere near the funding gws and the suns get look at how many members you have and the crowds you guys get and your trying to tell people your club operates with a similar amount of funding from the afl the numbers just don’t add upyou have a look at the official tv ratings for afl in nsw over the last decade were its there for all to read if this was a major reason for expansion then it’s been a failure!

I know you didn't. Funny about that.

Enjoy that tinfoil hat.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I know you didn't. Funny about that.

Enjoy that tinfoil hat.

Did you look at the tv ratings ?or are you just pretending they don’t exist

 

[Colonial]

Did you look at the tv ratings ?or are you just pretending they don’t exist

I know the ratings. Always has been and always was a generational build.

I also know we are an 8 year old club in frontier territory.

What's your mobs excuse for fleecing the funds?

100 years and still haven't got your s**t sorted in a flooded market.

But those facts are all made up eh?

 

[abcde12345]

I never mentioned a word about st kilda but I don’t care what the afl states with there phoney expansion figures and crowd numbers there is no club that gets anywhere near the funding gws and the suns get look at how many members you have and the crowds you guys get and your trying to tell people your club operates with a similar amount of funding from the afl the numbers just don’t add upyou have a look at the official tv ratings for afl in nsw over the last decade were its there for all to read if this was a major reason for expansion then it’s been a failure!

You do realise that those "Phoney" figures about funding are lodged and audited figures? I somehow doubt the AFL and KPMG are taking such a massive risk engaging in fraud just because they are "scared of admitting a mistake".

I agree the afl would never admit there mistake even when all the figures say otherwise there was only room for one expansion team GWS the Gold Coast was a terribly bad business decision which history’s shown with the region!

So your definition of success is on-field then? Seems a bit hypocritical to argue that as a St Kilda fan.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I know the ratings. Always has been and always was a generational build.

I also know we are an 8 year old club in frontier territory.

What's your mobs excuse for fleecing the funds?

100 years and still haven't got your s**t sorted in a flooded market.

But those facts are all made up eh?

Made up Like how all the tenant clubs that helped the afl pay off marvel stadium with terrible stadium deals that lost those clubs millions every year how much debt would gws have ?? if it was not being fully bank rolled buy the afl . And how many generations are we talking Brisbane and Sydney have been around almost 40 years not much growth shown with either break even clubs at best!

 

[Tasmanian saint]

You do realise that those "Phoney" figures about funding are lodged and audited figures? I somehow doubt the AFL and KPMG are taking such a massive risk engaging in fraud just because they are "scared of admitting a mistake".


So your definition of success is on-field then? Seems a bit hypocritical to argue that as a St Kilda fan.

The suns problems go well beyond onfield as has been proven buy ever single sporting franchise ever based on the Gold Coast but none of those failures happened right?? The afl never committing fraud just like when they were completely honest with asada and wada over the supplements saga how did that work out? As for the figures explain to me how a club with under 30 000 members that gets crowds of 10 000 and under to there home games are operating on similar funding to clubs that have triple those numbers and are struggling the numbers the afl state just do not add up !

 

[abcde12345]

Made up Like how all the tenant clubs that helped the afl pay off marvel stadium with terrible stadium deals that lost those clubs millions every year how much debt would gws have ?? if it was not being fully bank rolled buy the afl .

How much debt would any club have if not bankrolled by the AFL? At least half the clubs are unviable by their own merits financially. At least the Northern state clubs serve a purpose in using those funds to expand the player base and reach of the game, which in turn helps provide viability in the short term (national sponsor appeal) and long term (growth of the game).

And how many generations are we talking Brisbane and Sydney have been around almost 40 years not much growth shown with either break even clubs at best!

The Swans are sitting 4th last on the ladder, yet have a higher average home attendance than North, St Kilda, Melbourne and the Bulldogs. Only the Demons sit below them.

Similarly, the Lions have higher average attendances than North. This is after languishing bottom 4 for a decade.

This occurs despite the fact that both the Gabba and SCG have significantly smaller capacities than Docklands Stadium. The availability of GA ticketing is much smaller at the smaller grounds, which obviously has a significant impact on attendances. Swans tickets are also more expensive than the Melbourne counterparts (I believe Lions tickets are roughly equal - not 100% sure on that).

The suns problems go well beyond onfield as has been proven buy ever single sporting franchise ever based on the Gold Coast but none of those failures happened right??

Ah yes, not being able to maintain teams in the incredibly stable and financially powerful A-league and NBL (both sports with MASS APPEAL on the Gold Coast) are a clear indicator that a region cannot support a team. Or are you referring to the rugby league teams that were cut due to the fall out of the SL war? Definitely no extenuating circumstances there.

You realise that Tasmania has had 3 separate teams fold from the NBL right? Or is the Clive Palmer plaything that was GCU the relevant club to discuss here?

The media narrative on sporting club viability on the GC is very shallow. Fact of the matter is, the few teams the GC has had in the tier 1 codes (AFL, NRL, BBL) have all been incredibly poor on-field. Give the Suns a chance at on-field success and the club will flourish.

The afl never committing fraud just like when they were completely honest with asada and wada over the supplements saga how did that work out?

SURELY you can grasp the difference between these situations. There are far more significant implications of fraud than what there were in the doping saga. It would also mean KPMG is in on it because?... Or alternatively they are not fulfilling their duties as auditors.

There are SIGNIFICANT financial and legal ramifications to those allegations. Not being open with a doping agency is not in the same ballpark.

There is also literally no incentive to do so. The doping saga came with extreme negative publicity and damaged the AFL brand. Lying about the distributions to the expansion clubs would have no such incentives.

As for the figures explain to me how a club with under 30 000 members that gets crowds of 10 000 and under to there home games are operating on similar funding to clubs that have triple those numbers and are struggling the numbers the afl state just do not add up !

Do you find this surprising? Are St Kilda averaging crowds over 40k? Same for North? Do Richmond average 100k to a game? Why don't Collingwood and Essendon average crowds of 80k? Where are the 60k members of Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton every game?

They've introduced this thing called a 3 game membership. That means you get access to 3/11 games. Roughly speaking, if you had 100% of your members on 3 game memberships, you would have 4 members for every 1 average attendee.

Giants are also a split market team. This means their memberships are split up between Canberra and Sydney. Obviously, it is unlikely many members from each market would make games at the other market.

These arguments you are raising are all extremely poorly thought out. To what end are you arguing? That Tasmania should have a club? I agree. Why does that come at the expense of a club building something in foreign territory (expanding the game)? It shouldn't, and won't, as long as the AFL has the money to ensure their financial viability.

I am glad the surplus the AFL earns is being spent on expanding the reaches of the game. The alternatives to spend the money on are far more wasteful.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

How much debt would any club have if not bankrolled by the AFL? At least half the clubs are unviable by their own merits financially. At least the Northern state clubs serve a purpose in using those funds to expand the player base and reach of the game, which in turn helps provide viability in the short term (national sponsor appeal) and long term (growth of the game).


The Swans are sitting 4th last on the ladder, yet have a higher average home attendance than North, St Kilda, Melbourne and the Bulldogs. Only the Demons sit below them.

Similarly, the Lions have higher average attendances than North. This is after languishing bottom 4 for a decade.

This occurs despite the fact that both the Gabba and SCG have significantly smaller capacities than Docklands Stadium. The availability of GA ticketing is much smaller at the smaller grounds, which obviously has a significant impact on attendances. Swans tickets are also more expensive than the Melbourne counterparts (I believe Lions tickets are roughly equal - not 100% sure on that).


Ah yes, not being able to maintain teams in the incredibly stable and financially powerful A-league and NBL (both sports with MASS APPEAL on the Gold Coast) are a clear indicator that a region cannot support a team. Or are you referring to the rugby league teams that were cut due to the fall out of the SL war? Definitely no extenuating circumstances there.

You realise that Tasmania has had 3 separate teams fold from the NBL right? Or is the Clive Palmer plaything that was GCU the relevant club to discuss here?

The media narrative on sporting club viability on the GC is very shallow. Fact of the matter is, the few teams the GC has had in the tier 1 codes (AFL, NRL, BBL) have all been incredibly poor on-field. Give the Suns a chance at on-field success and the club will flourish.


SURELY you can grasp the difference between these situations. There are far more significant implications of fraud than what there were in the doping saga. It would also mean KPMG is in on it because?... Or alternatively they are not fulfilling their duties as auditors.

There are SIGNIFICANT financial and legal ramifications to those allegations. Not being open with a doping agency is not in the same ballpark.

There is also literally no incentive to do so. The doping saga came with extreme negative publicity and damaged the AFL brand. Lying about the distributions to the expansion clubs would have no such incentives.


Do you find this surprising? Are St Kilda averaging crowds over 40k? Same for North? Do Richmond average 100k to a game? Why don't Collingwood and Essendon average crowds of 80k? Where are the 60k members of Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton every game?

They've introduced this thing called a 3 game membership. That means you get access to 3/11 games. Roughly speaking, if you had 100% of your members on 3 game memberships, you would have 4 members for every 1 average attendee.

Giants are also a split market team. This means their memberships are split up between Canberra and Sydney. Obviously, it is unlikely many members from each market would make games at the other market.

These arguments you are raising are all extremely poorly thought out. To what end are you arguing? That Tasmania should have a club? I agree. Why does that come at the expense of a club building something in foreign territory (expanding the game)? It shouldn't, and won't, as long as the AFL has the money to ensure their financial viability.

I am glad the surplus the AFL earns is being spent on expanding the reaches of the game. The alternatives to spend the money on are far more wasteful.

mate you do make some valid points On a lot of things I will give you that I wouldn’t wish any club to fold I more pointing out a couple of the major reasons given for the expansion buy the afl crowds,tv ratings growth after 8 years is not anywhere near the levels Pryor predictions were as for the Gold Coast region mate you are strait up ignoring or trying to re write history the point you make about different codes and competitions can only be used to a certain point the fact is every single one has failed on field and off field including the major codes Bears ,suns ,titans You can say they were all unlucky or try to come up with different reasons fact is there is no other region in Australia that has had so many failures you can try to sugarcoat it as much as you want the history is there!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think people overreacted to two awful games from Gold Coast. The last two weeks showed they can be competitive even with 10 of their best players injured. Give it time and a little AFL assistance and they'll succeed.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Wh

I think people overreacted to two awful games from Gold Coast. The last two weeks showed they can be competitive even with 10 of their best players injured. Give it time and a little AFL assistance and they'll succeed.

when they start to retain some of the players they draft with top picks every season I might be slightly convinced as for being competitive it’s obviously an improvement but for that club to move forward at all they need to win games another 2 or 3 seasons in bottom 4 it will be very hard to turn that club around!

 

[Pippen94]

Record low derby crowd today. Dump these losers already.

 

[Professor Knowall]

As I posted in the gameday thread earlier, two Sydney based work colleagues were going to go to the local derby today - only to find that seat tickets prices had doubled to $95, so they ditched that plan in disgust (and no, there were no "free tickets" to be had). Last fortnight we (I was with them for the Pies game) payed $45 for an average seat at Giants Stadium, with the comparatively few GA tickets already sold out. It seems that blatant price gauging and woefully insufficient GA tickets isn't helping the Giants crowds.

The Giants, though, are here to stay.

 

[Pippen94]

As I posted in the gameday thread earlier, two Sydney based work colleagues were going to go to the local derby today - only to find that seat tickets prices had doubled to $95, so they ditched that plan in disgust (and no, there were no "free tickets" to be had). Last fortnight we (I was with them for the Pies game) payed $45 for an average seat at Giants Stadium, with the comparatively few GA tickets already sold out. It seems that blatant price gauging and woefully insufficient GA tickets isn't helping the Giants crowds.

The Giants, though, are here to stay.

Wrong. Stadium empty every week. Problem is lack of fans.

 

[Professor Knowall]

The stadium has been 2/3 full the last 2 games and their fan base is definitely growing (from the 5 games I've attended there). Their far too high ticket pricing deters more fans. And they are not going away - they're an integral part of the AFL strategy for the remarkable grassroots growth of our game in Western Sydney

 

[Pippen94]

The stadium has been 2/3 full the last 2 games and their fan base is definitely growing (from the 5 games I've attended there). Their far too high ticket pricing deters more fans. And they are not going away - they're an integral part of the AFL strategy for the remarkable grassroots growth of our game in Western Sydney

We've heard all the excuses; ticket prices, scheduling, jumping castles out back. Team has no following. Look at the stands & TV ratings. Afl not dumb enough to think game will grow there, gws was just a sell to broadcasters to get most cash. Next deal they're gone - bet on it.

 

[Professor Knowall]

OK - Lets look at the stands - as posted by the Wookie in the crowd thread -

So much for having no fans!

 

[Colonial]

Some more shots.

Crowd was def more Orange than red.

No one is saying it wasn't poor or disappointing.

But with the ridiculous price increase and a 2pm Saturday arvo start.