Vic Clubs take $77m in Pokies revenue

[Bunk Moreland]

Also, funny they only talk about Southport in the article...

https://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au/CA256F800017E8D4/VCGLR/F697E5E701BB5E9ECA257B2E001FEAE5?OpenDocument

Vermont FC: 160 machines
Geelong Combined Leagues Club (GFL, BFL, GDFL): 105
Werribee FC: 85
Northcote Park FC: 85
Mordialloc Sporting Club: 82
Prahran FC: 81
North Ballarat Sports Club: 70
Williamstown FC: 66
Kangaroo Flat Sports Club: 60
Port Melbourne FC: 57
Broadmeadows Sporting Club (Jacana): 55
Hoppers Crossing Sports Club: 55
Ballarat Football League: 54
Hastings FC: 50
Noble Park FC: 50
Lara Sporting Club: 50
Tooradin Sports Club: 46
Maroondah Sports Club (East Ringwood): 44
Warrnambool FC: 40
Sunbury FC: 38
Hamilton Kangaroos: 35
St Albans Sports Club: 35
Warragul Industrials FC: 30
Portland FC: 25

 

[The_Wookie]

Also, funny they only talk about Southport in the article...

they didnt. i added it. None of these clubs is turning 19m from their pokies.

 

[telsor]

Richmond signalled it was going to be getting out of pokies.....but then it went and extended its existing licences

I reckon an Eddie Maguire led Collingwood would have received a more cynical response to what Richmond got away with

Pretty sure the 'signal' was a broad/vague statement about wanting to get rid of them in theory, but needing to get the club's finances into a state where the lost revenue wont be missed first.

Don't know about anyone else, but it struck me as 'like the idea, and when the investment in health/fitness clubs starts to pay off, then we'll look into it', and last I saw, we're still pouring money into those clubs. (in some ways, the pokies are helping to pay for their own replacement).

---------

That said, and as I've said every time this comes up....While I don't like pokies, so long as they're legal, I don't see a huge issue with them being owned by football clubs rather than by Woolworths. Changing ownership is highly unlikely to affect even one problem gambler given that it will probably mean the same machines in the same places (and if they are moved, they probably wont be going where they'll make LESS money, will they?).

Also worth noting that, going by figures in this thread...$2.7BILLION lost in total, of which $77 Million is lost to AFL clubs...That's a drop in the bucket really.

 

[4THAWN]

Really?

pokies are becoming less popular as sports betting grows.

 

[NoobPie]

Also, funny they only talk about Southport in the article...

https://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au/CA256F800017E8D4/VCGLR/F697E5E701BB5E9ECA257B2E001FEAE5?OpenDocument

Vermont FC: 160 machines
Geelong Combined Leagues Club (GFL, BFL, GDFL): 105
Werribee FC: 85
Northcote Park FC: 85
Mordialloc Sporting Club: 82
Prahran FC: 81
North Ballarat Sports Club: 70
Williamstown FC: 66
Kangaroo Flat Sports Club: 60
Port Melbourne FC: 57
Broadmeadows Sporting Club (Jacana): 55
Hoppers Crossing Sports Club: 55
Ballarat Football League: 54
Hastings FC: 50
Noble Park FC: 50
Lara Sporting Club: 50
Tooradin Sports Club: 46
Maroondah Sports Club (East Ringwood): 44
Warrnambool FC: 40
Sunbury FC: 38
Hamilton Kangaroos: 35
St Albans Sports Club: 35
Warragul Industrials FC: 30
Portland FC: 25

Interesting to see how many of these clubs are dominating their respective leagues

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Interesting to see how many of these clubs are dominating their respective leagues

Vermont certainly do.

They’ve long owned one venue, the Wantirna Hill Club, and quietly purchased another a couple of years ago - the Lilydale International. From Collingwood.

A perfect footy pokies deal! Collingwood get a huge pile of cash, Vermont get the pokies cash to ensure they keep paying their players to beat up in other local clubs, and the people playing the pokies? Nothing changes, of course - they wouldn’t even know it’s changed hands.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Let's see now ..... clubs generating revenue from legal activities. Oh, the humanity.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Pretty sure the 'signal' was a broad/vague statement about wanting to get rid of them in theory, but needing to get the club's finances into a state where the lost revenue wont be missed first.

Don't know about anyone else, but it struck me as 'like the idea, and when the investment in health/fitness clubs starts to pay off, then we'll look into it', and last I saw, we're still pouring money into those clubs. (in some ways, the pokies are helping to pay for their own replacement).

---------

That said, and as I've said every time this comes up....While I don't like pokies, so long as they're legal, I don't see a huge issue with them being owned by football clubs rather than by Woolworths. Changing ownership is highly unlikely to affect even one problem gambler given that it will probably mean the same machines in the same places (and if they are moved, they probably wont be going where they'll make LESS money, will they?).

Also worth noting that, going by figures in this thread...$2.7BILLION lost in total, of which $77 Million is lost to AFL clubs...That's a drop in the bucket really.

Woolies advised a couple of weeks ago they are getting out of the liquor and pokies business. As the countrys biggest pokies operator, it will be interesting to see what impact this sale has on the market for AFL clubs looking to sell out too.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Woolies advised a couple of weeks ago they are getting out of the liquor and pokies business. As the countrys biggest pokies operator, it will be interesting to see what impact this sale has on the market for AFL clubs looking to sell out too.

Still will own about 15% of the new group when its launched on the ASX next year after their de-merger

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Still will own about 15% of the new group when its launched on the ASX next year after their de-merger

I know, but it will be interesting how long that lasts - the holier than pr stuff has already started. Fwiw surprised on the liquor, as they have spent a truckload building that up (a lot of the bolt ons were ex clients of mine)

 

[NoobPie]

Woolies advised a couple of weeks ago they are getting out of the liquor and pokies business. As the countrys biggest pokies operator, it will be interesting to see what impact this sale has on the market for AFL clubs looking to sell out too.

In Victoria there are essentially two separate markets - "private" and "clubs"

The AFL clubs can only sell their licences to other clubs

 

[Ned_Flanders]

In Victoria there are essentially two separate markets - "private" and "clubs"

The AFL clubs can only sell their licences to other clubs

When did that come in? Previously the difference was just on the tax treatment of the operator (which is why you had private owners leasing their machines to clubs who could operate them under the lower tax treatment)

 

[NoobPie]

The previous duopolistic system of the two gaming operators was changed in 2009/10 to a system where hotels and clubs directly acquired licences through an auction process (though clubs with existing machines were able to maintain them through a Pre-Auction Club Offer (PACO))

Combined, PACO and the auction raised $980 million from the 27 300 entitlements that were allocated. Hotel operators paid $546 million for their 13 750 entitlements, all of which were purchased at auction. Club operators paid a total of $434 million for the remaining 13 550: $366 million at PACO and $68 million at auction

The split was roughly 50/50 between clubs and hotels. Not fully across it but there has been an extension/allocation process for clubs which most of the AFL clubs have taken up to extent their entitlements into the early 2030s.

As far as I am aware there is still a distinction between a "club operators entitlement" and a "hotel operators entitlement" which would prevent the selling of entitlements from clubs to hotels

Gaming machine entitlements

Gaming machine entitlement information for gaming venues in Victoria, part of the Gaming Licensing Program.

www.justice.vic.gov.au

The allocation process will at all times be subject to the Act and instruments under the Act, including:

• regional or municipal caps, and
• permissible percentages of club/hotel entitlements.

Also, what is interesting, is that clubs that sought extensions are not permitted to sell their entitlements until 2022 unless you are selling the venue as well

On 21 November 2017 the Minister for Consumer Affairs, Gaming and Liquor Regulation (Minister) determined Transfer Rules under the Gambling Regulation Act 2003, which were published on the same day in the Victorian Government Special Gazette No:S395. These Rules can be accessed here.

These Rules impose a prohibition on the transfer of new entitlements following the Minister’s allocation and until six months prior to the commencement of the new entitlements on 16 August 2022. This prohibition is necessary to prevent speculative purchasing of new entitlements. The prohibition will be lifted six months prior to August 2022 to allow for a seamless transition from current to new entitlement regime where venue operators may need to buy/sell new entitlements due to a change in circumstances since the allocation. The prohibition does not apply to the transfer of new entitlements where the transfer occurs as part of a sale of a gaming venue.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The previous duopolistic system of the two gaming operators was changed in 2009/10 to a system where hotels and clubs directly acquired licences through an auction process (though clubs with existing machines were able to maintain them through a Pre-Auction Club Offer (PACO))



The split was roughly 50/50 between clubs and hotels. Not fully across it but there has been an extension/allocation process for clubs which most of the AFL clubs have taken up to extent their entitlements into the early 2030s.

As far as I am aware there is still a distinction between a "club operators entitlement" and a "hotel operators entitlement" which would prevent the selling of entitlements from clubs to hotels

Gaming machine entitlements

Gaming machine entitlement information for gaming venues in Victoria, part of the Gaming Licensing Program.

www.justice.vic.gov.au

Also, what is interesting, is that clubs that sought extensions are not permitted to sell their entitlements until 2022 unless you are selling the venue as well

Thanks

Fwiw most are offloading the machines with the venue. Outside rare cases like the Bentleigh Club, the financials of running the venue sans machines isn't as attractive

 

[Rob]

$2.7b is an incredible number, nearly $500 for every single Victorian per year. I assume the vast majority wouldn't put a cent into one in any given year (either through being too young/old/incapacitated or simply don't like them much), and it becomes thousands in losses for every actual player.

And just from reading bigfooty, I gather the pokies are concentrated more in lower income areas. Astonishing.

 

[Gigantor]

The Bulldogs have just announced that they have finalised the sale of their last 65 machines, meaning they are now completely pokie free.
Great news from the club representing the western suburbs of Melbourne.
In the meantime, at least one AFL club domiciled in Melbourne's leafy Eastern suburbs continues to make a small fortune from fleecing the impoverished people of the melbourne's outer Western suburbs.

 

[telsor]

The Bulldogs have just announced that they have finalised the sale of their last 65 machines, meaning they are now completely pokie free.
Great news from the club representing the western suburbs of Melbourne.
In the meantime, at least one AFL club domiciled in Melbourne's leafy Eastern suburbs continues to make a small fortune from fleecing the impoverished people of the melbourne's outer Western suburbs.

"leafy Eastern suburbs"
"impoverished people of the melbourne's outer Western suburbs"

Have you ever been to Melbourne?

 

[Our Game]

The Bulldogs have just announced that they have finalised the sale of their last 65 machines, meaning they are now completely pokie free.
Great news from the club representing the western suburbs of Melbourne.
In the meantime, at least one AFL club domiciled in Melbourne's leafy Eastern suburbs continues to make a small fortune from fleecing the impoverished people of the melbourne's outer Western suburbs.

Total disgrace from Kennetts supposed "family" whatever that means Club.Still the two faced politician!

 

[Freomaniac]

More than $77m was lost in machines owned by Victorian AFL clubs during the year. Hawthorn had the greatest share making just under $24.7m from its 165 machines at various premises.

https://www.watoday.com.au/business/companies/afl-clubs-fill-boots-with-pokies-cash-as-losses-hit-2-7bn-20190726-p52b1z.html …



In addition the Lions took in 16.1m too.
Southport in the QAFL took in $19.1m.

In the NRL,

Canterbury Leagues took in $75.7m in gaming revenue on their own, Panthers took in $66.6m and Parra leagues took in $45m.

lookin' at that graph, that is a significant Amount of .

Saying that most of the SANFL clubs survive on pokies too.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The Bulldogs have just announced that they have finalised the sale of their last 65 machines, meaning they are now completely pokie free.
Great news from the club representing the western suburbs of Melbourne.
In the meantime, at least one AFL club domiciled in Melbourne's leafy Eastern suburbs continues to make a small fortune from fleecing the impoverished people of the melbourne's outer Western suburbs.

Dingley is a tip. A literal tip. Nothing leafy about it.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Carlton are in the stages of exiting from Pokies Machines revenue (fingers crossed in the next 12 months)

Awful, soul destroying machines.

 

[Gigantor]

Dingley is a tip. A literal tip. Nothing leafy about it.

Let us put the question to all our Melbourne friends.
Would you view Dingley as being part of the Eastern suburbs?

It's an interesting aspect of these sorts of conversations that all of a sudden a place like Melton can be viewed as being on par with Hawthorn and environs, as if both the geographic and socio-economic divides have been bridged in one fell swoop.
And this is being done by residents of Melbourne!

I'll make a point I have made here many times, it is not a coincidence that Hawthorn and environs does NOT have any pokies, none whatsoever, while a club called Hawthorn, earns tens of millions of dollars per annum by placing hundreds of pokies on the opposite side of the divide.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Let us put the question to all our Melbourne friends.
Would you view Dingley as being part of the Eastern suburbs?

It's an interesting aspect of these sorts of conversations that all of a sudden a place like Melton can be viewed as being on par with Hawthorn and environs, as if both the geographic and socio-economic divides have been bridged in one fell swoop.
And this is being done by residents of Melbourne!

I'll make a point I have made here many times, it is not a coincidence that Hawthorn and environs does NOT have any pokies, none whatsoever, while a club called Hawthorn, earns tens of millions of dollars per annum by placing hundreds of pokies on the opposite side of the divide.

Hawthorn isn't based in Hawthorn and hasn't been for years. It's Dingley/Mulgrave

 

[Trucker Tiger]

Carlton are in the stages of exiting from Pokies Machines revenue (fingers crossed in the next 12 months)

Awful, soul destroying machines.

Good move. Maybe think about ditching from your Board anyone member who profits from them. Start with people with the surname Mathieson.

 

[Gigantor]

Hawthorn isn't based in Hawthorn and hasn't been for years. It's Dingley/Mulgrave

Of course.
That's exactly the point!