Player Watch Charlie Dixon Part 2

[Macca19]

Given how s**t Ryder, Trengove, Marshall, Frampton, Butcher, Howard and a host of others have gone attempting to play key forward in Ken's useless system. It is hard to argue Chuck is at fault.

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Nah, thats a cop out. In 2 of the 4 years he's been here we've had a top 7 scoring team. Last year we were too defensive as an entire team so scoring was down. This is the only year where we've truly had a haphazard forward line.

 

[crafty_bernardo]

Pathetic forward system aside, his goal kicking shouldn't be excused.

1.1
2.2
1.1
1.2
1.2

vs. in the SANFL

5.2
3.1
3.2

 

[El_Scorcho]

That's nice, but what does his last year at Hawthorn have do with things?


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Fine, in 2014 Sydney finished top of the ladder

 

[El_Scorcho]

Nah, thats a cop out. In 2 of the 4 years he's been here we've had a top 7 scoring team. Last year we were too defensive as an entire team so scoring was down. This is the only year where we've truly had a haphazard forward line.

I'm sorry Macca but the bolded belongs in the unpopular opinions thread. Our forward line has been woefully haphazard since Tredrea retired.

The idea that he's had half a good season is something I totally disagree with. He's had at least 1.5 good seasons with the first half of 2016 and all of 2017.

2016 we were an immensely talented side that should have been winning a flag but our criminal list management f*** up with the rucks and our s**t forward setup meant we missed the finals. We scored moderately above average that year because we had Robbie Gray and a motivated gun Chad Wingard playing up there. He still managed to average more than 2 goals a game for the first half of the season before the niggling ankle injury limited the 2nd half.

2017 he was undeniably good.

2018, anyone blaming the players wasn't watching.

and then he broke his leg.

People can piss and moan about how much we gave up for him and how much we're paying him a year, but unless Ken Stinkley decides to develop a KPF between now and his eventual departure in 2034, paying through the nose for an AFL level KPF is our lot in life. Get used to it.

 

[Work Hardery]

Is it too much to ask to have a Dixon and Marshall/Frampton combination up forward? I mean, how is Dixon supposed to compete against 2 and sometimes 3 opponents every time the ball's kicked his way? And that's not even mentioning the illegal attention he gets from defenders as well. Worst yet, when Dixon's off the ground we're left with a small/mid sized forward who we seamlessly bomb it long to, leading to an intercept mark being taken 9 times out of 10. How many ******* times does this happen? This stubborn campaigner of a coach and his fetish for small forwards is killing the club.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I love Charlie's attitude and everything about the way he goes about it. He's the type of guy I'd want lining up next to me in a game of football. But the free pass he gets on this board for his glaring deficiencies is quite staggering. He's a key player in our team and his failure to reach his potential as a footballer is one of the key reasons why we haven't reached our potential as a team.

Please provide a list of all of the key forwards who have 'reached their potential' under Ken Hinkley and Nathan Bassett.

 

[edgie]

So all that stuff I mentioned, you think that leads to the perfect environment for a forward to thrive?

I think if he were good enough he would perform in spite of it.

Remember what we gave up to get him. He should be good enough. He isn't delivering. Go back in time and would you be ok with him being a 30 goal a year player?


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[El_Scorcho]

I think if he were good enough he would perform in spite of it.

Remember what we gave up to get him. He should be good enough. He isn't delivering. Go back in time and would you be ok with him being a 30 goal a year player?

What we gave up was the price every single established KPF with Dixon's pedigree will cost, and we'll have to keep paying that every time we need a new one because we refuse to develop them.

And every single one of them will suffer a significant performance dip in a Hinkley coached side. That's the world we live in now.

 

[edgie]

Dixon didn't have a good first half of 2016 ffs. Some of those goals were against Brisbane, Gold Coast, Asadendon, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne...

If he was the big Texan he'd be considered ultimate captain flat track.


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[edgie]

What we gave up was the price every single established KPF with Dixon's pedigree will cost, and we'll have to keep paying that every time we need a new one because we refuse to develop them.

And every single one of them will suffer a significant performance dip in a Hinkley coached side. That's the world we live in now.

So you give zero to the view that if he were good enough he would perform in spite of it? He's completely helpless and beholden to the actions of people in the box?


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[Macca19]

I'm sorry Macca but the bolded belongs in the unpopular opinions thread. Our forward line has been woefully haphazard since Tredrea retired.

Yeah nah. 13, 14, 15 our forward structure was clear, our forward movement was clear. We can complain that Butcher didn't get much of a go, but it doesn't really matter. Our forward line was clear. It's been a bit muddied since then but even in the "Lade years" we still had a clear forward structure, it just wasn't very good. This is the only year where our forward line feels like "spin a wheel in the selection committee to see who plays there this week" followed by "spin a wheel in selection committee to see how we want to enter the forward line this week".

The idea that he's had half a good season is something I totally disagree with. He's had at least 1.5 good seasons with the first half of 2016 and all of 2017.

2016 we were an immensely talented side that should have been winning a flag but our criminal list management f*** up with the rucks and our s**t forward setup meant we missed the finals. We scored moderately above average that year because we had Robbie Gray and a motivated gun Chad Wingard playing up there. He still managed to average more than 2 goals a game for the first half of the season before the niggling ankle injury limited the 2nd half.

2017 he was undeniably good.

2018, anyone blaming the players wasn't watching.

and then he broke his leg.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this bit

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Pathetic forward system aside, his goal kicking shouldn't be excused.

1.1
2.2
1.1
1.2
1.2

vs. in the SANFL

5.2
3.1
3.2

He doesn't have to run around the whole ******* field in the SANFL and he's also not having to wrestle against three defenders in the SANFL. Thats why his kicking is better, he's not doing it while exhausted.

Nevermind that the forward line in the SANFL games also includes Billy Frampton and Ladhams/Hayes. With Marshall wandering around as well.

Strange how people have been asking for that support in the AFL.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Yeah nah. 13, 14, 15 our forward structure was clear, our forward movement was clear. We can complain that Butcher didn't get much of a go, but it doesn't really matter. Our forward line was clear. It's been a bit muddied since then but even in the "Lade years" we still had a clear forward structure, it just wasn't very good. This is the only year where our forward line feels like "spin a wheel in the selection committee to see who plays there this week" followed by "spin a wheel in selection committee to see how we want to enter the forward line this week".

In 13 and 14 we relied heavily on transition scoring and Wingard and Schulz dobbing them from tight angles on a regular basis. It wasn't a functional or robust forward setup and I was blabbing on about it all year calling for another KPF to be selected so we'd have a plan B.

We didn't have a plan B and we blew a golden opportunity at a qualifying final.

There hasn't been a single year that we've maintained a consistent structure of talls and smalls, it's always moved around, and it's done so because we don't really have a plan for what we're doing inside 50 or how we're going to get the ball there. It just sort of happens if we're playing a side we can simply outclass, or doesn't happen if we're playing anyone else.

 

[Pappagallo]

Given how s**t Ryder, Trengove, Marshall, Frampton, Butcher, Howard and a host of others have gone attempting to play key forward in Ken's useless system. It is hard to argue Chuck is at fault.

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It’s partly this but Charlie’s goalkicking is just awful now. I have absolutely no confidence in his ability to score, it seems like a spin of the big wheel every time.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Dixon didn't have a good first half of 2016 ffs. Some of those goals were against Brisbane, Gold Coast, Asadendon, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne...

If he was the big Texan he'd be considered ultimate captain flat track.

"He didn't have a good first half of the season, he only kicked goals against these sides which are too numerous for me to list without utilising an ellipsis". He was averaging 2.6 goals a game up until round 10. This is ridiculous revisionist history.

So you give zero to the view that if he were good enough he would perform in spite of it? He's completely helpless and beholden to the actions of people in the box?

If he was a generational talent like Robbie Gray or Lance Franklin, yeah, he might. Outside of that? Sorry who else is doing what you're describing here?

I'd absolutely love for you to give me a list of potential trade targets at the time of similar value who would have performed better over the journey than Charlie has given how terrible our forward line strategy has been for his entire time here.

 

[El_Scorcho]

It’s partly this but Charlie’s goalkicking is just awful now. I have absolutely no confidence in his ability to score, it seems like a spin of the big wheel every time.

So is everyone who plays in the forward half of the ground apart from Kane Farrell. Are we just unlucky or is there something fundamentally we're doing wrong throughout the entire team?

 

[El_Scorcho]

People used to laugh at me when I told them that John Butcher had shown plenty to show he could be an AFL quality KPF, and I said that the system and the club was letting him down.

Now we're arguing Charlie Dixon isn't good enough. And Todd Marshall isn't good enough. And Billy Frampton isn't good enough.

If Charlie Dixon had been traded literally anywhere else, including the likes of Carlton, he'd be around the AA squad every year. Instead he's at Port where his confidence is gone and he's got the yips, just like every other KPF we've had over the past 4 years.

 

[edgie]

"He didn't have a good first half of the season, he only kicked goals against these sides which are too numerous for me to list without utilising an ellipsis". He was averaging 2.6 goals a game up until round 10. This is ridiculous revisionist history.



If he was a generational talent like Robbie Gray or Lance Franklin, yeah, he might. Outside of that? Sorry who else is doing what you're describing here?

I'd absolutely love for you to give me a list of potential trade targets at the time of similar value who would have performed better over the journey than Charlie has given how terrible our forward line strategy has been for his entire time here.

Just about every good key forward has kicked a lot of goals in bad years. Dixon hasn't even hit the lofty heights of Josh Bruce.

Unless you are suggesting most teams have a generational talent getting about at any given time? Kind of devalues the term.


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[edgie]

Butcher could have been a good KPF, as can Frampton. They were or are good enough.

Dixon is a starting forward sure but not a star forward. I've seen enough to say that unless he received serious specialist help.

He has no craft or finesse, no deft usage of his body, can't lead well enough, can't stick grabs and can't make the right decisions on how to kick.

He's big and strong and quick off the mark and can sometimes stick a grab and a nice long leg unless it's a set shot and can wrestle, but they are all kind of basic qualities.

On paper Dixon has qualities similar to the G-Train, but something tells me if you were to swap him in to their 2004 side he wouldn't have kicked the tonne.


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[El_Scorcho]

Just about every good key forward has kicked a lot of goals in bad years. Dixon hasn't even hit the lofty heights of Josh Bruce.

Unless you are suggesting most t a have a generational talent getting about in any given time? Kind of devalues the term.

Josh Bruce doesn't play in a Hinkley/Bassett forward line, edgie.

It doesn't matter how bad or good a team is, it matters how the forward line sets up. Jack Riewoldt won a Coleman playing for a horrendous Richmond side because they set absolutely everything up around getting him the ball in space as often as possible.

We on the other hand don't set up to advantage any of our forwards anywhere ever. We don't play 2nd and 3rd KPFs as a foil. We don't play Dixon with other key forwards regularly enough to build up any sort of chemistry. We don't move the ball with any sort of system so that Charlie can get into a groove. We don't move intelligently or make space for Charlie to lead into. We sit the ball on his head and expect him to take contested marks against multiple opponents.

Under a coach that valued forward craft, or structure, or consistency of selection, or natural goalscoring, or had any interest in the forward 50 whatsoever, Dixon would be a good to very good AFL level key forward.

 

[Pappagallo]

So is everyone who plays in the forward half of the ground apart from Kane Farrell. Are we just unlucky or is there something fundamentally we're doing wrong throughout the entire team?

We aren’t unlucky. We have poor skills and it goes well beyond our goalkicking.

Dixon’s kicking is exceptionally bad over and above angles and all the “excessive running” for want of a better term. It is truly anyone’s guess where his kicks are going to go right now. He needs to stay back with X and work on it.

As for the others well Westhoff has been headnicked for a decade and the Grays can’t kick more than 35m. Not sure we’re fixing any of that.

We need to look to the future now. Some of the younger guys are our most skilful i.e. Farrell, Rozee, Amon, Butters, Houston but unfortunately none of them are KPFs. I reckon Frampton’s action is solid so there’s something to work with there (but his development has been stunted) and Marshall seems to be on track to become Hoff II.

We’re in a bit of a pickle.

 

[edgie]

It isn't all the way we set up, that doesn't excuse his inability to time his leads, get separation on his opponents, not being able to use his body to advantage with those little deft bumps and touches, concrete hands, running straight under the ball rather than picking his moment to go (back to lead timing).

Like, do others not see it? It isn't all on Hinkley footy.

Bad kicking is his issue too. If he wanted he could take responsibility to improve it in his own time. This is Port though and work life balance says that he'd rather travel out to the middle of nowhere on his day off to pick up some more project cars.


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[Schulzenfest]

Set shot kicking for goal is all in a player's head. It's essentially a simple skill which your average AFL player could and would execute 9 times out of 10 in a non-pressured environment. Executing it with tens of thousands of people watching and focusing on you isn't about skill execution, it's about confidence. Our club has sapped Dixon of his.

Dixon was an excellent kick for goal at the Gold Coast. 41.15 in his last season for them. Hinkley and Bassett ruined him.

 

[Capital Power]

Dixon didn't have a good first half of 2016 ffs. Some of those goals were against Brisbane, Gold Coast, Asadendon, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne...

If he was the big Texan he'd be considered ultimate captain flat track.

There are some polarised opinions in this thread, some of them mine. But comparing Charlie to Tex?? C'mon man...

 

[bringbackbucky]

Charlie will be back in this week. Wasn't droppped for form...