Injury Billy Longer Taking a Break

[Strahany]

Don’t agree. If anything it’s you who are trying to be too broad in your interpretation that pp guidelines in any way are there to react to injuries.

You could make an argument that there are no guidelines on injury impact to teams and pps so the afl have free hand to do what they want in exceptional circumstances but there is zero support for injuries allowing pps within the current guidelines themselves

The idea of that rule is to prevent a low-finishing anomaly across 1-2 seasons from granting an unnecessary priority pick. e.g a team with regular finals finishes landing in the bottom 4 for 1-2 years. This team would then receive a top end pick, and use it to draft/trade to improve their list, which will be finals-bound once their injuries return.

We’re not in that category. We won’t “bounce back” after this season because, not only were we not a finals-quality team prior to these injuries, such that their return will launch us up the ladder; these are looking to be permanent injuries which will affect our list going forward, and not exclusively within these 1-2 years. This is the very purpose for priority picks; whether the AFL grants one or not is another question.

 

[majortinkle]

The idea of that rule is to prevent a low-finishing anomaly across 1-2 seasons from granting an unnecessary priority pick. e.g a team with regular finals finishes landing in the bottom 4 for 1-2 years. This team would then receive a top end pick, and use it to draft/trade to improve their list, which will be finals-bound once their injuries return.

We’re not in that category. We won’t “bounce back” after this season because, not only were we not a finals-quality team prior to these injuries, such that their return will launch us up the ladder; these are looking to be permanent injuries which will affect our list going forward, and not exclusively within these 1-2 years. This is the very purpose for priority picks; whether the AFL grants one or not is another question.

Not disagreeing that our injuries aren't permanent but having permanent injuries is nothing to do with getting pps according to the guidelines, it's about performance and poor performance impacted by injury will count against us rather than for us.

Your personal view is that the guidelines will differentiate between permanent and temporary injury. That's a guess - they could equally take the view that we'll replace those players next year so there is no difference between longevity of injury.

We've been bottom 4 on 3 occasions in the last 10 years, once in 5 years assuming we at least hold station for the rest of the year - unless they change their pp guidelines to be about players lost to injury, or just disregard their guidelines, we have zero chance of a pp

 

[The_Steadier]

The idea of that rule is to prevent a low-finishing anomaly across 1-2 seasons from granting an unnecessary priority pick. e.g a team with regular finals finishes landing in the bottom 4 for 1-2 years. This team would then receive a top end pick, and use it to draft/trade to improve their list, which will be finals-bound once their injuries return.

We’re not in that category. We won’t “bounce back” after this season because, not only were we not a finals-quality team prior to these injuries, such that their return will launch us up the ladder; these are looking to be permanent injuries which will affect our list going forward, and not exclusively within these 1-2 years. This is the very purpose for priority picks; whether the AFL grants one or not is another question.

Correct but the IMPACT of our horror injuries (which were by causes we couldnt foreesee or control), hasn't put us in genuine, undeniable basketcase/rabble territory.

Based on who they have and haven't (officially) awarded PP's to since the rules came in- we would have needed to have finished rock bottom-ish for the last 2 years PLUS had the injuries we've had to be ANY chance of a PP pick.

We're a game out of the 8 with a handful of games left in the year.
The AFL would be inviting an avalanche of future PP claims if they even considered one for us.

PPs are now viewed well and truly by the AFL to be a last resort to prop up a genuine basketcase after all other measures have failed.

The AFL are far more interested in assisting persistently struggling teams with other measures.
Ie:
*unofficial PPs in the form of overly generous RFA compo.
*paying for coaches (eg roos 2mill a year dees)
*installing quality line coaches and execs by making it clear that HQ will owe them one if they go work at strugglers (eg us with lade, ratts, lethers, slater etc)
*setting up sponsors
*favourable draws (eg us)

All those things and more- the AFL do, and will continue to do way before any talk of PPs and their rules becomes relevant.

We have been crap- but are still years of poor performance away from being basketcase, therefore it absolutely doesn't matter one bit what the words of the PP rules say- they simply do not even enter into the conversation until you're a total rabble.

The bombers havent won a single final in what 15 or more years- yes theyve been crap... but not a fitzroy level basketcase.

Same with the power, no finals in 4 of last 5 years- crap but no basketcase.

 

[StCicatriz]

you are right but should it be a priority pick or a compensation pick for three possibly 4 players lost to the game for reasons out side of our control ... i mean 1 you can call bad luck but 4 off the back of losing Koby and Dempster early due to similar issues in previous years thats a fair whack without my Saints bias i reckon any club copping that does deserve some sort of compo ... maybe not the first round pick that we were hoping for should we have finished second last but we could do with a bit of a leg up

this.

roberton: Delisted free agent, AA defender in his prime
mccartin: pick 1 forward
koby stevens: inside mid, traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick
longer: ruckman, earlish traded for a 2nd rounder.
pierce: ruckman, late pick.

stuv might join that list, we will have to see.

we can't foresee that stuff. club is at no fault either.

 

[majortinkle]

this.

roberton: Delisted free agent, AA defender in his prime
mccartin: pick 1 forward
koby stevens: inside mid, traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick
longer: ruckman, earlish traded for a 2nd rounder.
pierce: ruckman, late pick.

stuv might join that list, we will have to see.

we can't foresee that stuff. club is at no fault either.

It might be a nice idea if humans weren't involved with list management, but they are so you'd be asking for trouble.

If pps were given out for injuries no player would ever retire for any other reason.

 

[Indie Rock]

Correct but the IMPACT of our horror injuries (which were by causes we couldnt foreesee or control), hasn't put us in genuine, undeniable basketcase/rabble territory.

Based on who they have and haven't (officially) awarded PP's to since the rules came in- we would have needed to have finished rock bottom-ish for the last 2 years PLUS had the injuries we've had to be ANY chance of a PP pick.

We're a game out of the 8 with a handful of games left in the year.
The AFL would be inviting an avalanche of future PP claims if they even considered one for us.

PPs are now viewed well and truly by the AFL to be a last resort to prop up a genuine basketcase after all other measures have failed.

The AFL are far more interested in assisting persistently struggling teams with other measures.
Ie:
*unofficial PPs in the form of overly generous RFA compo.
*paying for coaches (eg roos 2mill a year dees)
*installing quality line coaches and execs by making it clear that HQ will owe them one if they go work at strugglers (eg us with lade, ratts, lethers, slater etc)
*setting up sponsors
*favourable draws (eg us)

All those things and more- the AFL do, and will continue to do way before any talk of PPs and their rules becomes relevant.

We have been crap- but are still years of poor performance away from being basketcase, therefore it absolutely doesn't matter one bit what the words of the PP rules say- they simply do not even enter into the conversation until you're a total rabble.

The bombers havent won a single final in what 15 or more years- yes theyve been crap... but not a fitzroy level basketcase.

Same with the power, no finals in 4 of last 5 years- crap but no basketcase.

Agree with this.

Given our run home this year we likely finish around 12th on the ladder. So even though it's not been a great year we have only had 1 year in the bottom 4 out of the past 4.

A 2020 draw similar to this year would be good.

I think the club talk of a priority pick is more to put pressure on the AFL not to award one to Gold Coast and hence affect our position in the draft.

 

[plugger66]

Even with billy likely to retire there is no way we are getting a pp.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

It might be a nice idea if humans weren't involved with list management, but they are so you'd be asking for trouble.

If pps were given out for injuries no player would ever retire for any other reason.

i dont think that would be a problem .. the proviso would be that a contracted player has an injury that prevents them playing the game ever again the AFL doctors would assess that injury to determine if that player is entitled to a payout from their injury .. if the AFL deem its warranted for a payout then if that is compounded for multiple players i should but open to some sort of compo for the club... even if its as simple as an extra rookie spot or a increase on the bidding points for the club through the draft .. it doesnt need to be a first round pick or anything

 

[PoppedCorn]

Get better billy
Work injuries are no fun
Ongoing issues with an injury i know a bit about...no fun and very very frustrating

 

[saintspremiers]

Is he out of contract?

Surely we will delist him end of this year

 

[Sunsaint]

Is he out of contract?

Surely we will delist him end of this year

he was out of contract last year and clearly on the table with no interest
we horse traded with hickey who was contracted
Longer was not signed up till much later

 

[Sainteric]

Assume that means the end for Billy at the Saints. No contract for next year. Pierce probably gone too. Sad way to end it, didn't get a good run at it this year.

that leaves Alabakis if Marshall goes down. Is Pierce worst that what we will pick up in the trade period?

 

[Indie Rock]

that leaves Alabakis if Marshall goes down. Is Pierce worst that what we will pick up in the trade period?

Yeah.