News 2019 St Kilda Media Thread

[StCicatriz]

Well the club told Watters some home truth about his performance and has never been in the AFL since.

Doesn't want to be. Never applied. Didn't seek it out. Didn't follow up offers.

 

[hayes]

Whenever their was an answer that suited him his memory was very good, but for any question that wasn’t 100% in his favour “oh my memory is a bit....” or “what I can remember...”. Clearly a goose just trying to blame his failures on us rather than himself.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Riewoldt having an interesting discussion on SEN about the Watters podcast:

- Challenges Watters' culture bashing, particularly re the school girl and Watters' lack of examples
- Challenges the interviewing from Ralph and McFarlane
- Challenges that the top 5 players were lauded too much. Says that role players were celebrated plenty
- Had/still has a good relationship with Watters
- Watters accurate re salary cap mess
- Watters accurate with rebuild transparency issue
- Believes that if we'd got a flag, the club would obviously be looked at differently from that era
- Acknowledges that the next coach after Ross was always going to have a tough time living up to the way they saw him.

 

[VDS66]

Good insight and it was a RTB trait to have an us and them type culture within the playing group and with the outside.

The club admin at the time was shocking as well.

Hurn and WCE better? Results GF's and flags would bear that out.

From what we see nowdays the admin is much better, and our playing group very close and seems pretty happy.

And what you heard is a reason we want Ratten and not Lyon back at our club.

I suspect the player is Cripps?

Anyway the talk of a clique isn't surprising as I have heard the same from an ex player.

Also confirms my suspicions regarding Roos leadership and a possible failure to develop successors. Hence the leadership vacuum once he left.

 

[Sully111]

I have zero interest in anything Scott Watters has to say

 

[StCicatriz]

Hey Saints fans,

Just had a listen to the Watters podcast and got to say I find he comes across as arrogant and not at all likeable. I know a podcast is hardly a good way to judge someone's character but listening to that I can definitely see why so many were rumoured to dislike him.

Anyways listening to him go on about the "bad culture" at St Kilda but not really expand on why I thought I'd share a conversation I overheard between a former Saints player and Eagles supporter at one of our training sessions. (I'm not the type of person to talk to footballers but I just happened to be near this bloke who obviously had no such qualms.)

This player spent time at St Kilda under Watters so here is a brief summary on what was essentially said (not verbatim) if you're interested:

- Didn't rate Watters and that Simpson was a far, far superior coach
- A lot of unstableness with the clubs admin and hierarchy-had a negative effect on the environment and affected the players. Wasn't a particularly happy place to be at the time.
(Nothing groundbreaking there, but the next stuff is interesting)
- Cliques within the playing group. Basically the core players from the RL era were their own group and then there was everyone else.
- Felt the leadership from Roo was lacking in certain aspects*

*Ill elaborate a bit here. He said how great a leader Hurn was because of how every Eagle player on the list felt valued, included and invested in (no matter their ability). Apparently at St Kilda the "fringe players" were largely ignored and this created a fractured playing group. Wasn't happy with how he and others were treated by the senior players.

Please don't think I've posted this to gloat about how great the Eagles are and how poor the Saints were at that time - I just wanted to give a reason on why Scott Watters may have thought St Kilda had a poor culture.

FWIW I definitely believe Dal Santo that there is a lot more to it than what Watters said. Without knowing all the details my guess would be that part of Watters undoing was trying to address these cliques at the club but got it very wrong in doing so- not helped by coming across as an arrogant ****.

Nailed it! Great post.

There's fault on both sides. Unfortunately there's parallels between GTs podcast and Watters.

He had the right idea just implemented it extremely poorly by the sounds of it. Richo had a better crack at dissolving that issue.

Unfortunately I think it's all a symptom of the ross era and the lack of strong leadership at the club.

It's funny freo now have similar issues. Poor player behaviour. Players backed in to the hilt as long as they're one of the experienced players. Lesser players thrown to the way side.

 

[Ads734]

I have zero interest in anything Scott Watters has to say

To be fair he did give the AFL a spray for the hypiracritic dealings with gambling corporations and I've got to say I completely agree

 

[StCicatriz]

Just read that.



I mean, he would say that, wouldn’t he? He was responsible for creating it. I don’t know who’s right but I don’t think those quotes from Dal mean anything at all.

We literally had stuv stand in front of the entire player group and make video for members and supporters stating they will change their behaviour and it was going to stop from now.

There clearly was an issue with player behaviour in the ranks. We've gone along way since then but I don't think dal can say there were no issues when there clearly were.

 

[Sully111]

To be fair he did give the AFL a spray for the hypiracritic dealings with gambling corporations and I've got to say I completely agree

That's fair enough, but as far as St Kilda goes, i look forward to a time where he's nothing more than a distant irrelevant memory. He's pretty much there for me now.

 

[joop]

Nailed it! Great post.

There's fault on both sides. Unfortunately there's parallels between GTs podcast and Watters.

He had the right idea just implemented it extremely poorly by the sounds of it. Richo had a better crack at dissolving that issue.

Unfortunately I think it's all a symptom of the ross era and the lack of strong leadership at the club.

It's funny freo now have similar issues. Poor player behaviour. Players backed in to the hilt as long as they're one of the experienced players. Lesser players thrown to the way side.

Theres parallels between every single coach that was sacked.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Just read that.



I mean, he would say that, wouldn’t he? He was responsible for creating it. I don’t know who’s right but I don’t think those quotes from Dal mean anything at all.

A 'poor culture' is such a lazy term... What exactly was Watters' referring to?

Was it players getting up to no good? The club that Watters had come from had just gone through continual drink driving scandals. His original club had seen a champion fall due to drug addiction.

It certainly wasn't a poor culture in regards to performance... coming off 2 GF's and a near finals appearance (after a 1-5 start... probably partly due to Lenny doing his knee in round 2).

Is it the party culture that we've apparently had since the 70's?

The only poor culture that clearly see as an issue was off field in the admin offices. Weak/poor/non existent leadership that saw them let a great coach walk. Then appointed an incompetent coach on the recommendation of an arch rival.

Is it any wonder that Pelchen was able to sell them the dream of building the club without them doing due diligence on what he had actually achieved and how his approach would impact the rest of the club.

 

[VDS66]

The reality is that he stepped into an organisation just after we lost successive GFs and one that had an established senior core of players.

The smart move would have been to engage with this core, explain your plans and explain your philosophy on the game and success.

Whilst his intentions may have been correct in terms of a successful culture etc, it seems his execution was appalling.

By alienating your senior group, he had condemned himself to failure, and it all went to s**t from there IMO.

Bottom line is he wasn't up to it.

On the flipside and to his credit, Richo did the opposite with Roo and he stuck around to help the next gen come through.

Perhaps a more inclusive and less abrasive approach by Scott might have brought about a different outcome.

However it just looks like he didn't have the right tools to become a head coach based on his personality and communication skills.

IMO

 

[VDS66]

A 'poor culture' is such a lazy term... What exactly was Watters' referring to?

Was it players getting up to no good? The club that Watters had come from had just gone through continual drink driving scandals. His original club had seen a champion fall due to drug addiction.

It certainly wasn't a poor culture in regards to performance... coming off 2 GF's and a near finals appearance (after a 1-5 start... probably partly due to Lenny doing his knee in round 2).

Is it the party culture that we've apparently had since the 70's?

The only poor culture that clearly see as an issue was off field in the admin offices. Weak/poor/non existent leadership that saw them let a great coach walk. Then appointed an incompetent coach on the recommendation of an arch rival.

Is it any wonder that Pelchen was able to sell them the dream of building the club without them doing due diligence on what he had actually achieved and how his approach would impact the rest of the club.

He was probably referring to his disdain for the club, much like Blight.

Reality is every club has players who play up.

He knew that when he took the job.

Once again, a smart operator would have embraced the leaders and leveraged that to make change.

He failed. Instead he arrogantly pinged about thinking that he knew better.

True leaders get buy in from their troops and takes them on the journey. Lyon did this.

Watters was mentally incapable.

People can seek to apportion blame however they like, but the truth is he knew what he was getting into and he failed miserably at healing and uniting the club after Lyon walked out.

Once again and to his credit, Richo for all his perceived faults, did just that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hey Saints fans,

Just had a listen to the Watters podcast and got to say I find he comes across as arrogant and not at all likeable. I know a podcast is hardly a good way to judge someone's character but listening to that I can definitely see why so many were rumoured to dislike him.

Anyways listening to him go on about the "bad culture" at St Kilda but not really expand on why I thought I'd share a conversation I overheard between a former Saints player and Eagles supporter at one of our training sessions. (I'm not the type of person to talk to footballers but I just happened to be near this bloke who obviously had no such qualms.)

This player spent time at St Kilda under Watters so here is a brief summary on what was essentially said (not verbatim) if you're interested:

- Didn't rate Watters and that Simpson was a far, far superior coach
- A lot of unstableness with the clubs admin and hierarchy-had a negative effect on the environment and affected the players. Wasn't a particularly happy place to be at the time.
(Nothing groundbreaking there, but the next stuff is interesting)
- Cliques within the playing group. Basically the core players from the RL era were their own group and then there was everyone else.
- Felt the leadership from Roo was lacking in certain aspects*

*Ill elaborate a bit here. He said how great a leader Hurn was because of how every Eagle player on the list felt valued, included and invested in (no matter their ability). Apparently at St Kilda the "fringe players" were largely ignored and this created a fractured playing group. Wasn't happy with how he and others were treated by the senior players.

Please don't think I've posted this to gloat about how great the Eagles are and how poor the Saints were at that time - I just wanted to give a reason on why Scott Watters may have thought St Kilda had a poor culture.

FWIW I definitely believe Dal Santo that there is a lot more to it than what Watters said. Without knowing all the details my guess would be that part of Watters undoing was trying to address these cliques at the club but got it very wrong in doing so- not helped by coming across as an arrogant ****.

David Armitage, or Jack Steven would be the ones to ask.
They were drafted under Ross Lyon, only cementing a spot in the "core group" during 2011.
Then experienced Watters and Richardson.

So were they part of the Clique? ( I have heard before that the team became the "in's" and "outs" under Lyon ).

Mark Hutchings didn't seem to get a look in under Lyon, I can't remember if he was playing well at VFL at the time.
I heard similar stuff about Gaertner, mind you i'm not saying that their attitudes at the time were perfect.

Cripps was there a couple of years and was getting game time. Maybe Nick Riewoldt wasn't hugging the young players enough.

Hickey seemed to fit in with all the players just fine. So i'd say it was Cripps who was disgruntled , and he's the one who forced the trade home.

The main playing group had mostly come from the 2000, 2001, and a few from 2,3,4.
It makes sense that they tended to clump together a bit in private.
Nothing suggests that the likes of CJ, Ray, Schneider, Dempster didn't immediately fit in though.

 

[StCicatriz]

A 'poor culture' is such a lazy term... What exactly was Watters' referring to?

Was it players getting up to no good? The club that Watters had come from had just gone through continual drink driving scandals. His original club had seen a champion fall due to drug addiction.

It certainly wasn't a poor culture in regards to performance... coming off 2 GF's and a near finals appearance (after a 1-5 start... probably partly due to Lenny doing his knee in round 2).

Is it the party culture that we've apparently had since the 70's?

The only poor culture that clearly see as an issue was off field in the admin offices. Weak/poor/non existent leadership that saw them let a great coach walk. Then appointed an incompetent coach on the recommendation of an arch rival.

Is it any wonder that Pelchen was able to sell them the dream of building the club without them doing due diligence on what he had actually achieved and how his approach would impact the rest of the club.

its a great point about the pies. they certainly had their issues. their CEO was on record stating they had issues with volcanic behaviour, so you can only imagine what was happening behind closed doors!

WCE not so much, watters had a falling out with Woosha due to the handling of the issues at WCE. he had left prior to it all starting. he wasn't there when the culture got going at WCE under mainy and when malthouse and co effectively gave up and let him do what he wanted to try and improve the onfield results, which instilled the attitude moving forward that created the issues they had. ken tried to address it and the board sacked him. watters wasn't there when woosh was coaching.

we certainly had serious off-field issues. off the top of my head, since dal and roo were at the club:
- 2 players charged with sexual assault. 1 convicted the other walked but then re-offended and was charged again after leaving the club. one of these players should never have been at the club given his past issues with alcohol and domestic violence,
- 1 players charged with assault of a patron at a pub. 2 other players investigated,
- 1 player charged and convicted of breaching an AVO,
- 1 player investigated and lucky to escape charges from a street fight,
- 1 player investigated for setting a hired performer alight,
- 1 player investigated for abusing a lady at an airport,
- 1 player alleged to have urinated at the bar causing it to splash on another patron,
- 2 players involved in a long drinking sessions that resulted in a serious car accident,
- 1 player involved in a altercation in a night club with another player,
- 1 player involved in an altercation on the street whilst under the influence of prescription medication. 3 other players also punished for being under the influence of either prescription drugs or alcohol,
- 1 player testing positive to performance enhancing drugs,
- 1 president admitting to working under the influence of drugs.

thats before you look at the minor drinking stuff like DUI. i think we clearly had an issue with poor culture in the playing group, but it was all off-field, not onfield. i think they were very professional onfield and did everything they could to win a flag. i think watters was the first coach to really in a strong way put the foot down. he was unsuccessful, but i think richo and finnis implemented meaningful change there, which we are now benefiting from today.

i won't go into the schoolgirl crap. that's well documented. also involved collingwood.

a lot of the drinking, drugs and player behaviour seemed to stem from the old playing group culture pre 00's. clubs and players just had a lower bar in terms of what was acceptable and not. it takes time to change those behavours. you kind of need to go through another generation of players to get that changed implemented. WCE went through it and are now better for it. we went through it and the behaviour has improved out of sight compared to what was occurring during Dal and Nick's days. we may not have been successful on field, but we certainly have been very successful off it in terms of repairing our brand due to improving our behaviour. Finnis, Richo and the current playing group deserve a lot of credit for that!

gut feel is our off-field behaviour is the least of the AFLs concern considering all the AFL clubs. they'd be more concerned with a club over here and it's recent issues. feels very much like us when we were in the bubble.

strange thing is, which is incredibly sad, there have only been four players that i can think of that died due to drugs and or alcohol. none of which came from our club. one occurred very recently. so if i was going to point to a club that demonstrated the worst culture, i don't think it's us. we pale in comparison to some clubs efforts over the journey.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Well I for one had high hopes of The Circle ️ of Trust.

 

[jwint43]

Two sides to every story, but I can imagine that it wouldn't have been the easiest club to walk into in 2012. One flag in history and lost 2 heartbreaker GF's in a row with an ageing list and crap facilities. But man I hate the word "culture" and how it is always thrown around as an excuse without identifying what it means. It's the most overused word to excuse/praise a team of good/underperforming players. Every club has their fare share of well behaved guys, and those who like to get up to trouble. It's truly whether the media finds out as to whether "culture" ever gets questioned.

 

[StCicatriz]

Two sides to every story, but I can imagine that it wouldn't have been the easiest club to walk into in 2012. One flag in history and lost 2 heartbreaker GF's in a row with an ageing list and crap facilities. But man I hate the word "culture" and how it is always thrown around as an excuse without identifying what it means. It's the most overused word to excuse/praise a team of good/underperforming players. Every club has their fare share of well behaved guys, and those who like to get up to trouble. It's truly whether the media finds out as to whether "culture" ever gets questioned.

especially when comparing it to collingwood. they also had their fair share of issues. its been pretty damning tbh about how much change they also had to implement.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Good clubs don't have those cultural issues, how many Collingwood players have drunk drove, placed bets on games and had positive drugs tests.......... 2 incidents that we had, were absolutely blown out of proportion by the same grubs that run these podcasts.

culture - the easily unsubstantiated way to bash a club or a group of people.
its funny how these HS grubs in 4 podcasts have done 2 StKilda coaches.......

Worth listening to Roo talking to Whateley about this today on SEN if you can find it.

 

[StCicatriz]

hawthorn had oodles of issues with player behaviour under mitchell, hodge and clarko. do they have a poor culture too?

 

[Saint Watto]

hawthorn had oodles of issues with player behaviour under mitchell, hodge and clarko. do they have a poor culture too?

Lot's of flags=credits in the bank.

 

[Diehard Saint]

hawthorn had oodles of issues with player behaviour under mitchell, hodge and clarko. do they have a poor culture too?

West coast, Bombers, Blues, Tigers, Roos.... name me one club that hasn’t had issues, and some a lot more major than ours.

Some just better at burying their issues than we are.

 

[Joffaboy]

Doesn't want to be. Never applied. Didn't seek it out. Didn't follow up offers.

Lol.

Wouldn't have got one after the s**t he pulled at the Saints.

Glad to see Whately and Riewoldt basically call the Sacked podcast a pile of steaming crap for sacked coaches to vent their spleen.
So right. Watters was a bellend and so were the fools who appointed him.

 

[austinnn]

Nailed it! Great post.

There's fault on both sides. Unfortunately there's parallels between GTs podcast and Watters.

He had the right idea just implemented it extremely poorly by the sounds of it. Richo had a better crack at dissolving that issue.

Unfortunately I think it's all a symptom of the ross era and the lack of strong leadership at the club.

It's funny freo now have similar issues. Poor player behaviour. Players backed in to the hilt as long as they're one of the experienced players. Lesser players thrown to the way side.

Yes indeed. I've been down on Richo's coaching for a while and his development program, but one thing you can say for him is that he unified the playing group so we'll and really focused on the team aspect getting the younger players involved but helping to keep the vets interested too. No wonder the players love him.

 

[Jughead77]

THE PHANTOM
St Kilda defender Callum Wilkie set to return to Adelaide Oval for the first time since last year’s SANFL grand final
The Phantom, The Advertiser
7 minutes ago
Subscriber only

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St Kilda defender Callum Wilkie on Saturday night will step foot on Adelaide Oval for the first time since North Adelaide’s grand final triumph — and the ride to get back there has been a life-changing one.
The last time he was there, in September last year, the 22-year-old was part of a Roosters side which broke a 27-year SANFL premiership drought with a 19-point victory over Norwood.
At that stage of his life, Wilkie, who had played at North Adelaide since he was 13, was working as an accountant, talking numbers for a living.

This week, 10 months later, the 22-year-old, originally from Walkerville, returns to the venue as one of the AFL’s most-promising intercept-defenders.
“It will be good to get back to Adelaide and play at Adelaide Oval again. It’s got some fond memories from last year,” Wilkie told The Advertiser ahead of this week’s clash with the Crows.
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And with football now his full-time job, it’s Wilkie’s numbers doing all the talking.

Callum Wilkie celebrates with North Adelaide teammates at the final siren of last year’s SANFL grand final at Adelaide Oval. Picture: Sarah Reed
In 18 games, the 191cm Wilkie has only been out-marked in a defensive one-on-one contest twice.
It’s an outstanding feat for a first-year player who has spent time on the game’s best forwards — tall and small.
And his 36.6 per cent win-rate in these contests is ranked 13th of the top-50 players for total defensive one-one-ones.

“They brought me in as more of the intercepting sort of player but I feel like I’ve always been strong in my one-on-one contests so it was good to actually show that side of my game,” Wilkie said.
Callum Wilkie 2019

Key defender	Average	Rating
Disposals	14.8	Above average
Uncontested possessions	8.9	Above average
Kicking efficiency	82.4%	Above average
Pressure points	18.6	Above average
Effective disposals	12.5	Above average
Groundball-gets	3.6	Above average
Intercept possessions	6	Average
Intercept marks	21	Average

In early October, two weeks after the grand final victory, Wilkie claimed the Barrie Robran Medal as the Roosters’ best-and-fairest.
Six weeks later, he quit his job as an accountant after the Saints swooped with pick No. 3 in November’s rookie draft.
The draft was on Friday afternoon — while he was at work — and, by Sunday, Wilkie had packed up and moved to Melbourne.
“It was a whirlwind of emotions, having to drop everything, pack up and move interstate but, mainly, it was just pure excitement to get the chance to pursue my dream,” he said
In March, with defenders Jake Carlisle, Nathan Brown and Dylan Roberton missing through injury, Wilkie made his AFL debut against the Suns in Round 1.
A month later, the versatile left-footer signed a two-year contract extension after just four games — albeit very impressive ones — at St Kilda.

Callum Wilkie takes a strong mark in front of Geelong’s Tom Hawkins. Picture: George Salpigtidis/AAP
Wilkie’s ride, as he puts it, has been a whirlwind.
But after settling into life interstate, he’s comfortable and enjoying every minute.
“It’s been a big change from Adelaide in terms of the city and everything happening but I’m absolutely loving it,” Wilkie said.
And, after playing every game in his debut season so far, Wilkie is now also comfortable at the top-level.
“Obviously the first couple of games I was a bit nervous, but once you get into it, you become comfortable adjusting to the speed of the game and everything that comes with it,” Wilkie said after keeping Demon Bayley Fritsch quiet and tallying 15 disposals and four intercept marks of his own last week.
Star midfield teammate Seb Ross agrees, stating Wilkie’s “playing like a 150-game player” following the win over Melbourne.
“I’m not sure if it’s because I have the composure or if it’s because how slow I am and it makes it look like I do,” Wilkie said in reply to Ross’ praise.
It’s a humble response from a player making his mark on the club — and the competition — something which he didn’t think he was going to get the opportunity to do last year.

Callum Wilkie in full-flight against the Suns in Round 13.
“When I got drafted, at that stage everyone was healthy — Roberton, Carlisle, Brown — so I always thought it was going to be hard to crack in.”
“Unfortunately, we had injuries but that gave me an opportunity to get into the side,” Wilkie said of the spot which opened up during the pre-season.
If it wasn’t for the unfortunate injuries to these key players, as caretaker coach Brett Ratten pointed out after the win over Melbourne, the Saints “wouldn’t have found out about Wilkie”.
But, now, with Brown and Carlisle back in the side, Wilkie has, again been able to showcase his ability as a floating, intercept defender.
Live stream all the action from AFL Round 20 on KAYO SPORTS. Every match of every round live and any time in HD. Get your 14-day free trial >
After taking 19 intercept marks in the opening 13 rounds, Wilkie has recorded 18 alongside the key-pillars in the past six matches.
And, in terms of a match-up against Adelaide, Wilkie — who split his time between Tom Lynch and Taylor Walker in the absence of Carlisle and Brown in Round 6 — is likely to spend time on a number of Crows.
“Their forwardline is obviously very dangerous. (Taylor) Walker, (Josh) Jenkins and (Eddie) Betts if he comes back in,” Wilkie said of the challenge awaiting the Saints back-six on Saturday night.
“With the two key pillars there, I usually get thrown around a bit. We’ll work out a plan to get that done as a team.”

Callum Wilkie defends against Adelaide’s Tom Lynch in Round 6. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty
Wilkie’s relationship with Ratten is strong, with the ability of his new coach to not change the way he interacts with the players the key.
But it will always be Allan Richardson who gave him the chance to play in the big time.
St Kilda and Richardson parted ways in mid-July after six years.
“Richo was good to me. He gave me the opportunity to make my AFL debut which is something I’ll always remember.”
While there’s been so much change for Wilkie over the past year, he hasn’t forgotten his old life — or the people in it.
Some of his former North Adelaide teammates will be there on Saturday night and he’ll be there to support them at Prospect Oval on Sunday.
And his love and interest for business and accounting is still strong.

Wilkie reached out to St Kilda’s finance manager Adrian Deluca when he first go to the club about some work experience.
It’s something all parties agreed to put off until post-season but Wilkie is looking forward to taking on some work at the club or at an accountancy firm when the football year is over.
Is it because he misses being an accountant?
“I do (miss it) in a way. I enjoyed work and I enjoyed where I worked, it was a great bunch of people,” Wilkie said.
“I found it very interesting, in terms of different businesses and the whole accountancy side of it.”
“But I wouldn’t trade this for the world.”
Neither, it seems, would the Saints.