Analysis Get Rid of Medical and Fitness Staff

[MyManLynch]

It’s probably since been answered ...

... but the domain tunnel runs under the oval:

View attachment 719782

I’m pretty sure this was tunnelled (rather than open cut and backfilled) so doubt it’d be close enough to the surface to make any difference. That’s supported by the tunnel running underneath the foundations of the old Glasshouse ...

... although any low frequency vibrations from BringouttheGimp rumbling through the Domain Tunnel in his 1971 Valiant Charger would pose a serious risk of injury to any players training on the oval overhead.

Can’t they just fill the Domain Tunnel with foam or install a massive bouncy castle inside the tunnel?
I seriously cannot believe that people think that a deep tunnel could have any impact whatsoever upon the hardness of the surface ground.

 

[Robroy22]

I think it’s a fair question to ask.

It’s not unreasonable that, comparing different sporting administrations ...

One might be more inclined to cause players to perform actions beyond the capabilities of their bodies.

One might be creating more mentally stressful environments that have physical consequences.

Etc, etc

Actually we DID have them in 2009 and 2011?

 

[Quicky]

Can’t they just fill the Domain Tunnel with foam or install a massive bouncy castle inside the tunnel?
I seriously cannot believe that people think that a deep tunnel could have any impact whatsoever upon the hardness of the surface ground.

The tunnel is unlikely to be an issue but the development of the precinct may have been. Construction, earthworks, heavy machinery will all compact the ground. Our injuries seemed to get worse when we moved there. Not saying it's the cause either, just an observation.

 

[Chameleon75]

I think it needs to begin with understanding what is good and bad with respect to injury prevention. Is soft good? Is hard good? Where in the middle is good? I’d imagine there’d be more parameters than simply ‘hard’ and ‘soft’ too - there’d be a difference between long cut grass on a base as hard as concrete, versus short cut grass on a more moist surface.

There’s also a lot of discussion on this topic about construction. There’d also be an issue of maintenance - is the ground being prepared correctly for training? (Cutting Grass to correct length, watering to correct moisture level, grass being fertilised correctly to ensure consistent growth, etc, etc)

I’d also add it needs to afl specific, the current standards have been adopted from the US.

 

[Chameleon75]

The tunnel is unlikely to be an issue but the development of the precinct may have been. Construction, earthworks, heavy machinery will all compact the ground. Our injuries seemed to get worse when we moved there. Not saying it's the cause either, just an observation.

Players are simply not that heavy, if there is a problem with the surface it will be at the surface, load distributes with depth

 

[76woodenspooners]

The tunnel is unlikely to be an issue but the development of the precinct may have been. Construction, earthworks, heavy machinery + crashing helicopters will all compact the ground...

EFA

 

[76woodenspooners]

I seriously cannot believe that people think that a deep tunnel could have any impact whatsoever upon the hardness of the surface ground.

Absolutely!

Especially when you consider that the old glasshouse has a diving pool underneath the floorboards at the oval end of the building - it’d be a 5 meter deep pool for the highboard - and the foundations would reach well below that (supporting the weight of all that water in the diving pool) - add clearance - so the top of the Domain tunnel would have to be a long way down to be underneath all of that.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I’d also ad it needs to afl specific, the current standards have been adopted from the US.

That would imply NFL? Would have thought soccer would have been a much better starting point (lots of continuous running at different speeds, and changing of direction, with the occasional jumping)

 

[Chameleon75]

That would imply NFL? Would have thought soccer would have been a much better starting point (lots of continuous running at different speeds, and changing of direction, with the occasional jumping)

They may have updated their standards since, but when marvel was getting designed it was based on US standards, they brought in someone from US to consult, we lacked the knowledge locally.

Edit: their tests however come from horse racing. Other sports use the cleggs hammer, afl use penetrometer, but with a single drop rather than three.

 

[Maggie5]

They may have updated their standards since, but when marvel was getting designed it was based on US standards, they brought in someone from US to consult, we lacked local knowledge.

Edit: their tests however come from horse racing. Other sports use the cleggs hammer, afl use penetrometer, but with a single drop rather than three.

Would they not benchmark to say MCG surface?

You appear to have some knowledge on testing and is really interesting about using a single drop compared to three, what difference does this make if any?

 

[Chameleon75]

Would they not benchmark to say MCG surface?

You appear to have some knowledge on testing and is really interesting about using a single drop compared to three, what difference does this make if any?

Not an expert, but I’ve bumped into related disciplines over the years and picked up a couple of things.

All grounds get tested and have to fall into a range. I believe they get tested prior to each match, I’d have to look up on that though.

Basically the difference between 3 drops vs 1 is that 1 drop is more conservative. The drops are done on the same point (repeated in multiple locations). The first drop will give the shallower penetration with the third the deepest, racing will then use the average as the “result”, the afl use the first drop which is the “worst” reading. That how I understand it anyway.

 

[Gone Critical]

What's your take on our injuries The Royal Sampler, Gone Critical and Swooop?

Our injuries have damaged our chances consistently over Buckley’s tenure. Unfortunately there is no real way for any of us to know the causes. My suspicion is the medical/physio staff have little to do with it. Posters generally overestimate the role medical staff have in injuries , other factors, especially luck, probably play the biggest role. We have turned over medical and fitness staff a number of times in these years. We would also use a mix of surgeons to assess, decide on and perform surgeries required.

It’s concerning and killing our chances but the causes are impossible for us to know and the club itself can only make educated guesses even with all the information they have

 

[Adz]

Our injuries have damaged our chances consistently over Buckley’s tenure. Unfortunately there is no real way for any of us to know the causes. My suspicion is the medical/physio staff have little to do with it. Posters generally overestimate the role medical staff have in injuries , other factors, especially luck, probably play the biggest role. We have turned over medical and fitness staff a number of times in these years. We would also use a mix of surgeons to assess, decide on and perform surgeries required.

It’s concerning and killing our chances but the causes are impossible for us to know and the club itself can only make educated guesses even with all the information they have

Luck? Pleeease. There’s no such thing as luck. Especially not bad luck occurring 7 years straight.

There certainly is ways for the club to investigate, but they won’t because the results will be damning.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Hey mate where this come from ? Got a link ??

Don't bother asking. It's sure to be a figment of BJ's imagination. Or maybe as he his unlikely to actually 'imagine' anything, because that implies the suspension of disbelief and all that non factual s**t, it's more likely something he feels compelled to input because it appears to come from a source within the club to which only the 'BJs' of this world have access. The inside info probably comes from someone as reliable as you or me!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Our injuries have damaged our chances consistently over Buckley’s tenure. Unfortunately there is no real way for any of us to know the causes. My suspicion is the medical/physio staff have little to do with it. Posters generally overestimate the role medical staff have in injuries , other factors, especially luck, probably play the biggest role. We have turned over medical and fitness staff a number of times in these years. We would also use a mix of surgeons to assess, decide on and perform surgeries required.

It’s concerning and killing our chances but the causes are impossible for us to know and the club itself can only make educated guesses even with all the information they have

Maybe we have consistently recruited lemons. I have bought several cars which have all too quickly developed a sharp citrus flavour due to my lack of due diligence and care in the purchase process. I have also bought property in the same gungho manner, and would not be surprised if the club had similarly followed my lead and thrown caution to the winds in player recruitment purely on the basis of a bit of a hunch or something similar.

Other than Stephenson and De Goey, the drafting of players has resembled the targeting of a draft board, a few hits, but mostly misses. We have recruited too many players with the physical resilience of disabled stick insects. Our current injury list is an indictment of the club's medical team and/or recruiting/drafting. The loss of players this year has been consistent and utterly debilitating. This season is over. Our list is ****ed.

 

[MyManLynch]

Absolutely!

Especially when you consider that the old glasshouse has a diving pool underneath the floorboards at the oval end of the building - it’d be a 5 meter deep pool for the highboard - and the foundations would reach well below that (supporting the weight of all that water in the diving pool) - add clearance - so the top of the Domain tunnel would have to be a long way down to be underneath all of that.

I’m no expert...but I would have thought that the top 12 inches would be the culprit (if there is one) with regard to hardness or softness of a playing surface.

 

[jonbe54]

Our injuries have damaged our chances consistently over Buckley’s tenure. Unfortunately there is no real way for any of us to know the causes. My suspicion is the medical/physio staff have little to do with it. Posters generally overestimate the role medical staff have in injuries , other factors, especially luck, probably play the biggest role. We have turned over medical and fitness staff a number of times in these years. We would also use a mix of surgeons to assess, decide on and perform surgeries required.

It’s concerning and killing our chances but the causes are impossible for us to know and the club itself can only make educated guesses even with all the information they have

If we could get training rights at old Vic park surely it would be worth training a season there to provide independent data, I am deeply suspicious of our current surface.

EDIT bloody well done Maynard for looking after your team mate.

 

[Swooop]

What's your take on our injuries The Royal Sampler, Gone Critical and Swooop?

Hey Quicky,

Hope you’re well mate.

Sadly none of us outside the club will never know for sure.

But purely statistically we are an extreme outlier over the past 7-8 years or so. It therefore does seem like it’s something more than simply bad luck.

Gone Critical gave an excellent
review and also TGG you’d have to agree with, in that we do seem to recruit many with long history of injury, Daniel Wells the most obvious example. But even there, there was such a tempting upside!

My best guess would be that training methods are likely to be a key factor but based on the terrible run we’ve had, I also think it’s pretty unlikely that we have the best medical set up in the league.

It needs reviewing for sure because it’s been blunting our chances year after year.

 

[sideswipe]

If we could get training rights at old Vic park surely it would be worth training a season there to provide independent data, I am deeply suspicious of our current surface.

EDIT bloody well done Maynard for looking after your team mate.

Not sure our modern-day players would enjoy the absence of facilities at McHale (no longer a) Stadium, but it might be the making of them!

 

[Adz]

How’s IQ tracking along?

 

[Vicky Park]

So Melbourne has had a disastrous year with injuries. Us too. GWS. Gold Coast. Essendon. On it goes.

Do all these clubs have incompetent medical/rehab staff? Is it the way the game is played? Are the lists over-burdended with physically vulnerable and injury prone players? Is it the reduction in rotations? A combination of all the above?

Bucks said at a recent function I attended that the pace of the game, and the negative physical fallout, had increased noticeably over even the last five years. If so, then we need to be ahead of this curve, rather than catching up, and we are not. But nor are others. Some clubs might have especially clever and astute individuals operating in these areas, and we possibly do not. But I dont see that as club incompetence so much, as more underachievement. And we have to get better. Our horrendous injury profile wont go away otherwise, even with the delisting or trading of some of the chronically injured at season's end.

 

[Scodog10]

So Melbourne has had a disastrous year with injuries. Us too. GWS. Gold Coast. Essendon. On it goes.

Do all these clubs have incompetent medical/rehab staff? Is it the way the game is played? Are the lists over-burdended with physically vulnerable and injury prone players? Is it the reduction in rotations? A combination of all the above?

Bucks said at a recent function I attended that the pace of the game, and the negative physical fallout, had increased noticeably over even the last five years. If so, then we need to be ahead of this curve, rather than catching up, and we are not. But nor are others. Some clubs might have especially clever and astute individuals operating in these areas, and we possibly do not. But I dont see that as club incompetence so much, as more underachievement. And we have to get better. Our horrendous injury profile wont go away otherwise, even with the delisting or trading of some of the chronically injured at season's end.

The problem I have is that he’s acknowledging that fact in a public forum yet no action is being taken. We’ll review practices, make changes to playing personal and shift a few deckchairs on the Titanic, but I very much doubt we’re overly invested in fixing the issues because it doesn’t seem to attract the attention it deserves. Or at least that’s how it appears externally because of the lack of transparency.

 

[kickitolachie]

I am with Buckley, and see the pace of the game these days as the problem. How can it be decreased? Scrap interchange as a tactical device. The practise of extreme effort, sit down then further extreme effort could itself well be a factor in the muscle injuries that are so common now. "Resting " in the forward pocket may be what players need to do after a full on effort. Doctors and fitness staff are the last culprits I would be targeting.

 

[Vicky Park]

The problem I have is that he’s acknowledging that fact in a public forum yet no action is being taken. We’ll review practices, make changes to playing personal and shift a few deckchairs on the Titanic, but I very much doubt we’re overly invested in fixing the issues because it doesn’t seem to attract the attention it deserves. Or at least that’s how it appears externally because of the lack of transparency.

As each injury-riddled season passes, the pressure mounts. This season - arguably - the injuries have killed our hopes of contending.

Surely this time we will move heaven and earth to fix the problem, or put measures in place that at least start to fix the problem.

On the transparency issue, frustrating though it is, this might currently be due to the season still being in the balance. Not wanting to rock the internal boat, put individuals off the programme, etc.

But at seasons’s end - this issue should be the club’s no 1 priority.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So Melbourne has had a disastrous year with injuries. Us too. GWS. Gold Coast. Essendon. On it goes.

Do all these clubs have incompetent medical/rehab staff? Is it the way the game is played? Are the lists over-burdended with physically vulnerable and injury prone players? Is it the reduction in rotations? A combination of all the above?

Bucks said at a recent function I attended that the pace of the game, and the negative physical fallout, had increased noticeably over even the last five years. If so, then we need to be ahead of this curve, rather than catching up, and we are not. But nor are others. Some clubs might have especially clever and astute individuals operating in these areas, and we possibly do not. But I dont see that as club incompetence so much, as more underachievement. And we have to get better. Our horrendous injury profile wont go away otherwise, even with the delisting or trading of some of the chronically injured at season's end.

The discussion kind of goes: "I'm frustrated with our injuries, I know nothing about injury management, so I'll just demand we sack everyone to ease my frustrations"