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Goroyals22

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 29, 2014
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Grade dole recipients based on their skills, with unskilled recipients having to apply for more jobs than professionals because there are more of the former jobs than the latter - and cap at 25 or so, with a minimum of 10. It also curtails the phenomenon that you are so sceptical about below.



Hey, it happens.



I guess you're talking about the people who've been within the system for years and know how to exploit administrative incompetence?

Still, how do they get re-engaged with no penalty, unless the DHS/Jobactive agency screwed up first?



Well, these are some ideas. Staff Centrelink properly, deal with the bludgers on a case-by-case basis, and raise Newstart so that the vast majority of genuine job-seekers can survive. Also scrap WFTD and reform Jobactive if possible (if not, then also scrap). Should it be reformed, Jobactive must be made up of firms with actual business and recruitment expertise. The money saved from scrapping WFTD, plus increased GST receipts, will go a long way towards paying for increasing Newstart. Then re-assess.

So because you have more skills than others you shouldn’t have to lower yourself to do menial tasks even though these still pay better than the dole??? Yeah that will work...

It’s got nothing to do with exploiting administrative incompetence it’s the way Centrelink is set up that the second someone is cut off even if they cop an 8 week non payment period they can cry poor and get their benefits straight back on the basis they can’t survive without the dole so overall there is no deterrent for non compliance.

So u want less job search and no work for the dole?? So less requirements to receive more money?? If anything the dole should be lowered further to push people towards work not raised so more people
Decide f it.. I’m going to do nothing at all....


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DaRick

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So because you have more skills than others you shouldn’t have to lower yourself to do menial tasks even though these still pay better than the dole??? Yeah that will work...

I never said that, nor implied it. By all means take up whatever suitable work you can to get off the Dole.

I came up with the idea because in my experience cleaners, labourers and the like are unlikely to even hire former professionals in the cities anyway. It's not like cleaning firms can't hire foreigners (they often do) and even manual labour jobs are being automated.

So basically an application from someone who looks like a former professional usually gets binned.

When professionals do get menial jobs, I would be almost certain that a mate set them up.

It’s got nothing to do with exploiting administrative incompetence it’s the way Centrelink is set up that the second someone is cut off even if they cop an 8 week non payment period they can cry poor and get their benefits straight back on the basis they can’t survive without the dole so overall there is no deterrent for non compliance.

Interesting; thanks for the insight.

So u want less job search

A lesser mandatory amount for some, a higher amount for the others. If people want to apply for many more on top of that, as I did, then fine.

and no work for the dole??

Yes; think of the savings to the taxpayer. Plus it doesn't actually get people into employment.

So less requirements to receive more money?? If anything the dole should be lowered further to push people towards work not raised so more people
Decide f it.. I’m going to do nothing at all....

Congrats, you're to the right of Kevin Andrews on this issue.

If people want to live on the Dole as is, they're 1) lunatics and 2) unemployable.

Plus there are more applicants than jobs, so you'll just be punishing legitimate job-seekers. That, and the government loses the money the unemployed don't earn (consumption tax).
 
Last edited:
Aug 21, 2016
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Why is the job search requirements stupid?? If it’s set at 22 ( which I don’t believe it would be) it’s one job a day...1... really if your keen on work you would do more than 22 a month or what the requirements is unless it’s a case of that’s not the job I want to do so I’m gonna do nothing until that job magically appears for me... hence the term dole bludger.

My first appointment with the jobseeker agency the woman literally said 'you are going to find yourself applying for jobs you have no chance of getting just to be eligible for payments'. I didn't know what she meant at the time but I do now.

If you have good skills and experience then you need to be selective on your applications. So, for example in the IT field, there's no point applying to be Java developer if you are a project manager. Then they might specify you need a corporate accounting background, or banking, or government etc. If you check Seek, LinkedIn, Jora every day you end up with a fairly small list of suitable jobs to apply for. At which point you can see that there are 200 other applicants for each role.

Then you can also apply for low skilled jobs. I would take anything suitable but most times they require some relevant experience and/or will reject you because you are over-qualified. At the end of the month I applied for 16 random jobs that I had no hope of getting. The government knows about this but does not care.

 

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Aug 21, 2016
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Grade dole recipients based on their skills, with unskilled recipients having to apply for more jobs than professionals because there are more of the former jobs than the latter - and cap at 25 or so, with a minimum of 10. It also curtails the phenomenon that you are so sceptical about below.

They kind of do assess people. I was rated at 'would probably get a job soon without assistance'. It was an acknowledgment that they would be of no use in finding me a job.

Well, these are some ideas. Staff Centrelink properly, deal with the bludgers on a case-by-case basis, and raise Newstart so that the vast majority of genuine job-seekers can survive. Also scrap WFTD and reform Jobactive if possible (if not, then also scrap). Should it be reformed, Jobactive must be made up of firms with actual business and recruitment expertise. The money saved from scrapping WFTD, plus increased GST receipts, will go a long way towards paying for increasing Newstart. Then re-assess.

  • Review the Centrelink process from start to finish to assess how it meets its commitments. As I have said the MyGov Centrelink site is useless - fix it. Assign case officers who take accountability for outcomes rather than the forever anonymous backroom buck-passing.
  • Payments should be based on needs. A teenager still living at home with no bills should get minimal amounts. Someone who has substantial mortgage/rental, gas, electricity, rates, house insurance, car should get a realistic amount to cover their needs while out of work.
  • Have a smarter, tailored approach to job seekers with different methodology used for people with little/no experience and those with good skills.
  • I hold no hope of the Jobactive providers doing anything useful. They are comprised of people who can't get a job in non-government HR jobs. As Dirty Harry said, 'Human Resources? They're assholes!'
 
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Only $34 so leaves change for a carton of milk.
 
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Does anyone here actually know many living on Newstart because they're too lazy to get a job?

I've never met anyone with that disposition other than dealers.

Not since my school days, there was a few people that during their teenage years didn't know what they wanted to do. There was one guy that spent his late teens bumming around surfing but he finished up becoming an architect and now owns a large house and drives a merc.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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Not since my school days, there was a few people that during their teenage years didn't know what they wanted to do. There was one guy that spent his late teens bumming around surfing but he finished up becoming an architect and now owns a large house and drives a merc.
Yeah, I literally do not know of a single person that I've met in the past ~10 years who lives on -- or rather -- chooses to live on Newstart.

If you believe people here, you'd swear 20% of Australians are just looking to mooch off the well-to-do people for fun.
 

Goroyals22

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Yeah, I literally do not know of a single person that I've met in the past ~10 years who lives on -- or rather -- chooses to live on Newstart.

If you believe people here, you'd swear 20% of Australians are just looking to mooch off the well-to-do people for fun.

Sadly there are plenty of people for who the dole is a way of life and how they choose to live. What makes it worse is now you see the parents and the kids going down the same path.
 

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donkeypunchd

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Wonder how ScoMo reconciles his refusal to pay the unemployed a reasonable benefit with his Christian beliefs. My understanding of Christianity (based predominantly on the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church) is that such behaviour, i.e. failure to assist those in need, is worthy of damnation.

Matthew 25:41-46

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [b]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you,inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

For those who argue that his personal beliefs should be regarded as separate from his policy positions, the PM invited cameras into his church as part of the election campaign, that makes it fair game in my view.
 

Craven Morehead

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Jan 2, 2019
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Evidence, please.

Do you know how much the dole is?
jesus christ.
Your endless excuses about jobs and their difficulties, their unavailability, (or some other bullshit reason for not taking them), is wearing thin.
Are you seriously saying that there ISN'T thousands upon thousands of people who choose to live on welfare as a life choice?
This whole $40 a day argument is also bullshit...
add rent assistance, the health care and pension cards, child payments, subsidised food etc from charities.
There are so many people milking the system in so many ways, and they are generational...

You are either willingly blind or some Green shill.
 
May 1, 2016
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jesus christ.
Your endless excuses about jobs and their difficulties, their unavailability, (or some other bulls**t reason for not taking them), is wearing thin.
Are you seriously saying that there ISN'T thousands upon thousands of people who choose to live on welfare as a life choice?
This whole $40 a day argument is also bulls**t...
add rent assistance, the health care and pension cards, child payments, subsidised food etc from charities.
There are so many people milking the system in so many ways, and they are generational...

You are either willingly blind or some Green shill.
Um, wat?

Yes, I'm saying there are people who - shock, horror - cannot live on the dole. Because, as previously stated, it is not enough to live on. I know, because I've been on it. I don't have an 'endless list' of anything; if anything, you are the one who is coming in here and attacking me, endlessly. You lack an argument beyond 'Get a job, bludger.' Well, I've got 2, and the system is still a problem even though I am no longer within it.

Newsflash: sometimes just because you yourself have failed to experience something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You don't have to be a 'green shill' to see facts. But then, there's only one side of this particular discussion assuming something of the other, and it ain't me.
Well I’ve worked in the industry for 6 years so I’ve seen every type of person come through....

There are plenty who are more than happy to tick the box and get the dole... that’s a fact..

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Okay.

Do you mind if I ask you for some details, without breaching confidentiality of course? Like, where you were, the conditions in the market, the jobs you referred people to, etc?
 

Craven Morehead

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Um, wat?

Yes, I'm saying there are people who - shock, horror - cannot live on the dole. Because, as previously stated, it is not enough to live on. I know, because I've been on it. I don't have an 'endless list' of anything; if anything, you are the one who is coming in here and attacking me, endlessly. You lack an argument beyond 'Get a job, bludger.' Well, I've got 2, and the system is still a problem even though I am no longer within it.

Newsflash: sometimes just because you yourself have failed to experience something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You don't have to be a 'green shill' to see facts. But then, there's only one side of this particular discussion assuming something of the other, and it ain't me.

Son, you live in a time of historically low unemployment levels, never before seen low interest and inflation rates, an incredibly cheap availability of travel and you are sitting here, smugly, telling me that I have failed to experience tough times?
Have you ever seen an actual recession?
Interest rates at 17%?
Unemployment rates at over 10% and over 30% for youth?
A dole which was JUST the dole...no further added benefits like rent assistance etc.
Tried travelling from Perth to Sydney etc for the equivalent price of a new car?
No housing boom where Mummy and Daddy could back you up through their new found wealth via the equity in their home?

LOL!

In two posts I have shown you 153,000 jobs available to Australia's unemployed.
I have also pointed out that this entire premise of $40 a day is absolute bullshit!
Show me one welfare recipient who survives on the dole ALONE, and does not receive further benefits?


You f***ing spanker.
Don't lecture me.
 
May 1, 2016
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Son, you live in a time of historically low unemployment levels, never before seen low interest and inflation rates, an incredibly cheap availability of travel and you are sitting here, smugly, telling me that I have failed to experience tough times?
Have you ever seen an actual recession?
Interest rates at 17%?
Unemployment rates at over 10% and over 30% for youth?
A dole which was JUST the dole...no further added benefits like rent assistance etc.
Tried travelling from Perth to Sydney etc for the equivalent price of a new car?
No housing boom where Mummy and Daddy could back you up through their new found wealth via the equity in their home?

LOL!

In two posts I have shown you 153,000 jobs available to Australia's unemployed.
I have also pointed out that this entire premise of $40 a day is absolute bulls**t!
Show me one welfare recipient who survives on the dole ALONE, and does not receive further benefits?


You f***ing spanker.
Don't lecture me.
There is something deeply ironic that in a post in which you tell me not to lecture you, you've seen fit to try and lecture me.

So, old timer, have a seat.

I live in a time in which successive governments have deliberately obscured employment figures, conflating casual and seasonal work to create the illusion of a full workforce when the reality is that there is a chronic underemployment problem in this country, with increasingly less job security and other flow on effects. I live in a time which follows successive neoliberal governments that have ensured their electoral supremacy via pork-barrelling the middle class, to hide the fact that they have stripped money from services and given them straight back to business via tax breaks, to the point in which many of these organisations do not pay taxes, out of supposed economic theories which have not worked anywhere in any context in the interests of anyone save the extremely wealthy. I live in a time in which public debt is extremely high, due to a series of policies created by that government which have turned a housing bubble into a ticking bomb, ensuring that the majority of people's money is not being saved but is in property which they do not own.

I live in a time in which older generations who - as you state - undoubtedly did it tough, but continuously assert that, seeing as they did it 'all by themselves', my generation should be forced to endure barriers to entry into various wealth making enterprises that they did not have to fight against, after they took advantage of the previous generation's beneficence.

I live in a time in which the government has obscured and demurred, refused to provide a straightforward explanation over the Newstart payment and its associated offshoots. I live in a time in which they've created those distinctions to further decrease the payment down to component parts, in order to make each individual component harder to obtain. I live in a time in which the system created to manage it is faulty, given to individuals without experience in finding jobs for others, and who need to comply with government ahead of their duties to their clients. I live in a time in which employers have to sift through thousands of applications to find any that are relevant, due to the obscene and obnoxious jobs applied for requirement. I live in a time in which you will frequently be given the wrong advice, in which jobs providers will tell you to leave full time study to go to Work for the Dole.

Seeing as you took leave to call me any number of things over the course of this 'discussion', your contribution here as superfluous as single ply toilet paper in a tissue factory. You're far more selfish that I'll ever be, and that you continue to argue a perspective that is as self centred as it is archaic is as foolish as it appears.

This is what me lecturing you looks like. Now you know the difference.
 

Craven Morehead

I really don't care what you think.
Jan 2, 2019
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There is something deeply ironic that in a post in which you tell me not to lecture you, you've seen fit to try and lecture me.

So, old timer, have a seat.

I live in a time in which successive governments have deliberately obscured employment figures, conflating casual and seasonal work to create the illusion of a full workforce when the reality is that there is a chronic underemployment problem in this country, with increasingly less job security and other flow on effects. I live in a time which follows successive neoliberal governments that have ensured their electoral supremacy via pork-barrelling the middle class, to hide the fact that they have stripped money from services and given them straight back to business via tax breaks, to the point in which many of these organisations do not pay taxes, out of supposed economic theories which have not worked anywhere in any context in the interests of anyone save the extremely wealthy. I live in a time in which public debt is extremely high, due to a series of policies created by that government which have turned a housing bubble into a ticking bomb, ensuring that the majority of people's money is not being saved but is in property which they do not own.

I live in a time in which older generations who - as you state - undoubtedly did it tough, but continuously assert that, seeing as they did it 'all by themselves', my generation should be forced to endure barriers to entry into various wealth making enterprises that they did not have to fight against, after they took advantage of the previous generation's beneficence.

I live in a time in which the government has obscured and demurred, refused to provide a straightforward explanation over the Newstart payment and its associated offshoots. I live in a time in which they've created those distinctions to further decrease the payment down to component parts, in order to make each individual component harder to obtain. I live in a time in which the system created to manage it is faulty, given to individuals without experience in finding jobs for others, and who need to comply with government ahead of their duties to their clients. I live in a time in which employers have to sift through thousands of applications to find any that are relevant, due to the obscene and obnoxious jobs applied for requirement. I live in a time in which you will frequently be given the wrong advice, in which jobs providers will tell you to leave full time study to go to Work for the Dole.

Seeing as you took leave to call me any number of things over the course of this 'discussion', your contribution here as superfluous as single ply toilet paper in a tissue factory. You're far more selfish that I'll ever be, and that you continue to argue a perspective that is as self centred as it is archaic is as foolish as it appears.

This is what me lecturing you looks like. Now you know the difference.



Hahahaha....what a load of, typically, self-obsessed wank.
It's all the Government and somebody else's fault!
I've made my way through a time where you would lie down and die, you soft c***.
LOL!
 
May 1, 2016
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Hahahaha....what a load of, typically, self-obsessed wank.
It's all the Government and somebody else's fault!
I've made my way through a time where you would lie down and die, you soft c***.
LOL!
That's a pisser mate.

Go on, tell me how bad you had it. Offer me a basis for comparison, then, if you're so unhappy with your lot in the past that my ills offer no comparison.
 

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