2019 1st Ashes Test - Edgbaston 1-5 August 2019

gtrxuone

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Amazing 5 days of test cricket.Thursday night seems such a long time ago.Some Huge moments in this test.
Steve Smith's amazing 100's in both innings.
Marsterstroke selection of Peter Siddle.Who delivered with bat+ball.
Matthew Wade worthy of his test selection, Delivered
Great fightback after England's big first innings lead.
England's selection blunder.With in form bowler Chopra Archer watching from the stands. Jim Anderson only lasted 4 overs.
Nathan Lyon delivered on day 5 .With good support from the quicks.
 
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deanc

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Same injury as Paine had

Really, Gee, I thought Paine's injuries and treatment were without precedent and/or have never been repeated. After two failed attempts with braces and pins, Paine then had bone removed from his hip that was grafted onto his finger/s. I recall he had 5 or 6 operations over an 18 month period...
 
Really, Gee, I thought Paine's injuries and treatment were without precedent and/or have never been repeated. After two failed attempts with braces and pins, Paine then had bone removed from his hip that was grafted onto his finger/s. I recall he had 5 or 6 operations over an 18 month period...

I’m not totally over Whiteman’s injuries but it’s a bad finger injury and he’s struggling. I’m hoping he’s back next year. Our next keeper I have no idea on after him, maybe Gotch?
 

deanc

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I’m not totally over Whiteman’s injuries but it’s a bad finger injury and he’s struggling. I’m hoping he’s back next year. Our next keeper I have no idea on after him, maybe Gotch?

Oh, well that's sort of good news as you'd not want anyone to go through what Paine did. Related, apparently Paine has either broken or dislocated all his digits during his career with the exception of his left thumb and right index finger...
 
Oh, well that's sort of good news as you'd not want anyone to go through what Paine did. Related, apparently Paine has either broken or dislocated all his digits during his career with the exception of his left thumb and right index finger...

Yeah honestly Whiteman’s injuries have annoyed me had him marked at playing 40+ tests he’ll be lucky to get 1 unfortunately. I hope I’m wrong.
 
Knew you would mention that. Given we were 8/122 without Anderson, maybe we are just the better side?

Maybe. Hope so. The series will tell.

At points in time in the third innings they were missing two of their top three bowlers- is it a suprise that attack wore down?
 
Not sure if it’s been mentioned on this thread but Root labelled this pitch as “substandard” and said it too heavily favoured the batsmen. Funny, I thought they were bowled out for 146. So gracious...

England wanted a pitch worse? Did you see your useless batsmen Ellen?
 
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Not sure if it’s been mentioned on this thread but Root labelled this pitch as “substandard” and said it too heavily favoured the batsmen. Funny, I thought they were bowled out for 146. So gracious...

Root whinged about this deck?

Ffs they took the life out of this track because he whinged about the Lord's deck and he has the audacity to whinge when it's not swinging all round the shop?
 

deanc

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Yeah honestly Whiteman’s injuries have annoyed me had him marked at playing 40+ tests he’ll be lucky to get 1 unfortunately. I hope I’m wrong.

Carey is not far off it and 'could' be next in line, but at 27 unfortunately it's hard to coach out bad habits...
 
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Maybe. Hope so. The series will tell.

At points in time in the third innings they were missing two of their top three bowlers- is it a suprise that attack wore down?

It's really hard to know what would have happened but one thing we can say is a fully fit jimmy Anderson was not going to play in this test, for all we know jimmy who wasn't 100 percent bowls some of woakes and broads overs and we never fall to 8/120 in the first place.

As I said earlier if you pick a 37 year old injured player with no match practice and he breaks down you are not unlucky in the slightest.
 
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I was against the year long ban but breaking up that toxic lehmann/smith/warner leadership group was a happy bonus, forget paine it was smith who was a true default skipper simply because he and warner(he was never going to be skipper) were the only people the right age and experience when clarke called it a day but he never showed he was a leader of men or tactically sound he simply got the job because he is a batting freak who was the right age.
Yep, when Clarke retired, the only bats whose place in the team was secure were Smith and Warner. He was never actually much of a captain and leader. That said, Root and Stokes are shocking too.
 
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Oh well, the toss is crucial in England, not too many teams bat first and lose here, unless you're Australia in 2015 and don't even take the game past the halfway mark!!!

Last time I looked at the stats I think it was about 55% to 45%. Not a huge difference really. I remember someone did an analysis about 5 years ago that showed that England's winning record when they lost the toss was actually better than when they won it! That was their record playing everywhere though, not just in England.
 
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Australia had the best of the batting conditions on day 3 and 4, it was a road! But losing your opening bowler after 4 overs of the match doesn't help.

The two hardest days to bat were the first day and the last day. We batted on one of those days and you batted on the other.
 
Carey is not far off it and 'could' be next in line, but at 27 unfortunately it's hard to coach out bad habits...

On the fence with Carey. His actual keeping for me is inconsistent I guess you can call it. He’s an extremely good ODI and t20 player though so there is something there
 

lazy77

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Would your viewpoint change if he underwent a radical transformation into a hirsute gorilla and he pawed you all over and his average stayed in the mid-thirties?

If not, why not? I acknowledge it's unlikely at his age though
Sure, if his average stays at 35, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. It's a good average. It's just hard for me to square it with a player who almost never scores over 35. Does he have a heap of not outs or something? Was he good early on and I just can't remember? It's genuinely weird his average is so high.
 
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Sure, if his average stays at 35, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. It's a good average. It's just hard for me to square it with a player who almost never scores over 40, has never scored a century, and has made very few 50s. Does he have a heap of not outs or something? Was he good early on and I just can't remember? It's genuinely weird his average is so high.

He had a great Ashes series with the bat at home where he was declared on a few times
 

The Passenger

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I do not think Gilly was a good a keeper as Paine.

Healy, Paine, Berry and Marsh the best keepers I seen in this nation but Berry never got a Test as he timed his career at wrong time as another top quality keeper. Gilly worked hard to get good enough to not stuff up much. He really was an allrounder as a batsman that could keep adequately if he worked at it and bat as an allrounder in lower part of batting order. A real freak talent luxury to bat at 7.
Paine's keeping 10 years ago was excellent - 8.5, maybe even 9 out of 10. I would say now it is probably about a 7 to 7.5. A bit better than adequate but he makes some errors that he never would have when he was younger. From the bits I've seen the standard of glovework in Australia is not great so not sure why people are arguing about his position. He has done well to steer the team over the last year and a bit. Tactically I think he's a bit defensive, but I don't think Steve Smith was great tactically either. He is still probably the best gloveman in the domestic scene, and an average of 35 is about right for a wicketkeeper, without being anything amazing. It would be optimistic to think any of the wicketkeeper's at state level would definitely do considerably better with the bat.
 

Blue1980

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It flatters him, since he has never gotten a 100 and very rarely gets to 50. His average will decline fairly quickly unless he undergoes some kind of radical transformation, which seems unlikely at his age.

You do realize there is no one to come in who averages that at shield level?

Maybe Nevill would, but that’s about it
 
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It wasn’t the first day, it was the first session. After lunch it got easier as Siddle showed and Smith himself said.

Must have been watching a different game. We were 3 down going into lunch. A par result for a first session would be 2 down.


After lunch it got easier as Siddle showed and Smith himself said.

Yep. Definitely watching a different game. We lost a wicket within 10 minutes of the resumption and then another one a few minutes later and so on. Even Smith was close to being trapped LBW, surviving a review.
 
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deanc

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Paine's keeping 10 years ago was excellent - 8.5, maybe even 9 out of 10. I would say now it is probably about a 7 to 7.5. A bit better than adequate but he makes some errors that he never would have when he was younger. From the bits I've seen the standard of glovework in Australia is not great so not sure why people are arguing about his position. He has done well to steer the team over the last year and a bit. Tactically I think he's a bit defensive, but I don't think Steve Smith was great tactically either. He is still probably the best gloveman in the domestic scene, and an average of 35 is about right for a wicketkeeper, without being anything amazing. It would be optimistic to think any of the wicketkeeper's at state level would definitely do considerably better with the bat.

Good post, agree with those observations.
Furthermore I consider anticipation is the 'dark-art' determining good wicket keepers and great ones.
You can coach and improve players technical aspects of wicket-keeping, such as footwork, balance, glove positions etc. but anticipation, which is largely an instinctive trait, usually separates good grade or first class keepers from reliable test keepers.
However, anticipation without a solid technical base can and often does make a good keeper look very average, see Wade....
 
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