Is the relationship between CD, AFL and Clubs keeping the game behind

[Ronald Risher]

Pretty interesting post -

Can't believe an AFL journalist would have multiple digs at the open online community

Some pretty good points - how much would our game change if data was opened up, would we get better insights? Do we as fans have to rely on AFL media - Like Marc who has shown he doesn't even understand what stats are available for fans?



As noted by the same person - AFL fans can't even do what he calls basic stats and he hosts the AFL stats podcast and writes the AFL statsfiles. This is a joke when we compare things to overseas sports. This all started because an AFL media journalist on afl.com.au decided to use an outside source - shot charts for us the fans. Why can't fans get shot charts!

 

[KermitJagger]

As a bit of history, there was at one stage multiple data providers - one of whom was used predominantly by Fox Footy. I believe that they were eventually strong-armed out of the picture because of the AFL and their desire to work with only Champion Data.

I don't like it. It's not intuitive to get access to the stats that are available, Champion Data's website is a mess, and I believe to get the access you would require you either need to be a media source, involved in the club or pay an exorbitant amount of money.

 

[craffles]

$$$$$$$

CD can’t charge the AFL, clubs, media etc the money needed to do the stat collecting / analytics and subsequently run their business profitably if every Joe Bloggs has access to the same level of statistics.


Dumb question, dumb thread

 

[Coops93]

I use AFL tables as my go to stat site, it's fairly basic but has most of what you need.

 

[HTT]

I use AFL tables as my go to stat site, it's fairly basic but has most of what you need.

That’s more historical stuff, but it’s still only basic in-game stats. We get such a small amount of all data collected it’s just not funny.

 

[Ronald Risher]

No one said every level of stats - But fans are kept so in the dark they can't do what Marc himself called basic.

Clubs don't even pay for every level of stats so champion themselves can't sell their product and they have a monopoly

 

[Coops93]

Why would AFL clubs use Champion Data and not keep there own statistics? Why rely on an independent source?

I have a feeling they do already, but they still us CD for some things, clearly, which seems a bit redundant to me.

 

[Ronald Risher]

Why would AFL clubs use Champion Data and not keep there own statistics? Why rely on an independent source?

I have a feeling they do already, but they still us CD for some things, clearly, which seems a bit redundant to me.

Clubs do collect data - it seems to have created an underground market where to avoid the soft cap clubs get students to work months on end for free

seems similar to the entertainment industry -companies really on peoples eagerness on a foot in the door and just take advantage of them

 

[Matthew2708]

Champion data has live stats for the nrl on their website - https://mc.championdata.com/nrl/

 

[Belnakor]

Been banging on about this for years tbh.

How do we even know Champion's data is accurate? we don't.

 

[Belnakor]

Clubs do collect data - it seems to have created an underground market where to avoid the soft cap clubs get students to work months on end for free

seems similar to the entertainment industry -companies really on peoples eagerness on a foot in the door and just take advantage of them

I saw an advert where a club was looking for a senior data scientist and they wanted to pay like 80k. The going rate for that kind of role is roughly double that. So the clubs obviously don't appreciate the stats that much.

 

[Ronald Risher]

Been banging on about this for years tbh.

How do we even know Champion's data is accurate? we don't.

Remember dusty martins tackle count last year?

Clearly wrong - weren't able to update it in time of peoples fantasy leagues , not a gambler but what if you were punting on that. No accountability.

 

[Balls In]

Who cares? Stats aren't the be all and end all people think.

 

[Suma Magic]

CD are s**t. That’s the main problem.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Australia is a backwater in so many ways. This is a classic example.

The strongest football league in the comp and the viewers don't have access to advanced stats.

Worse, they don't even seem to care. They just want the players to 'kick it!, 'kick it!'

 

[Belnakor]

Australia is a backwater in so many ways. This is a classic example.

The strongest football league in the comp and the viewers don't have access to advanced stats.

Worse, they don't even seem to care. They just want the players to 'kick it!, 'kick it!'

It isn't a priority for the AFL thats all. Most of head office are dinosaurs who aren't really up with the digital age. Cricinfo has been around for 25 years with a heavy focus on stats.. this isn't exactly a new problem for the AFL. They just don't care.

 

[Belnakor]

CD are s**t. That’s the main problem.

CD seem to think there is more money in charging the clubs 10k a month than they would make selling subscriptions to the general public.

I mean the actual solution is for the AFL to just pay them $$$ to do the stats and make them totally available to everyone but you know that would cost money.

 

[HeavyPop]

I understand why CD want to keep advanced stats unavailable in order to make money off them, but I can't understand why the AFL or whoever owns the footage won't release the behind the goals game footage. Only the 2014 and 15 GF's are available that I know of.

 

[footygdzzz545]

Clubs do collect data - it seems to have created an underground market where to avoid the soft cap clubs get students to work months on end for free

seems similar to the entertainment industry -companies really on peoples eagerness on a foot in the door and just take advantage of them

There is no AFL club in the competition that doesn't have access to CD stats.

I'm not denying they still take advantage of students and junior analysts...but no AFL club is using that kind of workforce to replace champion data statistics altogether.

There is no way they could achieve the same level of data and create all their own proprietary software products of the same calibre to read that data with interns and students....

Having said that analysts at club level definitely are underpaid and over worked.

 

[Belnakor]

Remember dusty martins tackle count last year?

Clearly wrong - weren't able to update it in time of peoples fantasy leagues , not a gambler but what if you were punting on that. No accountability.

they have actually changed their definitions over time, contested possessions have gone up due to them changing the definition of what "contested" is

 

[Ronald Risher]

There is no AFL club in the competition that doesn't have access to CD stats.

I'm not denying they still take advantage of students and junior analysts...but no AFL club is using that kind of workforce to replace champion data statistics altogether.

There is no way they could achieve the same level of data and create all their own proprietary software products of the same calibre to read that data with interns and students....

Having said that analysts at club level definitely are underpaid and over worked.

Sure every club has access, but not every club buys it - isn't that an issue CD has a monopoly and its products aren't good enough that every club would buy.

Do we want a situation whereby clubs get different access to information because of $$$$$

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

CD are s**t. That’s the main problem.

I can understand coaches wanting access to all these stats, but I don't understand why the average footy fan wants them. You know who played well by just watching the game, not by pouring over pages of meaningless numbers.

 

[footygdzzz545]

Sure every club has access, but not every club buys it - isn't that an issue CD has a monopoly and its products aren't good enough that every club would buy.

Do we want a situation whereby clubs get different access to information because of $$$$$

I'm quite sure every club buys access. You don't get access if you dont buy it....

They may differ in what depth of info or additional products they buy but every club would be buying access as without CD they would not have real time access to live stats as they happen during the game. I think the amount of information CD produces for clubs how heavily they rely on it is being extremely under estimated...

 

[Suma Magic]

I can understand coaches wanting access to all these stats, but I don't understand why the average footy fan wants them. You know who played well by just watching the game, not by pouring over pages of meaningless numbers.

Just because other leagues with open stats has led to heaps of interesting analysis. No one is interested in heaps of numbers, just what they can be turned into by the best minds out there. It’s an unecessary monopoly.

 

[HTT]

Why would AFL clubs use Champion Data and not keep there own statistics? Why rely on an independent source?

I have a feeling they do already, but they still us CD for some things, clearly, which seems a bit redundant to me.

For their own games, probably, but I dare say they’d use opposition stats more than their own and for that they’d absolutely use CD.