Our next coach

[Iamcarlton]

Still avoiding the facts, you are blinded by win/loss analysis

In the next 12 months it will hit home, if not sooner

Dont think there's any doubt in what your saying a good/great list can make a coach look a genius but also a poor match day coach can also destroy a teams chances of winning and success .
Bolton was fantastic for the CFC in general but clearly not so good for the match day Carlton team .
Have no doubt that if Bolton was still coach into next year the team no doubt would improve minimally through natural improvement but to nowhere near the level a competent match day coach would see those improvements turn to winning results .
Speculation of course but what we've seen since the coach change is pretty damning towards Boltons match day credentials as someone that could take us to top .
The right decision was made but of course time will tell .

 

[Iamcarlton]

Think I have covered this with numerous posts before and at the start of the season, that we would have a better 2nd half.

I will let you and others change your opinion with each win or loss, credit or bag the coach, based on the week to week outcome, you can add a players formline to that analysis

Simply we are having a better much better second half season because we have replaced an inadequate match day coach with an adequate match day coach allowing the team to reach its potential on match day .

 

[DamianBis]

We look at things from a supporters perspective, but how would you be seeing things if you were....let's say Judd?
e.g. If one didn't rate someone beforehand are a few weeks of good football alone, enough to change your view 180 degrees?

As someone who has been in that position ( less important as I wasn't hiring someone at that level ) I've been wrong about people And changed my opinion relatively quickly... The big thing is why Judd didn't rate Teague and whether Teague has been able to prove that he can handle whatever task/skill it is that Judd may think he's deficient in.

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blue and Blue]

Teague is looking great right now no question, but just playing devils advocate here -

If for whatever reason another is favoured over Teague, what may those reasons be?
(Let's take Clarkson out of he equation, because the answer there would be obvious.)

We look at things from a supporters perspective, but how would you be seeing things if you were....let's say Judd?
e.g. If one didn't rate someone beforehand are a few weeks of good football alone, enough to change your view 180 degrees?

I don't say that from a supporters perspective at all. I say it from a rational common sense point of view.

And don't drag my words into your Judd agenda please.
I think you mean well HARKER, but really when the sky is blue I don't need to be told how it could turn grey any minute.

 

[HARKER]

I don't say that from a supporters perspective at all. I say it from a rational common sense point of view.

And don't drag my words into your Judd agenda please.
I think you mean well HARKER, but really when the sky is blue I don't need to be told how it could turn grey any minute.

? It's about general discussion and not being personal.
Have we too many sensitive souls here that think it's about them? Don't be too precious.

.....and I do mean well and I do like to open up discussion, not close it down because there may be a grey cloud around the corner.

As someone who has been in that position ( less important as I wasn't hiring someone at that level ) I've been wrong about people And changed my opinion relatively quickly... The big thing is why Judd didn't rate Teague and whether Teague has been able to prove that he can handle whatever task/skill it is that Judd may think he's deficient in.

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

You should be allowed to change your opinion, but not because of the voice of others (in our case supporters)
Just throwing it around because right now we're all convinced (and rightly so) that it will be Teague....But what if it's not?

 

[Blue and Blue]

? It's about general discussion and not being personal.
Have we too many sensitive souls here that think it's about them? Don't be too precious.

.....and I do mean well and I do like to open up discussion, not close it down because there may be a grey cloud around the corner.

I arent being personal other than to respond to your words written by you.
You remind me of my dear wife who incessantly invents problems that will never happen. She calls it being prepared for any eventuality. I call it a tremendous waste of energy. But I still love her.........

 

[AndyLucimitis]

As someone who has been in that position ( less important as I wasn't hiring someone at that level ) I've been wrong about people And changed my opinion relatively quickly... The big thing is why Judd didn't rate Teague and whether Teague has been able to prove that he can handle whatever task/skill it is that Judd may think he's deficient in.

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Remember one thing though - it was probably Judd who rubber-stamped Teague to take over as caretaker coach with 11 games to go (not Barker or the others).

Knowing as a club we needed to stem the losses and turn this season around for many reasons, he at least saw something in Teague that warranted this responsibility.

Maybe it was his audition ??

 

[dlb99]

Teague/players have done a wonderful job, since the Bolton departure

As you know, I think coaches play a minimal role

Look up Bill Belichick.
Coaches can have a huge effect.

Bolton was coaching this team poorly.
Teague is coaching this same team much better.

 

[dlb99]

Am listening to Caro on AW now and she has asserted again that Voss is the frontrunner. Who is she getting that info from inside the club? Cain Liddle, ex Richmond?

Caro said Simon Leathlean was going to be the Carlton CEO.

Note, we hired Cain Liddle.

Her Carlton sources are bogus.

 

[Arr0w]

Look up Bill Belichick.
Coaches can have a huge effect.

Bolton was coaching this team poorly.
Teague is coaching this same team much better.

BB is in rare air, but just have a look at how good their list management strategy has been

 

[DamianBis]

You should be allowed to change your opinion, but not because of the voice of others (in our case supporters)
Just throwing it around because right now we're all convinced (and rightly so) that it will be Teague....But what if it's not?

If it's not Teague there will be the usual suspects whinging. And then within a few years we will likely either be talking about the decision the way we talk about picking up Malthouse or the way we talk about getting Parkin back the second time.

It's not a right/wrong decision to make. And because we can't see what would have happened if we hired the other candidate it's always a risk. So all that matters in the end is results.

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HARKER]

I arent being personal other than to respond to your words written by you.
You remind me of my dear wife who incessantly invents problems that will never happen. She calls it being prepared for any eventuality. I call it a tremendous waste of energy. But I still love her.........

Look at it this way. For now we haven't an 'anointed' senior coach.

Teague looks likely but he's not over the line yet, therefore the discussion shouldn't be put to bed.
If Teague was a lock we would have already appointed him in the way North appointed Shaw recently. This makes sense, right?

Do we like the players flying the flag for Teague? I don't. It's not their job and what if they don't get Teague?
Do the players like Teague because he's currently allowing them to breathe, or because they know him to be the best candidate for the job?
As an example of this: It would have been easier playing under Murphy as captain, than it was playing under Hodge.

Should supporters have a say in who should be coach? I don't want that to be the case. Do you and if so, why?

Just saying that I don't quite think it's over and done with in regards to our future coach.

 

[blue healer]

Before the coaching change there were a number of posters who were confidently predicting that we would be much better in the second half of the season than the first. I argued against this with the logic (to me, anyway) that we were playing a lot of kids and history has proven that normally those kids start to tire as the season progresses and most particularly if they are playing in positions where their experience and young bodies were not yet ready to absorb the pressure and maintain a consistent output. I thought we were already starting to see this as our early season form was starting to fall off quite rapidly.

Those people have actually been proven right and don't hesitate to remind us of that. But I still maintain that we would have fallen off as I predicted (even if it's an unprovable argument) if we continued on the track we were on. One definition of stupidity is to continue to do what you've always done and expect a different result and Bolton, to me anyway, wasn't showing any inclination to change things.

In my opinion the difference in our fortunes is down purely to Teague. Some say he hasn't made a lot of changes other than Murphy and Curnow playing positions that better suit their skill sets and if that's all he has done then it was significant. But I think he has done a lot more than that, kids who were struggling are now playing different roles and seem to me to be starting to believe in themselves and the team and have improved, in some cases, significantly.
His match day coaching has proven to be more dynamic, he changes things that are not working and, it seems, all players are well aware of what is required of them.

I like to use Murphy as the prime example of the difference that Teague has made. By refusing to play him in the position that, I think, he believes he is best at I think we were sending him a message that the game was beyond him and I think his form and attitude reflected this. He didn't seem to be happy in his footy, was falling off tackles, token chasing and showing almost zero leadership. I think he was limping towards retirement. If you watch him now he is a vastly different player and looks like he is back to enjoying the game and is in the best form he's been in for years. This, I think, is down to Teague alone and the confidence he has shown in Murph.

I don't know if Teague will prove to be a great coach if given the job but I think he has definitely earned the right to be offered that opportunity.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Look at it this way. For now we haven't an 'anointed' senior coach.

Teague looks likely but he's not over the line yet, therefore the discussion shouldn't be put to bed.
If Teague was a lock we would have already appointed him in the way North appointed Shaw recently. This makes sense, right?

Do we like the players flying the flag for Teague? I don't. It's not their job and what if they don't get Teague?
Do the players like Teague because he's currently allowing them to breathe, or because they know him to be the best candidate for the job?
As an example of this: It would have been easier playing under Murphy as captain, than it was playing under Hodge.

Should supporters have a say in who should be coach? I don't want that to be the case. Do you and if so, why?

Just saying that I don't quite think it's over and done with in regards to our future coach.

Do they need to be mutually exclusive?

I would argue getting the best out of the players makes the best coach, and teague is getting the best out this group.

Supporters and players aren't lobbying for teague because he's a top bloke or that he says all the right things at pressers. They're lobbying for him because whatever he's doing is working.......plus he's a top bloke and he says all the right things at pressers.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Look at it this way. For now we haven't an 'anointed' senior coach.

Teague looks likely but he's not over the line yet, therefore the discussion shouldn't be put to bed.
If Teague was a lock we would have already appointed him in the way North appointed Shaw recently. This makes sense, right?

Do we like the players flying the flag for Teague? I don't. It's not their job and what if they don't get Teague?
Do the players like Teague because he's currently allowing them to breathe, or because they know him to be the best candidate for the job?
As an example of this: It would have been easier playing under Murphy as captain, than it was playing under Hodge.

Should supporters have a say in who should be coach? I don't want that to be the case. Do you and if so, why?

Just saying that I don't quite think it's over and done with in regards to our future coach.

Look the sky is blue....are you sure?...maybe its khaki with stripes.
All the questions are to me as I said just a waste of energy.
I know where your coming from mate. But I just can't be bothered with all that over intense scrutiny. Second guessing what one knows is right is the surest way to failure in my book.

But my answers ......

The discussion isn't put to bed......but parts of it are pointless and some is plain wrong.

I haven't seen players flying any flag. But I have seen them be honest when asked direct questions. With a bit of tongue in cheek with it because they know how the media game works.
And in the end the only way to support a coach is give your all. Words are nothing in footy.

The players like Teague because they have won games doing it his way. Pretty simple.

The supporters always have a say in an indirect way, by bums on seats mostly, but I dont agree with this petition type stuff.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

To summarize this debate:

David teague is doing everything right and getting the best out of the group.

But Michael Voss and Brad Scott could be anything. They might even do everything right and get the best out of the group.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

The tide has fully turned now I believe (Supporters, media, players)

The 'safe' choice for coach is now Teague !!

 

[Blue and Blue]

To summarize this debate:

David teague is doing everything right and getting the best out of the group.

But Michael Voss and Brad Scott could be anything. They might even do everything right and get the best out of the group.

No No No........If Voss was it all the players will move to Queensland......

 

[JustaBattler]

I like Teague's fighting spirit all dressed up in calm and simple delivery. We all like Teague's demonstrated ability to get a result under difficult circumstances. What makes the prospect of Teague appealing to my romantic side is that he was a former player at Carlton and I think that this carries some weight as far as the next leg of the journey - and that is a young coach who used to wear the Blue - won an AFl most courageous whilst doing so in tough times, and against all the odds and despite 'training wheels' got the backing of the Club for the next leg of the journey.

Teague has elevated the general opinion of Carlton as being a Club with potential - to a Club that presents serious competition.

It is a good story and a story that appeals to supporters as well as media - but as i look at what he has done with regards to managing players I see a lot of clever micro management and repurposing - all of which have paid dividends on field - some decisions not so easy either.

He was prepared to drop McGovern - a player he is obviously close to and rates highly. This probably also won him a lot of respect from the playing group. Similar thinking has applied with respect to the way he brought Thomas back into the team ( clean sheet) got Phillips to perform better than ever previously seen ( clean sheet), was smart enough to put SPS behind the ball, beefed up the on ball brigade, is willing to drop Dow, isn't rushing Cuningham or Stocker back into the side, given Kennedy and SOJ a new lease of life, rotated Walsh from wing to on ball in clever manner, freed up Setterfield and LoB to play to their strengths etc etc etc...

Maybe Carlton could cop Clarkson as the lowest risk 'proven' messiah coach - but it would be a brave board that pushed Taegue aside and went for a Scott or Voss or even Hinkley in preference.

 

[Aphrodite]

To summarize this debate:

David teague is doing everything right and getting the best out of the group.

But Michael Voss and Brad Scott could be anything. They might even do everything right and get the best out of the group.

No.

 

[blue healer]

Look at it this way. For now we haven't an 'anointed' senior coach.

Teague looks likely but he's not over the line yet, therefore the discussion shouldn't be put to bed.
If Teague was a lock we would have already appointed him in the way North appointed Shaw recently. This makes sense, right?

Do we like the players flying the flag for Teague? I don't. It's not their job and what if they don't get Teague?
Do the players like Teague because he's currently allowing them to breathe, or because they know him to be the best candidate for the job?
As an example of this: It would have been easier playing under Murphy as captain, than it was playing under Hodge.

Should supporters have a say in who should be coach? I don't want that to be the case. Do you and if so, why?

Just saying that I don't quite think it's over and done with in regards to our future coach.

I don't think that supporters should be instrumental in selecting the coach but I do think their opinions should be taken into some degree of consideration. We live in different times now where supporter opinion is much more readily available to the club in making important decisions and, probably, should have more weight than the media.

Whether you like player power or not, it also shouldn't be dismissed outright. Player power put Roos into the Swans job which resulted in their first flag in eons and I'd propose that subsequent player buy in had no small part to play.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I like Teague's fighting spirit all dressed up in calm and simple delivery. We all like Teague's demonstrated ability to get a result under difficult circumstances. What makes the prospect of Teague appealing to my romantic side is that he was a former player at Carlton and I think that this carries some weight as far as the next leg of the journey - and that is a young coach who used to wear the Blue - won an AFl most courageous whilst doing so in tough times, and against all the odds and despite 'training wheels' got the backing of the Club for the next leg of the journey.

Teague has elevated the general opinion of Carlton as being a Club with potential - to a Club that presents serious competition.

It is a good story and a story that appeals to supporters as well as media - but as i look at what he has done with regards to managing players I see a lot of clever micro management and repurposing - all of which have paid dividends on field - some decisions not so easy either.

He was prepared to drop McGovern - a player he is obviously close to and rates highly. This probably also won him a lot of respect from the playing group. Similar thinking has applied with respect to the way he brought Thomas back into the team ( clean sheet) got Phillips to perform better than ever previously seen ( clean sheet), was smart enough to put SPS behind the ball, beefed up the on ball brigade, is willing to drop Dow, isn't rushing Cuningham or Stocker back into the side, given Kennedy and SOJ a new lease of life, rotated Walsh from wing to on ball in clever manner, freed up Setterfield and LoB to play to their strengths etc etc etc...

Maybe Carlton could cop Clarkson as the lowest risk 'proven' messiah coach - but it would be a brave board that pushed Taegue aside and went for a Scott or Voss or even Hinkley in preference.

Best post in this whole debate right there JaB.

No offence to anyone else.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

No No No........If Voss was it all the players will move to Queensland......

yeah my point is that the best case scenario is that voss et al do what teague is doing now.

ie why take chance on someone else when it's working right now

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I like Teague's fighting spirit all dressed up in calm and simple delivery. We all like Teague's demonstrated ability to get a result under difficult circumstances. What makes the prospect of Teague appealing to my romantic side is that he was a former player at Carlton and I think that this carries some weight as far as the next leg of the journey - and that is a young coach who used to wear the Blue - won an AFl most courageous whilst doing so in tough times, and against all the odds and despite 'training wheels' got the backing of the Club for the next leg of the journey.

Teague has elevated the general opinion of Carlton as being a Club with potential - to a Club that presents serious competition.

It is a good story and a story that appeals to supporters as well as media - but as i look at what he has done with regards to managing players I see a lot of clever micro management and repurposing - all of which have paid dividends on field - some decisions not so easy either.

He was prepared to drop McGovern - a player he is obviously close to and rates highly. This probably also won him a lot of respect from the playing group. Similar thinking has applied with respect to the way he brought Thomas back into the team ( clean sheet) got Phillips to perform better than ever previously seen ( clean sheet), was smart enough to put SPS behind the ball, beefed up the on ball brigade, is willing to drop Dow, isn't rushing Cuningham or Stocker back into the side, given Kennedy and SOJ a new lease of life, rotated Walsh from wing to on ball in clever manner, freed up Setterfield and LoB to play to their strengths etc etc etc...

Maybe Carlton could cop Clarkson as the lowest risk 'proven' messiah coach - but it would be a brave board that pushed Taegue aside and went for a Scott or Voss or even Hinkley in preference.

Great post and I say this with an unblemished record of heterosexuality ...... but it doesn't hurt that Teague is also a good looking rooster.

The Blues are sexy again !!!! We're back baby !!!

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Maybe Carlton could cop Clarkson as the lowest risk 'proven' messiah coach - but it would be a brave board that pushed Taegue aside and went for a Scott or Voss or even Hinkley in preference.

incompetent*