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QuietB said:
Yes. Each individual position.

You made the statement and presented it as fact. Back it up.
Click to expand...

I did in the link I quoted and in the follow up to your fellow crier.
There are plenty of jobs...that's why we need to continuously give special visas to 150,000+ international backpackers every year.
They mightn't be jobs that every one likes, or suits their skill set, or their 'supposed' educational standard...but they beat the hell out of sitting on your arse and complaining how 'life is doing you wrong' and it's all the Government's fault.
And, in most cases, if you show a bit of initiative and work ethic, they will lead to something better.
Gough said:
You want Australia to go into recession because you don't like the unwaged? I bet you'd call yourself a patriot too.
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Oh Gough, you sitting there in your quaint little Adelaide book-shop and railing against the world's injustices as you take another toke on a bong is what makes me wake up in the morning.
Just to laugh at you.
 
Craven Morehead said:
What, each individual position?
Are you disputing that we give visa's to 150,000 international backpackers annually to fulfill a need?
A need that young unemployed Aussies refuse to consider because, it's all too hard.
I did post a link to this earlier.
I really, really hope we have a huge recession so these spoon-fed, mother-hugging, lazy s**ts are forced into the work-place.




What, and put up with your pathetic excuses again?

If you can't get a job in an abattoir, as a fruit picker, as a fencer, as a stationhand, as a general labourer...it goes on and on and on...well, you simply don't want a job enough.
And people can sit in their hovel and whinge and bitch all they like...but the jobs are out there if they are prepared to do it tough for a while, travel and WORK.
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No, actually, so I can sit down and work out exactly how much it might cost to move somewhere in order to work one of those jobs, if the transition from urban to rural - or whatever - is possible on the Dole, with or without any of its offshoot payments.

After all, it's better to say something with evidence to support it, no?

Give me a single job, available at any given location, advertised right now.
 
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Craven Morehead said:
What, each individual position?
Are you disputing that we give visa's to 150,000 international backpackers annually to fulfill a need?
A need that young unemployed Aussies refuse to consider because, it's all too hard.
I did post a link to this earlier.
I really, really hope we have a huge recession so these spoon-fed, mother-hugging, lazy s**ts are forced into the work-place.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone want those shitty jobs when you get paid $150k a year to dig coal out of someone’s farm?

And the whole time I’m doing it I can be pleased that I am doing gods work.

* fruit picking
 

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Currently Seek lists 750 farming sector jobs, of which 125 are farm labour roles, this is hardly a large number of jobs.

A selection of those roles.

Livestock and Cropping farm hand

It says join a team of three. The Job Role includes, but not limited, livestock and cropping management, manual labour, fencing repairs, seeding and harvest roles and heavy machinery and truck operation.

Successful applicant must have a HC Licence or above.

Livestock and Cropping Farm Hand Job in Whyalla & Eyre Peninsula

Merino Sheep and Grains Producer seeking vital team member
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

Vineyard Hand

Tasks include retic repair, weed spraying, vehicle pre checks, equipment Operation (Tractors, Loaders, Mini Excavators).

Horticulture/Agriculture Certificate

Vineyard Hand Job in Perth

To do the successful working relationship with this client TRS Resourcing is currently looking for an experienced ground's maintenance workers,
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

General farm hand

Primarily responsible for operating different machinery including header, boom spray, seeder and truck.

Must have two years experience.

General Farm Hand, Mullewa, WA (REF 153007) Job in Geraldton, Gascoyne & Midwest

Our client, a progressive farming family who are enthusiastic about their business are looking for a like-minded individual to join their enterprise!
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

Farm hand

Tasks include milking (4 yr-old, rapid exit herringbone dairy with cup-removers), general stock work. feeding cattle (front end loader experience useful) and fencing.

no accommodation is provided.

Dairy Farm vacancy Job in Bairnsdale & Gippsland

We have one vacancy for a farm hand on our family-owned, organic dairy farm. Good conditions, in a team environment. Opportunity to learn.
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au
 
aaaand...if we took away the 150,000 backpackers currently being employed because Aussies are too lazy, or can produce a million excuses NOT to do this work?
How many vacancies would there be then?

SEEK?
Hardly the go to place for positions vacant in the rural sector.
 
QuietB said:
Why would anyone want those s**tty jobs when you get paid $150k a year to dig coal out of someone’s farm?

And the whole time I’m doing it I can be pleased that I am doing gods work.

fu** fruit picking
Click to expand...

The drug and alcohol testing regime would preclude most from the mining game.
That, and having to leave mummy's tender caress.
 
Geez, fruit picking isn't that bloody bad. I've picked tomatoes, blueberries and kiwi fruits in the past and enjoyed every one of them - working outside, fresh air, constant exercise, hot foreigners...

Admittedly, I did all of these in my late teens - I imagine it would be far less enjoyable now in my mid 30s. Still, I'd rather that than to live on the dole and have to deal with the useless campaigners at Centrelink.

I also grew up in bum-* Victoria, so these farms were all within a bike ride's distance and I never had to relocate.
 
Craven Morehead said:
aaaand...if we took away the 150,000 backpackers currently being employed because Aussies are too lazy, or can produce a million excuses NOT to do this work?
How many vacancies would there be then?

SEEK?
Hardly the go to place for positions vacant in the rural sector.
Click to expand...

Isn't a lot of that seasonal work? Or is that not the case?

where would one look for work in rural areas?
 
Bombermania said:
Currently Seek lists 750 farming sector jobs, of which 125 are farm labour roles, this is hardly a large number of jobs.

A selection of those roles.

Livestock and Cropping farm hand

It says join a team of three. The Job Role includes, but not limited, livestock and cropping management, manual labour, fencing repairs, seeding and harvest roles and heavy machinery and truck operation.

Successful applicant must have a HC Licence or above.

Livestock and Cropping Farm Hand Job in Whyalla & Eyre Peninsula

Merino Sheep and Grains Producer seeking vital team member
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

Vineyard Hand

Tasks include retic repair, weed spraying, vehicle pre checks, equipment Operation (Tractors, Loaders, Mini Excavators).

Horticulture/Agriculture Certificate

Vineyard Hand Job in Perth

To do the successful working relationship with this client TRS Resourcing is currently looking for an experienced ground's maintenance workers,
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

General farm hand

Primarily responsible for operating different machinery including header, boom spray, seeder and truck.

Must have two years experience.

General Farm Hand, Mullewa, WA (REF 153007) Job in Geraldton, Gascoyne & Midwest

Our client, a progressive farming family who are enthusiastic about their business are looking for a like-minded individual to join their enterprise!
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

Farm hand

Tasks include milking (4 yr-old, rapid exit herringbone dairy with cup-removers), general stock work. feeding cattle (front end loader experience useful) and fencing.

no accommodation is provided.

Dairy Farm vacancy Job in Bairnsdale & Gippsland

We have one vacancy for a farm hand on our family-owned, organic dairy farm. Good conditions, in a team environment. Opportunity to learn.
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au
Click to expand...


Wait. You're saying former engine plant workers from Ford, or former accountants, project managers and customer service staff at NAB, Telstra and Coles Myer can't just walk into a farming job? This is crazy talk!
 
DaRick said:
Agree 100%, but my experiences with Jobactive (which in fairness were some years back), suggests that in practice they can't often do this because the employment consultants are overworked and lack genuine recruitment and business expertise. DES is better but the same problems are often still apparent.



myGov IMO isn't particularly user-friendly and older job seekers in particular may need help negotiating it. Is this assistance provided?



I've spoken to a few people who used to work in meatworks and they told me some pretty disturbing stories.

With respect, I reckon that 90% of people (foreigners and Australians alike) couldn't work in one for long without developing physical/psychological issues - so IMO there's probably not much point relocating to work in one unless it's relatively close by (like in a neighbouring town). I'm ignoring issues like cultural fit as well because I'm not sure how relevant that is in meatworks (it matters in professional environments).

RE the rural sector, there's IMO nothing wrong with relocating to work there, provided that the work is stable, suitable and paid well enough to offset any cost (financial and otherwise) of relocating. My understanding could be entirely wrong, but I was under the impression that backpackers were drafted in for seasonal, minimum wage work - which I don't think a reasonable person would relocate for because you lose too much of your money relocating back and forth.
Click to expand...

Backpackers will do things like fruit picking for shitty money, a large portion of which is taken by the property owner for board because they let them sleep on the floor in an old shearing shed and cook them a couple of snags.
 

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At the end of the day, all of this arguing backwards and forwards is really pointless. If people don't / won't work, we're not going to let them starve to death and we certainly don't want them breaking into our homes and cars and robbing us to survive, so just give them the money and be done with it.

Save all the billions on compliance and enforcement and build share houses where people can live and pool their resources, perhaps have a facilitator living in it too, to teach life skills, cooking, budgeting, gardening etc etc. Build drop in centres where they can hang out, maybe learn some skills, use computers for job seeking etc etc.

It's gotta be cheaper than the hard line approach that we currently have.
 
sorted said:
Rental assistance is about $280 per month. Good luck finding a house for that. But most people in Australia don't rent and there's no assistance for mortgage payments. There will be many people having that awkward conversation with their bank and some facing foreclosure.

The health care card provides discounts for some expenses eg 17.5 per cent off gas and electricity - but the kicker is that if you are unemployed you will be at home more and be using more gas and electricity. Then you still have to find the other 82.5% of the bill when energy prices have increased by over 70% in the last 10 years. Newstart, which is indexed linked, has risen about 20% over the last 10 years. So the value of the health care card discount has significantly declined.

Clearly there will be some people rorting the system, and kids still living with parents who have no bills who can get by on $40 a day. But the Newstart allowance is grossly inadequate for the average person who has bills for rent/mortgage, house insurance, rates, energy, phone, car etc.
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Yeah, I don't think that's how rent assistance works. $280 + your own contribution from your payments.
 
sorted said:
Wait. You're saying former engine plant workers from Ford, or former accountants, project managers and customer service staff at NAB, Telstra and Coles Myer can't just walk into a farming job? This is crazy talk!
Click to expand...

Of course it is crazy to think those groups would suit farm roles, and that was part of the point because none of those people you list would pass the qualifications or experience needed, and when it comes to the basis farm hand roles, the farmers/employers would look at those job seekers and know full well that they wont stay long because they will more than likely find those roles boring and from a recruitment angle those roles wont help them find roles in their previous line of work.
 
Bombermania said:
Of course it is crazy to think those groups would suit farm roles, and that was part of the point because none of those people you list would pass the qualifications or experience needed, and when it comes to the basis farm hand roles, the farmers/employers would look at those job seekers and know full well that they wont stay long because they will more than likely find those roles boring and from a recruitment angle those roles wont help them find roles in their previous line of work.
Click to expand...

I was agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
Bombermania said:
I gathered that, I was simply adding to it because I find people that talk up a job for job sake don't seem to fully understand the labour market.
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There's a bit of deliberate misinterpretation of my stance going on here by some.
Obviously, I'm not referring to unemployed skilled professionals coming out here and driving a tractor or going fencing.

What is youth unemployment rate again?
 
RBA boss says raising Newstart more effective than tax cuts for the wealthy

RBA Governor Philip Lowe supports an increase in Newstart to boost the economy. Source: AAP

Reserve Bank of Australia Governor Philip Lowe says despite growth being revised down for 2019, there are signs the economy has reached a "turning point".

Labor MP Alicia Payne questioned whether tax cuts for the wealthy or raising unemployment benefits would have a bigger economic benefit. "In the short run I think you get more stimulus from giving money to people who have a high propensity to spend that money so that's obviously lower income people, so in the short run I think the answer to that is pretty clear," Dr Lowe told the committee.

Looking at the longer term was more complicated, he said.

"We've got to think about the incentives for work and innovation and reward. It may be in the longer run having low tax rate on people who earn higher income either through entrepreneurship or other reasons actually stimulates more growth in the economy so everyone can be better off."

It's not the first time Dr Lowe has publicly backed an increase to the $277-a-week Newstart payment, but he stopped short of calling on the government to raise the amount by $75 as welfare groups are demanding. "Increased spending there would see greater spending in the economy, but it's a balance. The government has to decide where best to spend its scarce resources."

Dr Lowe used the hearing to outline an optimistic view of Australia's economy declaring the nation may have reached a "gentle turning point", paving the way for growth to pick up again next year. But Dr Lowe again reminded governments there is more they could do to get the economy moving, as uncertainty borne of global trade tensions continues to swirl. The central bank this week revised down its growth forecast for 2019, from 2.75 per cent to 2.5 per cent.

www.sbs.com.au

RBA boss says raising Newstart more effective than tax cuts for the wealthy

Reserve Bank of Australia Governor Philip Lowe says despite growth being revised down for 2019, there are signs the economy has reached a "turning point".
www.sbs.com.au www.sbs.com.au
 
Craven Morehead said:
There's a bit of deliberate misinterpretation of my stance going on here by some.
Obviously, I'm not referring to unemployed skilled professionals coming out here and driving a tractor or going fencing.

What is youth unemployment rate again?
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I was talking generally.

Your comment about Seek shows us part of the problem because for many job seekers, when they turn up to their job network provider, they are basically directed to sit in front of a computer and look at Seek.
 
Craven Morehead said:
So, our unemployed won't work in an abattoir ,because of a plethora of excuses being thrown around here.
Nor will they work in the rural sector full-stop. Because...excuses.
Now we have to, yet again, expand our backpacker visa scheme to fill a yawning gap in labour requirements and availability.
There's already 150,000 overseas backpackers filling the gap!!
Get off your arse and get a job you bludgers!
www.abc.net.au

Indians, Mexicans set for Aussie work under backpacker visa expansion plan

A new international video campaign calling Australia "the best workplace in the world" is part of an effort to attract farm workers.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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The reality is, there is more work than people.

Evidenced by your examples, not having recycling in our own nation, under serviced health and aged care etc

The issue is connecting workers with opportunities, teaching people how to see opportunities and motivating people to grab opportunities.

Sadly we have an education system and culture that teaches rights but not responsibility.

This is a separate debate though to increasing the dole.



We should increase the dole but we should also have work for the dole. Participation is important for mental health which is an ever increasing issue for our society.
 
Power Raid said:
Participation is important for mental health which is an ever increasing issue for our society.
Click to expand...
This.

A revamping of the WFTD system - to have people on the dole doing internships/entry-level positions with the possibility of moving to full employment after the trial period - would be vastly superior to the current system.
 
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