Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

[BrunoV]

The jacket wave
Hirds hug

This is what is missing.

Throat slit motion.

Went ballistic at the players after the 96 prelim loss, I think? Almost lost the players, or so the legend goes. I'm just a bit unsure about the year.

Plenty of examples of Sheedy being emotional. Just need to have a careful think about it.

 

[citizen-erased]

I want a premiership, but I also know knee jerk reactions like the some that are being spewed out at the moment is also, not the answer.

I have seen a lot of stupid s**t said by the supporters of this club over this year. From, let’s get a bloke with a hard edge, like Barry Hall to coach the club. To, some of the comments above me that want Brad Scott, like what?

I want supporters to not drive the club into making a silly decision. Sacking Woosha right now would be at the top of the list.

Yeah
Im willing to move on given the injuries. But something has to be done about the fitness staff.
This is 2012 levels of diabolical ruining a season of promise.

A year with Caracella working on the forwards and ball movement, another year with Rutten's defensive strategy, and some luck with fitness not playing guys who aren't ready in hope, and i'll judge then.

 

[BrunoV]

Other general thing I want to address is the footy department soft cap.

We basically just pay a tax on the amount to which the cap is exceeded.

It's irrelevant because we have the money and because we ultimately cannot afford not to move on now.

This idea that Caracella will just takeover next year is ridiculous. We'd be up to 5 years post supplements saga end of treading water if that were to happen.

 

[Lore]

Is Kelly being move on also?

Kelly is in some sort of development role, I think maybe a line coach with the VFL team or something similar. Would still be working with the younger AFL players and supporting group training. As far as we know he'll still be at Essendon next year (or at least I hope so, much respect for him).

I don't know how deep the Richmond clean out was prior to their flag but the publicised part was about the line coaches, the ones that directly assist the head coach being let go, which is the parallel I'm drawing here.

We have five of those, which is the three line coaches and two senior assistants that do team defence/offence respectively as well as game day strategy, opposition scouting etc. Three will have been changed over in the last year by the time the 2020 preseason starts.

(edit to update the time frame since Ben Rutten was hired - he started at the beginning of the 2019 pre-season, which was announced in late August last year)

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Have read some comments which are dismissive of Worsfold's lack of emotion and the contrast with Clarkson.

I think the face value interpretation gets to the heart of the issue.

I think we assume the club pays money for a coach, someone invested in the team and someone we can identify with, paticularly when things are not going well. We expect the coach is there to lead the players through tough times, etc.

I don't think anyone agreed to pay $800k a year for someone to leave it to the players to figure out.

After all we are people and AFL footballers are people too. Is it so impossible the lay understanding is the same as the players? I doubt the players are that different to normal people.

When the wheels fall off as they so frequently do, does anyone see Worsfold leading the group out of it? Is there any evidence he has?

I don't buy into any of this "millennials are different" buzzspeak. I have found that kids starting out in my profession 7 to 10 years after I started all seem to face the same struggles, respond to the same feedback/constructive criticism except to the extent they are fed bulls**t by the profession, etc (which is easy enough to talk them down from).

Anecdotally, the authoritarians have had relationships with their players which appear to be stronger than any other coach. Malthouse (Collingwood), Clarkson and Lyon were and are all loved by their players.

I can accept players earning freedom from the tyranny of the coach. The suggestion that EFC players have earned that freedom is laughable beyond description.

There is no greater horseshit (and it’s in all walks of life, not just footy) than this “millennial” garbage.

I can’t believe people buy into this s**t. It’s bullshit sprouted by management consultants to justify this fees.

Every generation does it. Remember Gen Y? Those *ers! Now it’s the exact same s**t but with “millennials”.

Treat people normally and with respect, ffs.

 

[CBombers17]

I'm not sure getting a bake actually works on a player, it's probably a good way to let off steam for a coach however. Personally I never respected a coach screaming at me but maybe I was soft or something.

A well known book on coaching 'The talent Code', talks about the best coaches accross many sports including tennis, soccer, college basketball as being very quiet and instructional in their methodology. Barely any positive or negative feedback (from memory 5 to 10 % of the communications were either positive or negative). The focus was on a lot of instructional information about slight corrections and adjustment in technical areas without a huge amount of animation. These were the best coaches in the world in their respective areas at the time. It seems that people being coached improve best this way rather that getting screamed at in other sports but maybe they could learn something from the old school Aussie rules bake?

There has been at least this much research into effective coaching to suggest that how things were done in the AFL 20 years ago may actually be counter productive and may rightly have changed.

Edit: I'd add that is possible that great coaches like Sheedy and Clarkson may be very good instructional coaches (or oversee great programs that focus on this) and do well - despite screaming at players, losing their s**t and punching holes in the walls etc - rather than because of this.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Have read some comments which are dismissive of Worsfold's lack of emotion and the contrast with Clarkson.

I think the face value interpretation gets to the heart of the issue.

I think we assume the club pays money for a coach, someone invested in the team and someone we can identify with, paticularly when things are not going well. We expect the coach is there to lead the players through tough times, etc.

I don't think anyone agreed to pay $800k a year for someone to leave it to the players to figure out.

After all we are people and AFL footballers are people too. Is it so impossible the lay understanding is the same as the players? I doubt the players are that different to normal people.

When the wheels fall off as they so frequently do, does anyone see Worsfold leading the group out of it? Is there any evidence he has?

I don't buy into any of this "millennials are different" buzzspeak. I have found that kids starting out in my profession 7 to 10 years after I started all seem to face the same struggles, respond to the same feedback/constructive criticism except to the extent they are fed bulls**t by the profession, etc (which is easy enough to talk them down from).

Anecdotally, the authoritarians have had relationships with their players which appear to be stronger than any other coach. Malthouse (Collingwood), Clarkson and Lyon were and are all loved by their players.

I can accept players earning freedom from the tyranny of the coach. The suggestion that EFC players have earned that freedom is laughable beyond description.

My memory from 160 point thrashing against the Hawks was Sheeds’ calmness.

When the wheels fall off as they so frequently do, does anyone see Worsfold leading the group out of it? Is there any evidence he has?

What exactly do you expect to see on the ground in front of the cameras? How do any of us know what he does outside the cameras?

 

[Zach Package]

What exactly do you expect to see on the ground in front of the cameras? How do any of us know what he does outside the cameras?

If he didn’t do it with a hardcam shoved up his colon it doesn’t count Barry

 

[Bunk Moreland]

While none of us actually know what Worsfold is like around the players, we do know one thing from their performance:

It clearly doesn’t work consistently.

So of course people will diagnose what they can see, and that’s him sitting there like a wax dummy.

 

[CBombers17]

Woosha sits calmly and peacefully as the Zen master. Observing and waiting for the perfect time to make his one decisive and victorious move ..."send Cale forward...NOW!!"

 

[BrunoV]

My memory from 160 point thrashing against the Hawks was Sheeds’ calmness.



What exactly do you expect to see on the ground in front of the cameras? How do any of us know what he does outside the cameras?

My point was much more about his general attitude reflecting a player empowerment model that has been an abject failure.

The players clearly need a firm hand, and all indications are that Worsfold is not that style of mentor.

If you want to nitpick, what exactly is the point of coaching from the sidelines if you just sit there silently?

The point of being down there is to interact with the players. To me it looks like something he does for the sake of it .

 

[mike14]

There is no greater horses**t (and it’s in all walks of life, not just footy) than this “millennial” garbage.

I can’t believe people buy into this s**t. It’s bulls**t sprouted by management consultants to justify this fees.

Every generation does it. Remember Gen Y? Those f***ers! Now it’s the exact same s**t but with “millennials”.

Treat people normally and with respect, ffs.

Millennials are Gen Y

Millennials - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Everyone just gets it wrong and uses it to describe 17-21 year olds...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

The jacket wave
Hirds hug

This is what is missing.

The upside down phone

 

[anst1ssa]

What happened this week?

Even for the VFL team sitting 2nd to lose by nearly 100 points means something must be up....

 

[Sockeye]

Since the Caracella appointment for 2020 our form has fallen off a cliff. Yes injuries. Yes our form was sliding (Gold Coast game).

But is it Coincidence or is there more to it?

 

[Beerfish]

Since the Caracella appointment for 2020 our form has fallen off a cliff. Yes injuries. Yes our form was sliding (Gold Coast game).

But is it Coincidence or is there more to it?

What do you mean like the team making a pact to play like absolute crud, embarrassing themselves and the club for the last 3 rounds in order to get Worsfold sacked asap so Caracella can step straight into the head coach role at the end of this season?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What do you mean like the team making a pact to play like absolute crud, embarrassing themselves and the club for the last 3 rounds in order to get Worsfold sacked asap so Caracella can step straight into the head coach role at the end of this season?

Can you really dismiss it?

Not the players directly of course, but what is going on in this coaches box? How happy and productive a place can it be?

I’ll tell you one thing, there’s a fair bit of evidence that none of the coaches did anything effective in preparation for or during Saturday’s game.

 

[Fin ice Smuggler]

Since the Caracella appointment for 2020 our form has fallen off a cliff. Yes injuries. Yes our form was sliding (Gold Coast game).

But is it Coincidence or is there more to it?

Coincidence. Our stats weren't great for several weeks beforehand, we just managed to stay close in games and had a good last quarter or 2 in the case of Crows.

The good teams know how to work us out. Win the contested ball and as a fail safe get numbers behind the ball, we play dumb football, will kick poorly into the forward line where opposition have their numbers, they gather posession and we are out of position because we have over committed.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

What do you mean like the team making a pact to play like absolute crud, embarrassing themselves and the club for the last 3 rounds in order to get Worsfold sacked asap so Caracella can step straight into the head coach role at the end of this season?

Not necessarily making a pact. It's definitely mental, and hard to explain. I think it's been happening subconsciously for a while now and we've just hit breaking point.

I think within the playing group they know deep down they don't have a chance in the finals (if they make it, that is). They'll get smashed in the Elimination just like 2017 all over again.

I think it would be pretty demoralising if you're one of the 11th-22nd players on the list. You know you're not one of the best, and you know who exactly is the best. They know they normally can rely on their stars to carry them over the line. But with most of them out, unfit or coming off an injury; I think there would be some anxiety for a lot of those depth players. It spreads amongst the playing group. Out of 22 on the park, you need at least 20 up and firing. If a handful aren't firing, you're essentially stuffed.

When a highly credited assistant gets announced he's coming to the club, there's probably a fair few of the players (if not, most) who think this is the end of Woosha, so why bother? It's a bit like when your English teacher is away sick, and there's a substitute coming to replace him. You really don't care. You just go into auto-pilot mode because your work under the substitute doesn't matter. Not a perfect analogy, but I hope you understand what I mean.

So pretty much, I think these last couple weeks,it's a mixture of;

- Poor coaching. We have a young, inexperienced list. Woosha's "sit back and watch" approach might work if you've got an old list, but not with a young one.
- Injuries. I hate this scapegoat, but it is definitely a factor.
- Poor list management. No genuine big bodied inside mids, undersized midfield, lack of pace on the wings.
- Poor selection. Picking poor VFL players like McNiece and Myers when we *know* they're garbage. Trying to re-invent players in different positions.

 

[Beerfish]

Can you really dismiss it?

Yep.

We've reached the injury tipping point. People can bang on about the other stuff until the cows come home if they like but really that's what I think it boils down to. The team is simply cooked.

 

[Beerfish]

When a highly credited assistant gets announced he's coming to the club, there's probably a fair few of the players (if not, most) who think this is the end of Woosha, so why bother? It's a bit like when your English teacher is away sick, and there's a substitute coming to replace him. You really don't care. You just go into auto-pilot mode because your work under the substitute doesn't matter. Not a perfect analogy, but I hope you understand what I mean.

Yeah I do but I don't agree at all that that's what we're seeing. 90% of the rest of your post can be traced back to what happens when a team is decimated with injury.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Yep.

We've reached the injury tipping point. People can bang on about the other stuff until the cows come home if they like but really that's what I think it boils down to. The team is simply cooked.

Perhaps if we simply played poorly.

Saturday night was a Gold Coast-level performance. Something much deeper was wrong than our injury list.

Have a look at the team we put out and tell me they’re not capable of more than going nearly 4 quarters without a goal while conceding 21. Of losing the disposal count 445 - 320 and I50s 66 - 37.

A VFL team genuinely would’ve performed better.

 

[Beerfish]

Perhaps if we simply played poorly.

Saturday night was a Gold Coast-level performance. Something much deeper was wrong than our injury list.

Have a look at the team we put out and tell me they’re not capable of more than going nearly 4 quarters without a goal while conceding 21. Of losing the disposal count 445 - 320 and I50s 66 - 37.

A VFL team genuinely would’ve performed better.

With the bolded I really don't think there is. Even the 22 out there weren't fit. Heppell and Raz shouldn't have been out there for a start. Not convinced Hooker should have been either. I'm sure there's probably others.

 

[DapperJong]

gee whiz

 

[Bunk Moreland]

With the bolded I really don't think there is. Even the 22 out there weren't fit. Heppell and Raz shouldn't have been out there for a start. Not convinced Hooker should have been either. I'm sure there's probably others.

You honestly think a performance like that - probably the worst of any club this season - is all down to injury?

The players simply refused to compete.