Autopsy Rd 21 Blues luck dries up in the wet

[Juddrockz]

Just got back from the G
Ordinary first quarter, allowing them extra men behind the ball hurt, allowed them to too much easy rebound
Absolutely loved our effort all day, besides being out classed with their ball movement we had a crack all game
Wet weather conditions hurt us i thought Tigers play the conditions really well
Couldn't be prouder with the way we fought it out to the end, great effort boys

Totally agree. It took our guys a half to adjust to the wet conditions meanwhile the Tigers have played the last 3 out of 4 games in similar conditions.
Im not disappointed,im reasonably happy the fact we didnt give up and we fought it out to the end. Not to mention the Tigers and West Coast are well up there to win the flag.
Blues skies ahead!

 

[Bobmonkey]

If Lang is not to be offered another contract why is he playing round 21?

He’s playing because he actually applies pressure, consistently in the top 1 or 2 forwards for pressure acts.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Ah how simple an analysis.
We made a few mistakes and we lost.

Its a simple game. Thats exactly what happened.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Come on. I tipped 60 pages by midnight...Lift... all of youse

 

[thylacine60]

Ah how simple an analysis.
We made a few mistakes and we lost.

what's it like being the holder of so much knowledge? can you walk among mortals easily?

 

[KnaveyBlue]

You’d have to assume that’s the last we see of Lang. LOB and Fish probably Magoo’d themselves. Dow, Stocker and Kennedy to be the beneficiaries.

Jones, Weitering, and Plow rock solid again.

DeLuca not as bad as some people make out, but there’s no denying he’s a placeholder at most.

Pretty sure Murph ran over the umpires’ dog before the game.

 

[Jabba73]

It’s not that we lost to two top teams, it’s the way we have played the last couple of weeks against those top teams that causes my reservations.

Instead of the fast ball movement and down the corridor ball movement that Teague started off with, we have regressed to very similar football as we played under Bolton.
Remember we lost by 5 goals to Tigers round one and lost by 5 today even though they had their 2 best kids out.

Teague as coach had no plan to counter or nullify the strength of both west coast and tigers today and as a result we honestly never got into any realistic position all game to be able to cause an upset either of those weeks.

In my opinion (and it could just be me), it seems that Teague went into both games with first thought being to limit the damage of possible beltings to not ruin his coaching chances, rather than first priority being a win but risking a belting of it all went wrong. Like I said just my opinion

Thanks for the answer, some of it makes sense.

Teague on a hiding to nothing, probably not even sure if this is an audition or not, makes it hard for him to look too long term with decision making.

 

[JustaBattler]

If the players are going to be ‘fairweather’ players and choose when they want to show up to a match (today is was at half time), why then should it be wrong for any supporter to also be fairweather and choose when to support their team?

Have the players/coach improved over the course of the last 9 weeks or so, YES, but their improvement only brings them back to the expectations we had of them at the start of the year, so no i won’t go out of my way to praise them or congratulate them for doing the basic requirement that they should have been doing all along.

Isn't that the point though? The team IS now currently playing to expectations held at start of the year- we have 6 wins - which is around the bottom of the range IIRC - which was 6-8 as far as I can recall - with some outliers saying we might win 8-10.

All this whilst winning only one game in the first 11 played - albeit losing a couple we should have won - and if we did - it would still be within range of 6-10.

Whilst we don't ever seem to get the best 22 on track - ever - I do believe that Charlie /Cuningham and Docherty in particular would make a significant difference to close results.

Judging by rumours- the Club wants to add a gun mid and a couple of proven playmakers in the trade season - if successful I would expect the side to make finals or get very very close.

 

[Blue and Blue]

If the players are going to be ‘fairweather’ players and choose when they want to show up to a match (today is was at half time), why then should it be wrong for any supporter to also be fairweather and choose when to support their team?

Have the players/coach improved over the course of the last 9 weeks or so, YES, but their improvement only brings them back to the expectations we had of them at the start of the year, so no i won’t go out of my way to praise them or congratulate them for doing the basic requirement that they should have been doing all along.

Footy is about the moment. One moment after another. You praise them when they take a mark, drill a kick, kick a goal and plenty more.
Really really basic stuff.
Your high filuting argument would mean many teams for decades had no praise whatsoever.

 

[carlton2dabone]

You thrive on whinging if your expectations are not met.

Surely you have witnessed more advanced/mature sides struggling of late, Essendon, North to name a couple, yet our losses over the last 2 weeks are not as diabolical as those performances

Told you more than 3 months ago that we were well ahead of Sants and Lions rebuilds, which we are, yet you think somehow we should more advanced, which is nigh on improbable/impossible in an AFL landscape

Until we hit that critical maturity, we will have days like this against top sides and even when we are on the verge or in the 8, unexpected performances/periods like this will still occur, just not as frequent

So make a choice, enjoy the progress over the extended period of our rebuild, or bemoan back to back losses against to flag contenders, as it will mean little, to where we ultimately end up

If someone does more wrong than good then naturally my criticisms of them will outweigh my praise of them, it’s just the law of numbers.

So here’s a thought, when the team has more wins then losses, when the players make more good decisions than bad, when the coach makes more good moves/tactics than bad and when the players have less skill errors than effective disposals then that will be reflected in my comments naturally.

Don’t blame a supporter for being a negative commenter when the players/team are providing more negative things for that poster to comment on than positive things.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

The siren sounded before the mark at the end of the game. Didn’t it? Anyone? This is as big as the Escort Cup in the 70s and it’s not resonating as a huge error in any of the match reports. Should be referred to the bunker in the future.

 

[plentyblckie]

what's it like being the holder of so much knowledge? can you walk among mortals easily?

Well if im wrong why did Teague make the adjustment at half time. So u dont think beibg 5 goals diwn at half time to richmond at the g in those conditions was game over?

 

[thylacine60]

If someone does more wrong than good then naturally my criticisms of them will outweigh my praise of them, it’s just the law of numbers.

So here’s a thought, when the team has more wins then losses, when the players make more good decisions than bad, when the coach makes more good moves/tactics than bad and when the players have less skill errors than effective disposals then that will be reflected in my comments naturally.

Don’t blame a supporter for being a negative commenter when the players/team are providing more negative things for that poster to comment on than positive things.

er, sorry - but I will - always, forever and a day........see you don't support the team - you criticize endlessly - and blame - supporting is just that, giving a s**t about players even when they are struggling - your outlook of "I'll turn up and say positive stuff when they deserve it" is nothing more than cowardly and typically selfish - the team is struggling, you give them nothing - no respect, no understanding, no patience - just heap on the abuse as always - you have zero accountability in that the only time you give a s**t is when we are winning - well it doesn't work that way I'm afraid - in truth I actually think you don't know how to deal with a person struggling but failing.

 

[carlton2dabone]

Footy is about the moment. One moment after another. You praise them when they take a mark, drill a kick, kick a goal and plenty more.
Really really basic stuff.
Your high filuting argument would mean many teams for decades had no praise whatsoever.

And there is your reason for why I come across as a ‘negative poster’, because Currently our negatives outweigh our positives and so naturally my comments will be more skewed to the negative than positive.

When the team starts doing more positive things than negatives things it will mean we win more and naturally my comments will be more positively skewed as a result.

As a supporter I’m basically reflecting the good and bad that the team does, don’t blame supporters like me for being negative when the team is losing more games than winning because they are are doing more negative things than good things.

It’s simple really.

 

[mediumsizered]

Let me start by saying I hate wet weather footy as a spectacle. The game becomes a lottery & I haven't had much success in lotteries. Because of the conditions we played mostly chaos footy in the 1st half & this played right into the Tiggies' hands. Our failure to convert our 1st four shots on goal, all getable, further played to the Tiggies' strength of shotgunning the ball from one end of the ground to the other.

After half time we seemed to get our structures in place & Dimma's demeanour in the coaches' box displayed concern for what this meant for his lot. We were playing the kind of footy which had made us competitive over the previous 8 weeks & it was almost game on after we won the 3rd quarter. We had the ball mostly forward for the 1st five minutes of the last quarter, but didn't capitalise on our territory advantage. Tiggies finally took the ball down the other end, kicked a goal & the wind went out of our sails somewhat. We did manage to pull back a couple of goals to give us a slight sniff, but when the rain came again, it made it easy for the Tiggies to close us down.

I thought Daisy was our best player. His desperation & courage, again & again, went a long way to keeping us in touch when it looked like like they were going to run away from us.

Jones & Weitering had the better of their opponents, while I also thought Plowman was very steady. His 11 intercepts reflecting this. SPS also continued to look good in defence.

I thought our midfield, despite compiling big possession numbers, was relatively ineffective, particularly at centre bounces where they mostly seemed to find themselves on the wrong side of the contests.

McGovern made a promising return & I thought he was our best forward. His kicking for goal was a little bit off & this prevented him from having what should have been a 4 goal game. I was pleased with the way he jumped at the ball & also brought the ball to ground. Unfortunately our smalls couldn't capitalise on this, predominantly because they were constantly under pressure from the Tiggies' defence.

De Luca had what I would consider an almost game. He had at least a couple of opportunities to hit the scoreboard, but didn't take them. He got to some good positions, but wasn't able to take possession of the ball. He did at least apply some good pressure. I would like to see him back himself more. He currently seems to be playing like someone who isn't sure they belong at AFL level.

While playing 2 of the Top 4 teams over this last fortnight we have demonstrated an ability to match them in part, but have not been able to capitalise on enough of our opportunities. We have also handed the ball back too much. Despite the doom-saying by some posters in this thread, it is quite apparent we are not that far off actually beating some of these teams, if we can clean up our ball use & reduce the minutes during which the Opposition control the ball & hit the scoreboard.

Finally, I would like to note what an absolute flog Jack Riewoldt is. He is constantly bending/breaking the rules, but for some reason the umpires seem to overlook this. His constant holding of Jones' arm, his chicken wing tackle, the dragging down of Jones to the ground while at the same time appealing for a free kick just screams floggish behaviour. Combine this with a propensity to use his boot to push players underneath marking contests (didn't see this today, but have seen it on a number of occasions this season, including our Round 1 game) & you have a player who is playing outside both the rules & the spirit of the game, yet is being applauded by some in the process. No doubt we won't hear any comments from his fellow flogs on AFL360 in relation to his chicken wing tackle.

 

[thylacine60]

The siren sounded before the mark at the end of the game. Didn’t it? Anyone? This is as big as the Escort Cup in the 70s and it’s not resonating as a huge error in any of the match reports. Should be referred to the bunker in the future.

google sirengate - something tells me it was a freo saints game played in tassie - might have that wrong............port?

 

[skadoosh]

It’s not that we lost to two top teams, it’s the way we have played the last couple of weeks against those top teams that causes my reservations.

Instead of the fast ball movement and down the corridor ball movement that Teague started off with, we have regressed to very similar football as we played under Bolton.
Remember we lost by 5 goals to Tigers round one and lost by 5 today even though they had their 2 best kids out.

Teague as coach had no plan to counter or nullify the strength of both west coast and tigers today and as a result we honestly never got into any realistic position all game to be able to cause an upset either of those weeks.

In my opinion (and it could just be me), it seems that Teague went into both games with first thought being to limit the damage of possible beltings to not ruin his coaching chances, rather than first priority being a win but risking a belting of it all went wrong. Like I said just my opinion

Did you forget that it was raining today? Surely you don't expect the same sort of style as dry weather footy?

Yeah, iam also sure Teague's mindset is "I have enough wins, let's not try to win."

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Until we hit that critical maturity, we will have days like this against top sides and even when we are on the verge or in the 8, unexpected performances/periods like this will still occur, just not as frequent

Not against this idea but once curnow Murphy Simpson Thomas finish in the next two years will we still have this critical mass of games —- interesting today we had more players over 30 today than the tigers

 

[Smegger]

Few personal favourite highlights from today,

Levi's crunching tackle.
Murphy's banana goal.
McGovern grabbing his jumper....endearing.
Jack's growing confidence.
Simmo's refusal on the goal line and rebound.
SPS' willingness to take the game on.
Setterfield's tackling.

Edit: JONES!

 

[Mr_Plow]

Jacob Weitering is a very good football player. The days of Tom Lynch tormenting this club are over (as long as Jacob is healthy). Now stop ******* complaining to the umpire, Tom, you come across like a petulant child.

Also we are too nice a football team. I saw some good signs with regards to this like Setterfield raising his elbow when being tackled, well done Will. Has a bit of mongrel this kid, wait till he gets stronger.

I want to see more knees and elbows in opponents (not unfairly and in play of course). Mixed in with some nasty tackling to hurt. This is the next step.

 

[skadoosh]

Did i hear that muppet of an umpire say to Thomas, that he couldn't change the decision after he paid a mark after the siren? Um yes you can, ask for a review to check. It can't hurt, or take too long, the game is over.

I re watched the kick and it is clearly marked after the siren, whilst the decision obviously had no bearing on the result, the Tigs gain % and we lose % off the back of it.

But the most important part of it was, if that was a grand final, or any final, or any game for that matter, where the decision changed the result, that umps stubbornness would not only cost a team the game, but could possible lose his job, not to mention an impending court case.

Just double check upstairs, use your brain and get the decision right

What do you reckon the chances are of the AFL saying they got it wrong, tomorrow?

 

[Robbo's my hero]

google sirengate - something tells me it was a freo saints game played in tassie - might have that wrong............port?

Clearly I expect the Richmond’s score to be amended to 10-7-67 and %s adjusted.

Precedent has been set.

“When the final siren sounded, Fremantle were leading by one point but the umpires did not hear the siren and play continued for around 10 seconds, during which time St Kilda scored a point to tie the match. Four days later the AFL Commission determined that the match should have been ended when the first siren sounded. As a result of this St Kilda were stripped of the last behind and the two competition points for a draw that they had received. The victory and the full four points for a win were awarded to Fremantle.

It was only the second time in VFL/AFL history that the score and result of a game was changed on protest, with the first occurring 106 years previously.”

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Although we were never threatening them all day we done a bloody good job of staying within touch and we have become an extremely competitive side.
The veterans were really good today, we just need a few more of the kids to come along for the ride and contribute more.
McKay needs a lot of work still. I’m not sure if he is just lazy or struggles to understand what he should be doing. Pretty much all of it is above the shoulders though.
Jones just brilliant.
Deluca and Gibbons although clearly limited have a crack and players like that is why we are a competitive side now.

Most of all we really need proper small forwards who actually make defenders defend. It would transform our side.

 

[carlton2dabone]

er, sorry - but I will - always, forever and a day........see you don't support the team - you criticize endlessly - and blame - supporting is just that, giving a s**t about players even when they are struggling - your childish outlook of "I'll turn up and say positive stuff when they deserve it" is nothing more than cowardly and typically selfish - the team is struggling, you give them nothing - no respect, no understanding, no patience - just heap on the abuse as always - you have zero accountability in that the only time you give a s**t is when we are winning - well it doesn't work that way I'm afraid - in truth I actually think you don't know how to deal with a person struggling but failing - it is beyond your limited emotional abilities - now back down the cellar you go

Come on thy, I’m a supporter of the Carlton Football Club, that where my loyalty lies, that’s why I’d sooner give up footy completely than ever support a different AFL team.

I couldn’t give a toss about any one person (player, coach or administrator) that isn’t advancing the CFC, so that means when a player coach or administrator does things that help my club succeed then they get my praise and when they don’t help then they mean nothing to me.. they are just another person in a long line of people that go into and out of the club over the 100 year history.

That might sound harsh, but my loyalty to any people at the club only extends to when they are helping it succeed, otherwise they don’t mean anything to me.

They are paid for their work and paid handsomely, so when they do what expected of them I won’t praise them but when they go above and beyond what’s expected of them then they will definitely get my praise.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

The main reason we lost isn't do much us not being up to it....we played against a side that was incredibly well structured. They are the Melbourne Storm of the AFL, and are incredibly well coached.

They apply ridiculous pressure, create turnovers, and swarm forward in numbers.

We were constantly kicking blindly across our shoulders, and rushing our disposals with the perceived pressure....the number of times our players were rushing their kicks under no real pressure is the Richmond way. Even Sammy Walsh was rushing his kicks for the first time I've seen this year.

Take away the bullshizen goal after the final siren, and they beat us by one goal per quarter,....which is a pretty fair effort given we were playing against the premiership favorites.

Having said that, it did show some deficiencies with our side, both in personnel as well as our game strategy....both which we need to improve to consistently take it up to the big guns over the oncoming years.