Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Hawk Dork]

1 goal in a half of footy so far today.. surely cogs is looking forward to this!

Its an improvement on where he is

 

[Slysh]

Litterally clinging on the the best friend theory you blokes lol

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All good mate when you guys miss out on Coniglio I am sure you will be able to find another Mitch McGovern type willing to come.

 

[Deliverance]

Ladder position as of August 11 2019 is the only metric that matters.

FTFY

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Litterally clinging on the the best coach in the game theory you blokes lol

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FTFY

 

[syl97]

and all your credibility goes out the window right there hahaha sometimes I come on here and find some really bad comments but this is up there lol. It's over rated? I'm willing to put a $1000 bet with you that carlton will have more all Australians over the next 5 years than the hawks.

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And this is also where all your credibility goes out the window. Number of all Australians has no relationship to success for Hawthorn. 2013 - 2 AAs, 2014 - 3 AAs and 2015 - 3 AAs. It's a team sport, that's why Carlton can have so many first round draft picks and never succeed.

 

[HairyO]

And this is also where all your credibility goes out the window. Number of all Australians has no relationship to success for Hawthorn. 2013 - 2 AAs, 2014 - 3 AAs and 2015 - 3 AAs. It's a team sport, that's why Carlton can have so many first round draft picks and never succeed.

You are forgetting that mediocre teams focus on individual awards rather than silly things like premierships.

Mind you, GAJ moving to QLD was all about the individual.

So maybe that is what is driving Coniglio.

 

[Pessimistic]

Teflon Terry was discussing the fall of essendon after sheedy which reminded me how long they played lloyd after he was finished and the guy needed a major mrp ban to convince him it wasnt worth it.

Despite having the oldest premiership team ever, no one really hung around too long. Thats one of the differences

 

[Pessimistic]

And this is also where all your credibility goes out the window. Number of all Australians has no relationship to success for Hawthorn. 2013 - 2 AAs, 2014 - 3 AAs and 2015 - 3 AAs. It's a team sport, that's why Carlton can have so many first round draft picks and never succeed.

1991. Zero

 

[HairyO]

1991. Zero

Geelong had about 12 in 2008, didnt they?

 

[Pessimistic]

Geelong had about 12 in 2008, didnt they?

Shh..all part of the plan

 

[Leeda]

Having a gander at the opposition and there is a struggle....to be relevant...

 

[matey]

Shh..all part of the plan

Worpel after 30 games probably better than the start that Hodge, Buddy, Rough or who ever had in the brown and gold. In all the media tonight no mention. That’s good for us.

 

[Pessimistic]

Worpel after 30 games probably better than the start that Hodge, Buddy, Rough or who ever had in the brown and gold. In all the media tonight no mention. That’s good for us.

Tmitch too...and they have sammy as coach

 

[WWSD]

Despite Hawthorn not scoring over 100 points at all this year currently ranked 2nd in defence behind Geelong. If only Hawthorn can recruit a second key defender which would then allow Sicily to be Gibson MKII.

 

[cryptor]

Despite Hawthorn not scoring over 100 points at all this year currently ranked 2nd in defence behind Geelong. If only Hawthorn can recruit a second key defender which would then allow Sicily to be Gibson MKII.

Worth pointing out that Hawthorn have played 11 games against teams currently in the top 8, while Geelong have only had to play 6. In fact, no team currently in the top 8 has played more games against current top 8 sides than Hawthorn.

 

[stfan]

currently ranked 2nd in defence behind Geelong.

If you mean by points kicked against, I think in part that this has resulted from (at least in the games that I have watched) Clarko adopting a more defensive gameplan this year to address the Hawk's shortcoming's and to blunt the more offensive gameplans of many opponents. It is good coaching and has worked a treat against GWS in particular. I would guess that Clarko would prefer to be more attacking if can get the right tools.

 

[QuietB]

Teflon Terry was discussing the fall of essendon after sheedy which reminded me how long they played lloyd after he was finished and the guy needed a major mrp ban to convince him it wasnt worth it.

Despite having the oldest premiership team ever, no one really hung around too long. Thats one of the differences

The fall of Essendon was because their leaders were too selfish to take a pay cut. Think of the players that were pushed out

Hardwick was the first to go in 2001
Blumfield, Caracella and Heffernan were all pushed out in 2002
Jacobs was gone in 2004

The objective when you are good is to keep your players isn't it?

#culture

 

[QuietB]

Geelong had about 12 in 2008, didnt they?

In Geelong's 3 premierships they had 17 All Austrlian's

Hawthorn in their 3 premierships from 2013-2015 had 8

And Hawthorn were more dominant remembering Geelong were most dominant in 07 and 08 (non premiership year).

Geelong had 7 AA's in 2008 to Hawthorns 2 and Geelong had 6 AA's in 2010 to Hawthorns 2.

Geelong were a team of stat padding whores though.

 

[Scotland]

It's like 2015 never happened.

That's the joke, McBain.

 

[Scotland]

In Geelong's 3 premierships they had 17 All Austrlian's

Hawthorn in their 3 premierships from 2013-2015 had 8

And Hawthorn were more dominant remembering Geelong were most dominant in 07 and 08 (non premiership year).

Geelong had 7 AA's in 2008 to Hawthorns 2 and Geelong had 6 AA's in 2010 to Hawthorns 2.

Geelong were a team of stat padding whores though.

Both teams had some excellent players in the era(s).

For some reason Geelong's players received a lot more individual recognition than those from most teams. I don't think anyone can argue about Scarlett and Ablett being in a million AA sides each but Milburn, Egan, Mackie, Corey (2), Mooney (FFS), Harley, Kelly... these guys are good players but the sorts of guys who you normally talk about and say they might sneak an AA selection one year (e.g. for us Beau Waters, had an awesome 2012 and didn't deserve it any other year) but to have all of them make it is weird. They had 15 AA players over 2007-2011 plus Ottens (Rich), King (2000) and Hawkins (2012). That's nuts. A team with that many AA calibre players should win every flag for 5-6 years. Who was the best Geelong player to not win an AA jumper? Max Rooke? Tom Lonergan? No disrespect to those guys but plenty of better players have played for my team and not made it either.

St Kilda finished 20-2 in 2009 and conceded 400 fewer points than Geelong. St Kilda 5 AAs, 0 in defence. Geelong 5 AAs (+ coach), 2 in defence. Essendon 2000 finished 21-1 and had 4 AAs.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Worth pointing out that Hawthorn have played 11 games against teams currently in the top 8, while Geelong have only had to play 6. In fact, no team currently in the top 8 has played more games against current top 8 sides than Hawthorn.

Interesting stat

 

[stfan]

Interesting stat

Yes, though teams like the Saints have played 10 games against teams in the 8 as well.

 

[cryptor]

Interesting stat

There’s quite a few teams outside the top 8 who share similarly high numbers. (North also on 11)

Obviously teams can’t play against themselves so that’s one less possible top 8 side to play for those sides up there. But still a massive discrepancy there for some teams.

But you can only play who you’re fixtured so don’t feel like I’m suggesting the Cats are only up there because of a soft draw. You still need to win those games and Hawthorn have dropped many this year against sides they really shouldn’t have while the Cats have been very reliable.

 

[HairyO]

If you mean by points kicked against, I think in part that this has resulted from (at least in the games that I have watched) Clarko adopting a more defensive gameplan this year to address the Hawk's shortcoming's and to blunt the more offensive gameplans of many opponents. It is good coaching and has worked a treat against GWS in particular. I would guess that Clarko would prefer to be more attacking if can get the right tools.

For sure he wants big scores. But if you look at the B&F results in his time the defenders often rate highly.

At the moment we need a key forward and a goal kicking small forward.

 

[stfan]

For sure he wants big scores. But if you look at the B&F results in his time the defenders often rate highly.

At the moment we need a key forward and a goal kicking small forward.

I think this year that he has mainly wanted low scoring pressure games.