THE BOARD. PAFC DIRECTORS. Why? Just why? 😢

[raptalia]

You could end up with more a corporation than a club however.

The PAFC is already running to a corporate model.

A few dot points of interest re our new director, Andrew Day:

1. He served on the PAFC China Advisory Group prior to its evaporation.

2. He has been at each of the three Shanghai matches.

3. For the 2017 match, perhaps again in 2018 and 2019 (I only attended in 2017) he brought with him contacts of his in three prominent PRC State Owned Enterprises.

4. All expenses paid out of his own pocket.

5. He is a passionate Port man.

Fine, but does he actually know anything about or have any experience in running a Football Club? If you look through the CVs of our nine Directors they are all impressive and a couple would probably have the background to act as Australia's Ambassador to the United Nations but that does not mean they know anything about running a football club. The decision to reappoint Ken Hinkley in 2017 was endorsed by people with pretty impressive CVs.

 

[raptalia]

I have never encountered anyone who has been able to explain the exact process through which someone gets head hunted or nominated to the PAFC Board. They just suddenly appear. I suspect Andrew Day's appointment was a tap on the shoulder by the Chairman, a vetting from the AFL and acceptance. That is not to say Mr Day's appointment is a poor one but you can bet if Koch didn't want him he would not make the Board.

I asked this earlier and did not catch the answer. Andrew Day is listed as a 'Non Executive Director'. What exactly does that mean? Does it mean he advises but does not get a vote?

Here is another question. Do the Directors of the Port Adelaide Football Club get a Director's Fee or expenses? I would not imagine that we could attract well credentialled corporates or ex pollies if it cost them money.

 

[Rexie J]

I have never encountered anyone who has been able to explain the exact process through which someone gets head hunted or nominated to the PAFC Board. They just suddenly appear. I suspect Andrew Day's appointment was a tap on the shoulder by the Chairman, a vetting from the AFL and acceptance. That is not to say Mr Day's appointment is a poor one but you can bet if Koch didn't want him he would not make the Board.

I asked this earlier and did not catch the answer. Andrew Day is listed as a 'Non Executive Director'. What exactly does that mean? Does it mean he advises but does not get a vote?

Here is another question. Do the Directors of the Port Adelaide Football Club get a Director's Fee or expenses? I would not imagine that we could attract well credentialled corporates or ex pollies if it cost them money.

He certainly has a vote and REH gave a detailed response.

Suggest you Google 'Non executive Director' as that will explain in detail what that term means as it's a common and formal terminology.

As for your query re 'do they know how to run a football club', that is a question which could be asked of any of the Directors of the PAFC over the years In the early 70's I was asked to do some low key campaigning for a business friend who finally won at his second attempt. He was the state manager for Beirsdorf Australia, so the question could be asked, what did he know about running a football club.He was by the way, a superb individual with great people skills.

 

[bomberclifford]

I've never met Holly Ransom, but do know people who have utilised her services.
The common feedback is that her business is about one thing only: the elevation of her own personal brand.

As others have noted, her rise through the business community ranks has been part 'who-you-know-not-what-you-know' and part 'right-place-right-time-right-type'. She uses key words in her dialogue and marketing material like 'millennial' 'disruption' 'future' 'leadership' like she's only just read a book about SEO and how to game the system. Those tactics went out the door ten years ago.

She's obviously a very intelligent person and has charisma and self-belief through the wazoo, but that doesn't mean she offers anything of value to the club.

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

...it reads as the type of tripe that comes out of people like Tony Robbins and other self-proclaimed leadership consultants. It's vapour consulting; say nothing that can be disputed, with as many words as possible, referencing pop-science terms as much as you can. As Portia once said: verbosity in lieu of substance.

Now you tell me, has our club exhibited any of the traits that she is espousing?

Are we being 'propelled by our own momentum'?

Have we "uniquely synchronized existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption"?

Do we even need to?
Does anybody even know what this means?


I'd even go so far as to say that our engagement with the 'millennial' demographic is actually worse than it was when she got here. On top of that, we've also pissed off a good portion of our older (traditional) supporters with disruptive strategies like 'co-captains FTW' and 'post your favourite memes Power fans'.


If our 'future' is now, why are we here?

 

[Lockhart Road]

I have never encountered anyone who has been able to explain the exact process through which someone gets head hunted or nominated to the PAFC Board. They just suddenly appear. I suspect Andrew Day's appointment was a tap on the shoulder by the Chairman, a vetting from the AFL and acceptance. That is not to say Mr Day's appointment is a poor one but you can bet if Koch didn't want him he would not make the Board.

I asked this earlier and did not catch the answer. Andrew Day is listed as a 'Non Executive Director'. What exactly does that mean? Does it mean he advises but does not get a vote?

Here is another question. Do the Directors of the Port Adelaide Football Club get a Director's Fee or expenses? I would not imagine that we could attract well credentialled corporates or ex pollies if it cost them money.

You suspect Andrew Day’s appointment was a tap on the shoulder by the chairman?

Andrew Day’s appointment was the result of three years of lobbying thru different channels by myself and by my China colleague, who first met Mr Day at the BTB in August 2014 for the first PAFC sponsored Team China competing in IC14.

Mr Day was introduced by us to the CEO at a breakfast meeting in the Melbourne CBD in late February 2015.

Since then we have all been working on securing funding for the Club in the form of a large partnership with a very large PRC SOE with whom Andrew Day had corporate connections at the time.

The full story is contained in the thread: AUTOPSY: ‘UP THE CHINA RABBIT-HOLE - The TV Docudrama Series.’

Andrew Day goes by the alias ‘Daryl Ander’.

Try a bit of reading, teach yourself, instead of just firing off indignant-sounding questions.

No Mr Day has no experience in running a football club ... not even successfully.

Neither has David Koch.

 

[Rexie J]

I've never met Holly Ransom, but do know people who have utilised her services.
The common feedback is that her business is about one thing only: the elevation of her own personal brand.

As others have noted, her rise through the business community ranks has been part 'who-you-know-not-what-you-know' and part 'right-place-right-time-right-type'. She uses key words in her dialogue and marketing material like 'millennial' 'disruption' 'future' 'leadership' like she's only just read a book about SEO and how to game the system. Those tactics went out the door ten years ago.

She's obviously a very intelligent person and has charisma and self-belief through the wazoo, but that doesn't mean she offers anything of value to the club.

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

...it reads as the type of tripe that comes out of people like Tony Robbins and other self-proclaimed leadership consultants. It's vapour consulting; say nothing that can be disputed, with as many words as possible, referencing pop-science terms as much as you can. As Portia once said: verbosity in lieu of substance.

Now you tell me, has our club exhibited any of the traits that she is espousing?

Are we being 'propelled by our own momentum'?

Have we "uniquely synchronized existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption"?

Do we even need to?
Does anybody even know what this means?


I'd even go so far as to say that our engagement with the 'millennial' demographic is actually worse than it was when she got here. On top of that, we've also pi**ed off a good portion of our older (traditional) supporters with disruptive strategies like 'co-captains FTW' and 'post your favourite memes Power fans'.


If our 'future' is now, why are we here?

Good post, at least the bits in regular English I understood?!.

Unfortunately, members do not have access to the Minutes of Board meetings and therefore have no first hand understanding how individuals perform within the formal structure of meetings. A real pity.

 

[manureid]

I rememeber when Holly made the time to post on Bigfooty a few weeks ago and told us Hinley was great and staying on next year. Fun times.

 

[Grave Danger]

I've never met Holly Ransom, but do know people who have utilised her services.
The common feedback is that her business is about one thing only: the elevation of her own personal brand.

As others have noted, her rise through the business community ranks has been part 'who-you-know-not-what-you-know' and part 'right-place-right-time-right-type'. She uses key words in her dialogue and marketing material like 'millennial' 'disruption' 'future' 'leadership' like she's only just read a book about SEO and how to game the system. Those tactics went out the door ten years ago.

She's obviously a very intelligent person and has charisma and self-belief through the wazoo, but that doesn't mean she offers anything of value to the club.

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

...it reads as the type of tripe that comes out of people like Tony Robbins and other self-proclaimed leadership consultants. It's vapour consulting; say nothing that can be disputed, with as many words as possible, referencing pop-science terms as much as you can. As Portia once said: verbosity in lieu of substance.

Now you tell me, has our club exhibited any of the traits that she is espousing?

Are we being 'propelled by our own momentum'?

Have we "uniquely synchronized existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption"?

Do we even need to?
Does anybody even know what this means?


I'd even go so far as to say that our engagement with the 'millennial' demographic is actually worse than it was when she got here. On top of that, we've also pi**ed off a good portion of our older (traditional) supporters with disruptive strategies like 'co-captains FTW' and 'post your favourite memes Power fans'.


If our 'future' is now, why are we here?

We need Donald Trump as our president - he's the best disruptor there is.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

bomberclifford Reading that, Ransom’s emergent theory is literally what synergy was in the 90s - a vague rewording of ‘better than the sum of its parts’.

Monorail flim flam

 

[Harlott]

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

I can't resist. What a load of horse****.

 

[Relativity]

I've never met Holly Ransom, but do know people who have utilised her services.
The common feedback is that her business is about one thing only: the elevation of her own personal brand.

As others have noted, her rise through the business community ranks has been part 'who-you-know-not-what-you-know' and part 'right-place-right-time-right-type'. She uses key words in her dialogue and marketing material like 'millennial' 'disruption' 'future' 'leadership' like she's only just read a book about SEO and how to game the system. Those tactics went out the door ten years ago.

She's obviously a very intelligent person and has charisma and self-belief through the wazoo, but that doesn't mean she offers anything of value to the club.

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

...it reads as the type of tripe that comes out of people like Tony Robbins and other self-proclaimed leadership consultants. It's vapour consulting; say nothing that can be disputed, with as many words as possible, referencing pop-science terms as much as you can. As Portia once said: verbosity in lieu of substance.

Now you tell me, has our club exhibited any of the traits that she is espousing?

Are we being 'propelled by our own momentum'?

Have we "uniquely synchronized existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption"?

Do we even need to?
Does anybody even know what this means?


I'd even go so far as to say that our engagement with the 'millennial' demographic is actually worse than it was when she got here. On top of that, we've also pi**ed off a good portion of our older (traditional) supporters with disruptive strategies like 'co-captains FTW' and 'post your favourite memes Power fans'.


If our 'future' is now, why are we here?

I have an instant distrust for people who use "word salads" to impress. As I grow more cynical with age I judge by what I see over what I hear.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I've never met Holly Ransom, but do know people who have utilised her services.
The common feedback is that her business is about one thing only: the elevation of her own personal brand.

As others have noted, her rise through the business community ranks has been part 'who-you-know-not-what-you-know' and part 'right-place-right-time-right-type'. She uses key words in her dialogue and marketing material like 'millennial' 'disruption' 'future' 'leadership' like she's only just read a book about SEO and how to game the system. Those tactics went out the door ten years ago.

She's obviously a very intelligent person and has charisma and self-belief through the wazoo, but that doesn't mean she offers anything of value to the club.

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

...it reads as the type of tripe that comes out of people like Tony Robbins and other self-proclaimed leadership consultants. It's vapour consulting; say nothing that can be disputed, with as many words as possible, referencing pop-science terms as much as you can. As Portia once said: verbosity in lieu of substance.

Now you tell me, has our club exhibited any of the traits that she is espousing?

Are we being 'propelled by our own momentum'?

Have we "uniquely synchronized existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption"?

Do we even need to?
Does anybody even know what this means?


I'd even go so far as to say that our engagement with the 'millennial' demographic is actually worse than it was when she got here. On top of that, we've also pi**ed off a good portion of our older (traditional) supporters with disruptive strategies like 'co-captains FTW' and 'post your favourite memes Power fans'.


If our 'future' is now, why are we here?

She has done a lot of volunteering and therefore has been on "boards" or committees of about 15 NGO's and not for profit type organizations, as well as been on commercial boards or committees of 9 organisations (2 she has finished working for) since that G20 Youth Summit in November 2014, as well as CEO of her own business.

She got a good start when 19 volunteering and chaired Young UN Women's Australia Perth Committee in 2009 for 2 years and then the G20 Youth Summit gig in 2013-14. That's when I first saw her on TV. She is very bright and accomplished, but there was a lot of that government and corporate cliche speak - sort of Kevin Rudd verbosity style.

She also has a touch of the academic about her, who is trying to branch out into the real world, but given the high end positions she has had, she doesn't do that grunt work most professionals have to do for a decade or so to build a deep understanding of the profession they are in and learn the specifics. Her positions say she is good at looking at overarching picture, not doing the grunt work. She has become a professional director before her 30th birthday.

She likes to push herself. Runs marathons and does triathlons. At least we know she likes sports.

I suspect the club hasn't used her correctly. I reckon if we had a female football team she would have come into her own and probably would have been a very good front person for them. The AFL stuck her on an AFLW advisory committee when they decided to start the AFLW comp. From her last volunteering experience listed, although others listed she still is on going with them.
Volunteer Experience

Inaugural Advisory Board Member
Company NameAFL National Women's League
Dates volunteeredSep 2016 – Dec 2018
Volunteer duration2 yrs 4 mos
The Advisory Group seeks to advise the AFL executive and commission regarding the development of the AFL National Women's League. The AFLW is the official AFL competition for women, launched in 2017.

In December 2014 she went onto the board of The Layne Beachley Aim for the Stars Foundation

I reckon that is where she met Koch. Koch is mate's with Beachley's husband INXS' Kirk Pengilly, as they went to high school together after Koch's moved to Sydney when he was 14, due to the old man getting a work transfer. Pretty sure he would have done stuff for Layne's Foundation over the years as well as just attend her functions.

Yeah Holly gets bagged unnecessarily. I have no doubt that being on the Port board is another notch on her belt, rather than being super passionate about the club, but nobody on here really knows what she does for the club. Unless you are in the meetings, who would know.

I have met her briefly a couple times, once at a game day function and once at an AGM, think February 2017, or maybe the next year. I was tempted to get into a deeper conversation with her, but backed off.

The technology development / infrastructure projects / capital investment fund I have been working on, the current version for almost a decade, and other versions over 16 years, but the funding hasn't been delivered yet, will be doing work with the UN/IMF/World Bank, governments in Oz, Asia and the Pacific before spreading out over the rest of the world and she would be an interesting person to talk to and see how extensive and who is in her network. Might be extensive enough and deep enough to invite her on to one or two of our boards. Also her network of women leaders is of interest to us.

But given the complexities and some of the confidentialities involved, its not worth starting a conversation with her about it yet. If we get the funding soon and she still is on the board after September and she doesn't go to the US full time on her Fulbright scholarship to study, then I probably will try and met with her.

 

[Forzaport]

Explains complex concepts in simple terms = leader

Explains simple concepts in complex terms = charlatan

Uses buzzwords that don’t really explain anything = charlatan

We need board members that not only understand the PAFC but also act and vote in the best interests of the club.

 

[Steve Dore]

I find it interesting how some people question Amanda Vanstone's contribution to the board yet praise Holly Ransom's contribution.

Amanda is a lawyer, former small business owner, former Federal politician and Government Minister and former Australian ambassador so how can she possibly be contributing as much as an interwebz influencer and professional disruptor whose main goal appears to be building their own brand?

 

[edgie]

Now you tell me, has our club exhibited any of the traits that she is espousing?

We are definitely not more than the sum of our parts. In fact, one could argue we've never been lesser than the sum of our parts.

 

[raptalia]

You suspect Andrew Day’s appointment was a tap on the shoulder by the chairman?

Andrew Day’s appointment was the result of three years of lobbying thru different channels by myself and by my China colleague, who first met Mr Day at the BTB in August 2014 for the first PAFC sponsored Team China competing in IC14.

Mr Day was introduced by us to the CEO at a breakfast meeting in the Melbourne CBD in late February 2015.

Since then we have all been working on securing funding for the Club in the form of a large partnership with a very large PRC SOE with whom Andrew Day had corporate connections at the time.

The full story is contained in the thread: AUTOPSY: ‘UP THE CHINA RABBIT-HOLE - The TV Docudrama Series.’

Andrew Day goes by the alias ‘Daryl Ander’.

Try a bit of reading, teach yourself, instead of just firing off indignant-sounding questions.

No Mr Day has no experience in running a football club ... not even successfully.

Neither has David Koch.

Calm down and spare us all the chest beating hysterics. I have made the point to you before if you have a bad day do not take it out on people who have genuine questions to ask. You obviously have inside information which the rest of us do not have. You obviously have plenty of knowledge but you do not handle genuine inquiries well. If you know so much tell me what role this 'Non Executive Director' you had so much to do with appointing will play on the Board.

It may have escaped your notice but a lot of supporters have had enough of China for the moment. We are consistently told the the China initiative will rescue the Club yet three years in we are still on the AFL's financial watch list.

At no stage have I attacked Mr Day's appointment, I have asked how he got there and what his role will be? If you don't have the answers do not bother responding.

PS Why should I, or anyone else, trust someone who goes by an alias?

 

[Steve Dore]

... Why should I, or anyone else, trust someone who goes by an alias?

To be fair Lockhart Road's real identity is hardly a secret.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I've never met Holly Ransom, but do know people who have utilised her services.
The common feedback is that her business is about one thing only: the elevation of her own personal brand.

As others have noted, her rise through the business community ranks has been part 'who-you-know-not-what-you-know' and part 'right-place-right-time-right-type'. She uses key words in her dialogue and marketing material like 'millennial' 'disruption' 'future' 'leadership' like she's only just read a book about SEO and how to game the system. Those tactics went out the door ten years ago.

She's obviously a very intelligent person and has charisma and self-belief through the wazoo, but that doesn't mean she offers anything of value to the club.

On her website, she describes herself as a "leading disruption strategist" and offers insights like...

"Emergent theory refers to value creation above and beyond the sum total of the parts, when the friction and fusion of ideas, behaviors and systems become propelled by their own momentum. Emergent practice challenges leaders and organizations to rethink their core competitive advantage for the future, uniquely synchronizing existing material, cognitive and technology-based assets to activate the strategy, governance frameworks and team buy-in to lead impending disruption. Holly believes the moment to discuss and debate the ‘future of work’ is gone. Instead, Emergent works with organizations who understand the ‘future’ is now."

I'd even go so far as to say that our engagement with the 'millennial' demographic is actually worse than it was when she got here. On top of that, we've also pi**ed off a good portion of our older (traditional) supporters with disruptive strategies like 'co-captains FTW' and 'post your favourite memes Power fans'.

What the * did I just read?

 

[Relativity]

To be fair Lockhart Road's real identity is hardly a secret.

I think he is refering to "Daryl Ander"

 

[Tibbs]

Calm down and spare us all the chest beating hysterics. I have made the point to you before if you have a bad day do not take it out on people who have genuine questions to ask. You obviously have inside information which the rest of us do not have. You obviously have plenty of knowledge but you do not handle genuine inquiries well. If you know so much tell me what role this 'Non Executive Director' you had so much to do with appointing will play on the Board.

It may have escaped your notice but a lot of supporters have had enough of China for the moment. We are consistently told the the China initiative will rescue the Club yet three years in we are still on the AFL's financial watch list.

At no stage have I attacked Mr Day's appointment, I have asked how he got there and what his role will be? If you don't have the answers do not bother responding.

PS Why should I, or anyone else, trust someone who goes by an alias?

Raptalia ... Your post was not an "inquiry" as you put it ...
"I suspect Andrew Day's appointment was a tap on the shoulder by the Chairman, a vetting from the AFL and acceptance. That is not to say Mr Day's appointment is a poor one but you can bet if Koch didn't want him he would not make the Board."

Basically you were expressing an uninformed opinion, cerainly no "genuine inquiry" as I see it.

That is not to say you might not be correct! But it was an opinion. If you had read some earlier posts LR has already enlightened us as to the background & value of Day's appointment.

Just saying ...

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Lockhart Road]

Calm down and spare us all the chest beating hysterics. I have made the point to you before if you have a bad day do not take it out on people who have genuine questions to ask. You obviously have inside information which the rest of us do not have. You obviously have plenty of knowledge but you do not handle genuine inquiries well. If you know so much tell me what role this 'Non Executive Director' you had so much to do with appointing will play on the Board.

It may have escaped your notice but a lot of supporters have had enough of China for the moment. We are consistently told the the China initiative will rescue the Club yet three years in we are still on the AFL's financial watch list.

At no stage have I attacked Mr Day's appointment, I have asked how he got there and what his role will be? If you don't have the answers do not bother responding.

PS Why should I, or anyone else, trust someone who goes by an alias?

I have but two words to say to you big mouth alias raptalia ... first starts with F. The second starts with O.

You too are now on ignore.

 

[Portology]

C’mon guys.

We need to be better than a board meeting on here.


On iPhone using recycled electrons, via BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Capital Power]

There was a post above that mentioned that members do not have access to Board minutes. Can I ask why not?

 

[Lockhart Road]

C’mon guys.

We need to be better than a board meeting on here.


On iPhone using recycled electrons, via BigFooty.com mobile app

Who do you mean by ‘we’ KT?