List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

[caesar88]

I really take exception to this. You ALWAYS look after your 'people' because others are watching.
We don't know what else they are contributing off field. You don't just spit them out when they are done & we also don't know what actual clauses there may be in their contracts where they need to play a certain amount of games in their final years to trigger extensions etc.
We just don't know but we do know they have been ornaments of the club & those next in line need to see that we will look after them too should they choose to stick it out with our club until the end.

I think it does seem harsh but it’s also fair. And if you’re smart about it in the first place, you don’t then have to be harsh later on.

ie. Had we not signed on Jack long-term when we did, when there was always a chance he was gonna age - it does happen!, then maybe he wouldn’t have been tied to the club still and a more natural conversation between player and club could’ve been had. Blokes who are 28-30 shouldn’t be getting re-signed for more than one year at a time. Instead we kept him on to the point he’s become a liability, and we’re having to all but kick him out the door, so no one’s really won here.

 

[The King!]

All good clubs do it.
Henderson at Geelong a waste of money but came from Carlton on big money at the time.
You want a perfect cold hard world.
Won't ever happen at a good club.

No I just want the club to be a bit more wary going forward about longer deals for older players- be a bit more ruthless

not saying they were stupid calls- some were odd, mostly bad luck with a few

Just if a guy is 29 or older be careful thats all im suggesting

 

[Tedeski]

Jack smith grundy mcveigh

One club players that took less with us throughout their careers than they could have taken elsewhere if they did a Mitchell.

 

[The King!]

Bulls**t. He played for frees for a short period about 2 years before he was howled out of football.

He wasn't at his absolute elite best once he retired (and who knows how much of that mental) but he was still a bloody good player.

Look hes the greatest players ive ever seen, and the way he was treated was a ******* joke so who knows what toll it took, and Im not going to be captain hindsight because i would have kept him on the list as well.

But he wasnt the same player anymore thats all, was still good correct, i should have worded that better.

 

[The King!]

One club players that took less with us throughout their careers than they could have taken elsewhere if they did a Mitchell.

'

Oh yeah what did they get paid?

 

[caesar88]

Oh FFS! You were trading him a couple of weeks ago! Spare us the "I'm only thinking of JPK" narrative.

I am thinking of the club and JPK believe it or not. No one wins from him staying around as a shadow of his former self.

 

[The King!]

One club players that took less with us throughout their careers than they could have taken elsewhere if they did a Mitchell.

Yep and I love them all by the way

Dont get me wrong im not saying hey go chop buddy and kennedy tomorrow or treat players like s**t

Just maybe 1 year at a time rather than 3 year contracts etc, just a bit more care

 

[Tedeski]

No I just want the club to be a bit more wary going forward about longer deals for older players- be a bit more ruthless

not saying they were stupid calls- some were odd, mostly bad luck with a few

Just if a guy is 29 or older be careful thats all im suggesting

I totally understand where you are coming from but our club of recent times has been built on something more than those old cold hard days & this is important for those coming through now. We can't send them the message that we will be a "be a bit more ruthless" when they get to their final years of good service. I would definitely chase more dollars elsewhere once I hit 26 or 27 YO if that was the case.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Players are paid well for what they give clubs

Im not saying cut everyone at the drop of the hat, but we have shot ourselves in the foot keeping guys 1-3 years too long

then they end up injured or in the neafl- and in turn we cant sign other players or bring players in

Yes you dont know who is watching, exactly, what prime player wants to go to a club thats old and no hope of winning.


Too much heart not enough head imo

You can take exception

But Jack smith grundy mcveigh and your mate buddy- how much in their bank to give us collectively nothing

Really disagree with this Mr The King. Macca and Reg earned their one year extensions. Smithy only started to go off the boil last year and of course copped a career ending injury - he was not gifted one game at the end of his career.

Where we stuffed up was with the Hanners contract (tho only if you accept the view the Club did not cook him), the nightmare Tippett recruitment (a moneyball player) and the recontracting of KJ and Grohan.

 

[The King!]

I totally understand where you are coming from but our club of recent times has been built on something more than those old cold hard days & this is important for those coming through now. We can't send them the message that we will be a "be a bit more ruthless" when they get to their final years of good service. I would definitely chase more dollars elsewhere once I hit 26 or 27 YO if that was the case.

Theres certainly that consideration I can see your point, come to Sydney we look after you.

Will be interesting as free agency evolves, will we see more player empowerment and movement?

 

[caesar88]

Methinks Jack will be the last to call time, ahead of next week’s game.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I am thinking of the club and JPK believe it or not. No one wins from him staying around as a shadow of his former self.

In a year where we haven't had an effective ruckman he's still averaging 26 possessions and 5 clearances.

All of our midfield look more tired and slow than previous years. That's a direct consequence of our ruck woes.

 

[caesar88]

In a year where we haven't had an effective ruckman he's still averaging 26 possessions and 5 clearances.

All of our midfield look more tired and slow than previous years. That's a direct consequence of our ruck woes.

Riiiiight....

Kennedy looks a shadow of his former self even just in general play. Lacking that sharpness and awareness and can’t break tackles like he used to. I mean I know you think of it as some controversial perspective but it’s straight-forward and staring us in the face: which way does the ageing process happen? Backwards or forwards?

 

[Tedeski]

Theres certainly that consideration I can see your point, come to Sydney we look after you.

Will be interesting as free agency evolves, will we see more player empowerment and movement?

Unfortunately we are in a more delicate situation than a Vic club. Collingwood for example are notoriously poor with their players because they have 5 more GWS, GC or Bris players wanting to play for them for every one player they ruthlessly dispose.
It comes down to a weight of numbers. Look after your p'ship legends, be a little tougher on others that haven't pulled their weight.

 

[The King!]

Riiiiight....

Kennedy looks a shadow of his former self even just in general play. Lacking that sharpness and awareness and can’t break tackles like he used to. I mean I know you think of it as some controversial perspective but it’s straight-forward and staring us in the face: which way does the ageing process happen? Backwards or forwards?

With Kennedy he is contracted for next year
I think the main thing would be never giving him more than a year at a time going forward

 

[The King!]

Unfortunately we are in a more delicate situation than a Vic club. Collingwood for example are notoriously poor with their players because they have 5 more GWS, GC or Bris players wanting to play for them for every one player they ruthlessly dispose.
It comes down to a weight of numbers. Look after your p'ship legends, be a little tougher on others that haven't pulled their weight.

I can certainly see that, I think we are evolving into a big club on and off the field over time, it will come

Look its nice to have older premiership players to worry about

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Riiiiight....

Kennedy looks a shadow of his former self even just in general play. Lacking that sharpness and awareness and can’t break tackles like he used to. I mean I know you think of it as some controversial perspective but it’s straight-forward and staring us in the face: which way does the ageing process happen? Backwards or forwards?

The numbers don't lie. He's as effective now as he's always been. In a period where we haven't had an effective ruck.

 

[The King!]

Methinks Jack will be the last to call time, ahead of next week’s game.

Agree
Because i think he is the one who will get on the park for the game guaranteed

 

[caesar88]

The numbers don't lie. He's as effective now as he's always been. In a period where we haven't had an effective ruck.

You lost me at numbers

 

[caesar88]

With Kennedy he is contracted for next year
I think the main thing would be never giving him more than a year at a time going forward

I’m glad he’ll be around next year, as he is still contributing to the team. But if his form gets any worse, and he starts looking like an artefact, I hope his reputation doesn’t get in the way of the tough calls next year.

 

[The King!]

I’m glad he’ll be around next year, as he is still contributing to the team. But if his form gets any worse, and he starts looking like an artefact, I hope his reputation doesn’t get in the way of the tough calls next year.

Kennedys not a top 10 player in the comp anymore IMO

but he is still arguably our best midfielder, looks to have lost a step to me and is handballing more i think

if he keeps this output he is fine without question

Its just a waryness based on the batterring affect on other mids like jack hanners okeefe etc and how sharply they fell that makes me wary

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

In a year where we haven't had an effective ruckman he's still averaging 26 possessions and 5 clearances.

Yes Bruce. I accept the numbers but we all know the numbers are down as his effectiveness. Equally I accept my eyes that tell me he now struggles to be competitive at clearances where he was once the peerless Caliph of Clearances.

JPK has always been a pretty impassive player, but it is a long time since I have seen him laugh with the joy of the game.

Is he carrying a debilitating injury? Is he cooked? I do not know. I hope his career has another couple of years. A different sort of pre-season and a different balance to his role (esp less time in CS contests where he is now exposed) might bring value and joy to player, team and our fans.

 

[caesar88]

Kennedys not a top 10 player in the comp anymore IMO

but he is still arguably our best midfielder, looks to have lost a step to me and is handballing more i think

if he keeps this output he is fine without question

Its just a waryness based on the batterring affect on other mids like jack hanners okeefe etc and how sharply they fell that makes me wary

Yeah exactly, science basically dictates that he won’t be able to keep up his current ouput. Which is no shame at all on JPK.

I would just be reducing his role. Less midfield minutes has two benefits: fast-track the rebuild of our midfield, and might help keep Kennedy fresher for longer. Similar to Selwood who started this year on fire playing less in the guts, looked rejuvenated.

 

[Olian]

I think it does seem harsh but it’s also fair. And if you’re smart about it in the first place, you don’t then have to be harsh later on.

ie. Had we not signed on Jack long-term when we did, when there was always a chance he was gonna age - it does happen!, then maybe he wouldn’t have been tied to the club still and a more natural conversation between player and club could’ve been had. Blokes who are 28-30 shouldn’t be getting re-signed for more than one year at a time. Instead we kept him on to the point he’s become a liability, and we’re having to all but kick him out the door, so no one’s really won here.

Nick Smith turned 30 in June last year. 8 seasons in a row he’d played 20+ games. Would you have signed him on again this year under your 30 years of age criteria?

 

[brad cooper]

How have we been better at dealing with ends of careers that most?

Richards Shaw even Goodes
Smith Grundy jack Tippett
Okeefe

I could keep going

Isn't this the same at most clubs though? I mean look at Roughead, contributed zero this year to hawks, scott selwood at geelong etc if you look at every side I'm pretty sure you'll find some players who are past it, yet at the time of contract offer/ extension they were still playing good football.

If these great players you mentioned were just cast aside or left for a better offer our depth would resemble gold coasts, a bunch of kids.