2019 2nd Ashes Test - Lords 14-18 August 2019

Thought both captains were really poor yesterday.

Root had a chance to grab the series by the balls and botched it by not giving himself enough time and Paine’s fields for Lyon were bog average, he played a horrid shot and continues to have no method to score and he also missed a trick by not really hustling through overs in the morning session. He could have really put Root on the back shoe if they looked up and there was 6-7 less overs left than they thought there was.

Marnus was excellent, technically sound and patient.
 
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False equivocation. Matthew Hayden is no longer player test cricket, and has been retired for years. Warner is a current player who has 21 test centuries. For it to be apples and apples, Hayden would have to still be playing first class cricket and be selectable.
David Warner hadn't played any Test or First Class cricket in over 12 months before this series. And he's proving why he should have been forced to show form before being selected again. Especially with his overseas record and poor form in South Africa prior to his suspension.

Smith being selected was warranted - he's the second best batsman of all time. Warner is nowhere near it and is showing why he shouldn't have come straight back in with no FC form.
 

Jiggyman

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Lot's of injuries are pre-existing issues that flare up during a match. Anderson's calf is an example of that. I doubt any team would be risking a player who is suffering from concussion.
Clearly, my point was more that I can see where people might be coming from when they don't believe a sub is needed in test cricket.
 

DAlembert

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I played for over 20 years and I only ever saw two players get hit in the head whilst unprotected. One was in the very early 80s when helmets weren't worn that much, an old school teacher of mine got hit in the temple fielding at short leg and almost died. When he eventually returned to school it was as if he'd had a stroke with a lot of one side of his body paralysed. The 2nd was in the 90s when a team mate who was an opening bat and religiously wore a helmet whether it was pace or spin bowling took his helmet off to face a spinner because it was stinking hot and he had been batting for a couple of hours already. The second ball he faced without his helmet on, he tried to sweep and top edged it straight into his mouth and shredded his lips and broke a couple of teeth. He never batted without one again.

I played first grade in Geelong for years and never saw anyone get hit in the head while they were batting that wasn't wearing a helmet, in fact I can barely recall seeing anyone get hit in the head at all, despite having numerous bowlers over the years that were capable and did bowl 90+ mph.
I top edged a Colin Costorphin bouncer out at Leopold one day. Big egg just above left eye..haha No helmet and batted on. He bowled me a nice half volley next ball that I cover drove for 4. Do not remember receiving a lot of sympathy ...more like come on get on with it. lol. Most people in Geelong would remember Andrew Scott another of those quick skiddy types. He hit a young bloke at Werribee who had the tag of the next best thing. Never heard of him again. Think he might have actually had a helmet on lucky for him. The Werribee wicket was nothing special.
 

DAlembert

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Yup I found it weird some of the commentary around the game was how england have swung the momentum.
That test absolutely fell the Aussies way, without Smith and backs to the wall we held out for a draw.
The poms desperately needed a win.
I think it might have been a draw because we were allowed a sub to bat. Any other era. Australia fold all out for 100 Lose Test end of story. This series could go either way our batting is about as woeful as can be. We don't have an opener..No3 is sketchy. Head ok but no big score in sight. This is a poor Australian side by any measure. Smith and Sub have saved Australia from 2 defeats.
 

to1994

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Warner is in poor form but I can't help but think the majority who want him out have a different agenda (consider him the bad guy because of sand paper and don't want him in the team at all).

There is no way he gets dropped before Bancroft, he averages 47 in Test cricket as an opener. You can bang on about a poor record in England but it's not true, his record in England was actually pretty solid before this series.

The top 3 probably needs a shake up but with Smith likely out it's not happening until the fourth Test and even then the only chance of a change is Bancroft out. Warner is playing all 5 Tests.
 

Lynnsanity

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Has there ever been an attractive spin bowler?

38c557099cc08c1af515d648e3eab291.jpg
 

thejockey

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England too defensive to start day 5 (especially with the overs lost) and conservative with the declaration. Cost them a realistic chance of winning.
That’s how they play and always have . It’s all about not losing first then win if possible in the scenario in this test .

Even though our batting is wobbly I was confident of a draw because they were always going to bat an hour too long .
 

to1994

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England too defensive to start day 5 (especially with the overs lost) and conservative with the declaration. Cost them a realistic chance of winning.

That's fine to say in hindsight but I don't think it's a fair assessment of how things were at the time. First thing in the morning they were in real danger of losing, it made sense to assess the conditions and see off the first couple of spells from our bowlers.

Had they lost Stokes and Buttler in the first half an hour they 100% would've lost the game. Obviously runs started to come easy later but they raced from about 180 to 250 odd in a short space of time. If they'd declared earlier it would've been at best about 10 overs earlier and they would've been a real risk of us reaching the target.

The fact is England outplayed us the last two days. We can bang on about Archer or England being cheats with that Lab catch but we need to do better. Our top 3 has been pathetic and they should be under twice as much pressure with Smith likely out next Test.
 

DAlembert

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How that half volley that Root scooped up was given out is any ones guess. Modern Technology has to be better than that. I do understand having played a bit of cricket that Root might believe he snaffled it. So I am not calling him any names.
 
How that half volley that Root scooped up was given out is any ones guess. Modern Technology has to be better than that. I do understand having played a bit of cricket that Root might believe he snaffled it. So I am not calling him any names.
Unless you have 3D cameras and coverage those catches that are half volleys really close to the fingers will never be accurately adjudicated on. 2 dimensions will always be distorted compared to 3.
 

thejockey

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Warner is in poor form but I can't help but think the majority who want him out have a different agenda (consider him the bad guy because of sand paper and don't want him in the team at all).

There is no way he gets dropped before Bancroft, he averages 47 in Test cricket as an opener. You can bang on about a poor record in England but it's not true, his record in England was actually pretty solid before this series.

The top 3 probably needs a shake up but with Smith likely out it's not happening until the fourth Test and even then the only chance of a change is Bancroft out. Warner is playing all 5 Tests.
I only disagree that I would give him one more test ( result depending ) and his record is ‘ok’ there .
I’m no fan but he is a very easy target mainly through his own doing .
Bancroft looks well off the level .

Agree with the rest though , Davey throwing his hands at the ball and getting away with it for a while might just be the trick to knock Broad and co off there game .
Nothing to lose .
 

thejockey

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I played for over 20 years and I only ever saw two players get hit in the head whilst unprotected. One was in the very early 80s when helmets weren't worn that much, an old school teacher of mine got hit in the temple fielding at short leg and almost died. When he eventually returned to school it was as if he'd had a stroke with a lot of one side of his body paralysed. The 2nd was in the 90s when a team mate who was an opening bat and religiously wore a helmet whether it was pace or spin bowling took his helmet off to face a spinner because it was stinking hot and he had been batting for a couple of hours already. The second ball he faced without his helmet on, he tried to sweep and top edged it straight into his mouth and shredded his lips and broke a couple of teeth. He never batted without one again.

I played first grade in Geelong for years and never saw anyone get hit in the head while they were batting that wasn't wearing a helmet, in fact I can barely recall seeing anyone get hit in the head at all, despite having numerous bowlers over the years that were capable and did bowl 90+ mph.
You had guys bowling 90mph in the GCA ? Am I reading that right ?
Glad I never played in that comp !
 
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That's fine to say in hindsight but I don't think it's a fair assessment of how things were at the time. First thing in the morning they were in real danger of losing, it made sense to assess the conditions and see off the first couple of spells from our bowlers.

Had they lost Stokes and Buttler in the first half an hour they 100% would've lost the game. Obviously runs started to come easy later but they raced from about 180 to 250 odd in a short space of time. If they'd declared earlier it would've been at best about 10 overs earlier and they would've been a real risk of us reaching the target.

The fact is England outplayed us the last two days. We can bang on about Archer or England being cheats with that Lab catch but we need to do better. Our top 3 has been pathetic and they should be under twice as much pressure with Smith likely out next Test.

I think the issue was more the scoring at the start of the day.

I agree that the early time should have been consolidating things but they went 10 overs too soon.

4-96 off 32.1 to start
4-117 off 42
4-151 off 52
5-185 off 62
5-258 off 71

I would even grant them 20 overs to solidify. After 20 overs, with 6 wickets in hand, there was no reason not to push for a big 10.

Better to have been 8-200 off 62, and with some luck could’ve been 6-215.

Then you can’t lose and you’ve still got nearly 60 overs to bowl, even if you wanted some insurance runs you don’t cost the result.
 
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That's fine to say in hindsight but I don't think it's a fair assessment of how things were at the time. First thing in the morning they were in real danger of losing, it made sense to assess the conditions and see off the first couple of spells from our bowlers.

Had they lost Stokes and Buttler in the first half an hour they 100% would've lost the game. Obviously runs started to come easy later but they raced from about 180 to 250 odd in a short space of time, to suggest they should've declared earlier was probably about 10 overs max which I don't think would've been the difference.

The fact is England outplayed us the last two days. We can bang on about Archer or England being cheats with that Lab catch but we need to do better. Our top 3 has been pathetic and they should be under twice as much pressure with Smith likely out next Test.
We simply need to field better. Top order will fire at some stage, Usman and Warner will click at least once or twice. But if we keep dropping dollies (the aforementioned are guilty here), keep pissing reviews up the wall, keep not bothering to even properly appeal for plumb shouts, and keep leaking runs behind the wicket, then we are no chance.

The energy in the field is all wrong, and it stems from Paine being both tactically inexperienced and too preoccupied with his own declining keeping standards.
Have not been impressed with Head in the field, way too lethargic and almost like a schoolboy in that he has to be reminded to get the ball in quick etc.
Hazlewood is a loafing space cadet.
Old man Siddle is slow and immobile.
Warner is on his learners in the cordon and just doesn't have the nous to field there... much better served as an attack dog in the ring.
Khawaja is half asleep.

Lyon and Cummins are generally excellent, Wade is good at throwing himself about, and Bancroft has been incredible not just with his catching in close but absolute urgency to stop any run getting past him.

As much as I don't want Smith to get the captaincy back, he at least sets a standard of urgency and focus in the field that we are sorely lacking. I don't think it is surprising that we went completely ragged in the second innings when he was not out there.
 
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Unless you have 3D cameras and coverage those catches that are half volleys really close to the fingers will never be accurately adjudicated on. 2 dimensions will always be distorted compared to 3.

When you can clearly see that the fingers aren't under the ball, it's easy to adjudicate on.

The problem was the muppet in charge of making that decision.
 
When you can clearly see that the fingers aren't under the ball, it's easy to adjudicate on.

The problem was the muppet in charge of making that decision.
Is the replay on line or on a twitter post? I haven't seen it yet.
 

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No chance we would’ve tried to chase down 220.
And even if we did, so what? England are 1-0 down and need to win the series.

Alternatively why did they bat nearly 40 overs yesterday? Could’ve made the runs quicker.

We made 164 with both our openers, khawaja wade and Paine all failing. 220 would of been very gettable if our openers and khawaja made some runs, it's a crazy risk.
 
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How that half volley that Root scooped up was given out is any ones guess. Modern Technology has to be better than that. I do understand having played a bit of cricket that Root might believe he snaffled it. So I am not calling him any names.
Simple. The umpire is chronically inept.
 
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David Warner hadn't played any Test or First Class cricket in over 12 months before this series. And he's proving why he should have been forced to show form before being selected again. Especially with his overseas record and poor form in South Africa prior to his suspension.

Smith being selected was warranted - he's the second best batsman of all time. Warner is nowhere near it and is showing why he shouldn't have come straight back in with no FC form.
... which is a different argument than your false equivalence before.

Play on.
 
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toml

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Renshaw had barely scored a run since the 2018 county season when the squad was chosen. He was never going to be considered. He must have been very close to being dropped by Queensland, and possibly only held his spot because he had recently been a Test player.

Nah wasn't even close to getting dropped. Wasn't making shield runs but from his 2 day premier cricket innings last season he averaged 295. The only other option we had last season was Sam Truloff and Qld had given up on him ever taking his grade/futures form to shield level (didn't renew his contract for the upcoming season). He will want to do well this shield season though because Bryce Street is lurking in the shadows.
 
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I think it might have been a draw because we were allowed a sub to bat. Any other era. Australia fold all out for 100 Lose Test end of story. This series could go either way our batting is about as woeful as can be. We don't have an opener..No3 is sketchy. Head ok but no big score in sight. This is a poor Australian side by any measure. Smith and Sub have saved Australia from 2 defeats.
You don't think that the rest of the order minus Labuschagne could bat for 48 overs? You don't think they'd have played rather differently with only 10 players?

I rather think you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 73. Hypotheticals are all very well and good, but getting bungled for 100's a bit out there.
 
Jan 6, 2004
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In any other era we simply hide that smith is concussed he bats anyway and risks permanent injury if struck again, this mythical past era where we aren't allowed a sub but smith refuses to bat again doesn't exist.

How anybody could think that was the better time in cricket is beyond me it was idiotic bravado over common sense and sound medical advice.
 
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Whilst England may have seemed slightly negative, there was far more to lose by losing this test than drawing. Lose it and you have to win all 3.

The shortened first session didnt help, basically meant you consolidated till lunch then reassessed after the break, then go hard after Lunch. Stokes nearing a century complicated things as well, only Paul Reiffel declares there!!!

But the ease which England scored shows just how flat the pitch was, so why would you give your opposition a sniff if the pitch is still playing well?

Even then, one very bad dropped catch gets taken and England may just have stolen the game last night. From yesterdays play, Stokes gains plenty of confidence, Buttler and Bairstow a little, Leach outbowled the GOAT! And Australia showed their batting lineup is still completely brittle on a flat pitch. Labuschagne may have made some runs, but Smith makes big hundreds, he ain't replicating that. The fact people take positives from Bancrofts innings show just how low the bar is set atm.
 
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