Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[petedavo]

Then go here»

COLD WAR AUSTRALIA

www.surplusvalue.org.au

Against the foregoing narratives, Burton's daughter's account can be considered of the goings-on in 1948 when MI5 made their visit to Australia to stop the leaks and find the Soviet moles

http://honesthistory.net.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/385A-John-Burton-Undermined-by-dishonest-history.pdf

 

[petedavo]

No thanks, please summarise what you think is relevant to 1st Decembeer 1948 and who the SM is?

To cut to the chase I'm leaning towards Somerton Man being an MI5 agent, and his death brought Hollis immediately to Australia to investigate whether his death was indicative of a compromise of operations, or was a private unrelated matter.

 

[BlueE]

There has been some incredible detailed research on SM, so I'm trying to take a wider view.

I believe almost certainly involved spying of some sort and there was a major cover. The formation of ASIO a few months later, visit of chief of MI5 indicates involving the highest levels of government. The Rubiayt a one time decipher pad used for messages.

The Cook report which is still suppressed may have details, but for something to be still hidden after 70 years, if it is some sort of espionage, means either no one has asked for it or there is some reason it should still be kept secret. I can think of a couple.

Every indication and a statement from Jessica's surviving daughter on 60 minutes is that Jessica had a son with the SM. DNA searches from the grand daughter (Rachel Egan) could be the best proof of who SM was.

The double breasted coat SM was wearing, thanks to very detailed evidence given by a tailor at the Inquest who recognised the stitching in the coat he said could only have been made by an American sewing machine and was American in design and gusset was definitely made in America or bought off someone who lived there. It was not imported to Australia.

Many of the strange contents of the suitcase could have been used to make ballet flats. The 1939 visit of Ballet Russe to Australia and NZ is a perfect cover for anyone involved in espionage, being made up of English, Russian, German and other nationalities. The athletic build, wedged toes and prominent calves of SM indicates he could have been part of a ballet group or at the very least he was well trained athletically. It's also possible Jessica had an earlier link to ballet, with photos and her encouraging her son to train to be a dancer.

The thought occurred that the suitcase with it's implements for making ballet flats and sports jacket of slightly different size than the coat SM was wearing could have been left from 1939 and was put there after the death to be found. That would mean another suitcase and the possibility SM stayed in a hotel for a few days. There was some evidence brought up by Pete Bowles and not mentioned in the Inquest that a female worker at he hotel had spoken to someone she thought was the SM and words tot he effect that he had an accent. "Didn't exactly mangle the English language" This would cut out English or American accents I believe.

The best indication of who he was are his physical characteristics, gingery blond hair, 5'11", light grey/blue eyes, broad shouldered and prominent calves his unusual teeth formation which most probably are genetic and his unusual ears. The widely promoted photo wasn't him IMO.

The genetic connection they've found from Rachel Egan so far that indicates relatives in America mostly from (Massachusetts? Connecticut?) and related to Thomas Jefferson and also a Scandinavian connection gives an interesting indication of who he could have been and I think can be narrowed down with a few suggestions.

 

[petedavo]

There has been some incredible detailed research on SM, so I'm trying to take a wider view.

I believe almost certainly involved spying of some sort and there was a major cover. The formation of ASIO a few months later, visit of chief of MI5 indicates involving the highest levels of government. The Rubiayt a one time decipher pad used for messages.

The Cook report which is still suppressed may have details, but for something to be still hidden after 70 years, if it is some sort of espionage, means either no one has asked for it or there is some reason it should still be kept secret. I can think of a couple.

Every indication and a statement from Jessica's surviving daughter on 60 minutes is that Jessica had a son with the SM. DNA searches from the grand daughter (Rachel Egan) could be the best proof of who SM was.

The double breasted coat SM was wearing, thanks to very detailed evidence given by a tailor at the Inquest who recognised the stitching in the coat he said could only have been made by an American sewing machine and was American in design and gusset was definitely made in America or bought off someone who lived there. It was not imported to Australia.

Many of the strange contents of the suitcase could have been used to make ballet flats. The 1939 visit of Ballet Russe to Australia and NZ is a perfect cover for anyone involved in espionage, being made up of English, Russian, German and other nationalities. The athletic build, wedged toes and prominent calves of SM indicates he could have been part of a ballet group or at the very least he was well trained athletically. It's also possible Jessica had an earlier link to ballet, with photos and her encouraging her son to train to be a dancer.

The thought occurred that the suitcase with it's implements for making ballet flats and sports jacket of slightly different size than the coat SM was wearing could have been left from 1939 and was put there after the death to be found. That would mean another suitcase and the possibility SM stayed in a hotel for a few days. There was some evidence brought up by Pete Bowles and not mentioned in the Inquest that a female worker at he hotel had spoken to someone she thought was the SM and words tot he effect that he had an accent. "Didn't exactly mangle the English language" This would cut out English or American accents I believe.

The best indication of who he was are his physical characteristics, gingery blond hair, 5'11", light grey/blue eyes, broad shouldered and prominent calves his unusual teeth formation which most probably are genetic and his unusual ears. The widely promoted photo wasn't him IMO.

The genetic connection they've found from Rachel Egan so far that indicates relatives in America mostly from (Massachusetts? Connecticut?) and related to Thomas Jefferson and also a Scandinavian connection gives an interesting indication of who he could have been and I think can be narrowed down with a few suggestions.

Thanks. I never heard half a this before.
I googled it and came up stories quoting a bloke named Abbott

Like this one

The Lost Man

An amateur sleuth thinks he's cracked one of the most legendary cold cases of all time.

stories.californiasunday.com

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[peteb]

Bowes, BlueE, that’s the right moniker.

A question: does anybody posting here have doubts that the man seen alive in the evening was the same man found dead in the morning?

 

[peteb]

And seeing I’m on ... Ina Harvey, the receptionist who described her visitor as not mangling the English language, was disbelieved because she said she sent someone to his room to look inside his bag ... for whatever reason ... and they said they saw a needle inside ... Harvey’s account was ridiculed by Feltus as pure bullshit, I have the email.
However, the bag was described as being something leather and quite small, like a doctor’s case, or a flute case.
If it was a flute case, then perhaps the needle was a flute needle ... I’ve googled it. Bingo!

 

[petedavo]

And seeing I’m on ... Ina Harvey, the receptionist who described her visitor as not mangling the English language, was disbelieved because she said she sent someone to his room to look inside his bag ... for whatever reason ... and they said they saw a needle inside ... Harvey’s account was ridiculed by Feltus as pure bulls**t, I have the email.
However, the bag was described as being something leather and quite small, like a doctor’s case, or a flute case.
If it was a flute case, then perhaps the needle was a flute needle ... I’ve googled it. Bingo!

Insulin kit?
Any history of diabetes in Robin's descendants?
Another possibility is Radium. It was supposedly touted as an exliar of youth before the war, and gullible people took radium, even injecting the s**t, using suppositories made of it, and wax pellets of it inserted into their urethra to cure erectile dysfunction, until they dropped dead.

Before 'raw water,' radium water was the craze — and then people died

Drinking radium water was supposed to bring youth and vitality. Instead, it brought death and disfigurement.

www.chicagotribune.com

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[BlueE]

Bowes, BlueE, that’s the right moniker.

A question: does anybody posting here have doubts that the man seen alive in the evening was the same man found dead in the morning?

Sorry about getting your name wrong.

Different witnesses who saw the man in the same position the night before and when discovered dead the next morning, described him with different trousers on.

My first thought was that he was driven to Jessica's house and cleaned up after soiling or vomiting on himself from probable poison. Explains the lack of expected vomit with probable poisoning as cause of death. Carried back later that night or early morning.

Do you think there were possibly 2 men?

I definitely think the photo that was disturbed and said to be the SM was of someone different. Doesn't match the physical description, though this was fairly brief in the autopsy, it was expanded on by the police information sent to different countries with the finger prints and the Taxidermist descriptions.

Also the photographer was ambiguous about whether the photograph was the man found at Somerton beach, but it was a photo of someone he was told to take.

 

[BlueE]

And seeing I’m on ... Ina Harvey, the receptionist who described her visitor as not mangling the English language, was disbelieved because she said she sent someone to his room to look inside his bag ... for whatever reason ... and they said they saw a needle inside ... Harvey’s account was ridiculed by Feltus as pure bulls**t, I have the email.
However, the bag was described as being something leather and quite small, like a doctor’s case, or a flute case.
If it was a flute case, then perhaps the needle was a flute needle ... I’ve googled it. Bingo!

I find her description of this visitor, how he sounded and his belonging very interesting. Are you able to post more information about what she says?

"Not mangling the English accent"suggests to me that English wasn't his native language but he wasn't bad at speaking it... suggesting German or Russian to me.

What do you think she meant? Did he have another suitcase of clothes or just this needle?

Hard to know why Feltus ridiculed this. Getting too narrowly focused, so rejecting what doesn't fit into their theory?

Flute needle? For vitreo retinal surgery? Sorry you'll have to spell out what you're suggesting here, or is it more an insulin needle like PeteDavo is suggesting?

I do find Abbott's digs into the publishers of the three different Rubaiyats (was there more?), very interesting. SM, Alf Boxall and George Marshall.

From memory Marshall's the Methuan 7th edition of the Fitzgerald translation, when there were only 5 editions published. One was a Whitcome and Tomes publication, Christchurch NZ book company and strangely where 3 Israeli's lost their lives outside in the Christchurch earthquake. They were suspected of being spies and their companions left NZ in a big hurry in a matter of hours.

 

[BlueE]

Thanks. I never heard half a this before.
I googled it and came up stories quoting a bloke named Abbott

Like this one

The Lost Man

An amateur sleuth thinks he's cracked one of the most legendary cold cases of all time.

stories.californiasunday.com

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Firstly I'm wondering why the author Graeme Wood from New Haven Conneticut, is so interested in the SM case? Given there is a possible USA connection I'm curious.

He seems to get a few facts wrong, like Jessica never married until 1950 a couple of months after Prosper Thompson got divorced not 1947 and that photo that doesn't match the description of SM.

Other wise a summary of the case and some of the personal relationships and clashes that have taken place among interested parties.

 

[peteb]

Flute needles are used to clean the grime from flutes ... it is entirely appropriate that one would be found in a flute case. A flute case looks remarkably like a doctor’s bag.
The gentleman had no other baggage, he also spent some time in the hotel lobby but was not seen to take a drink.
Some feel the unusual case may have been a passive recognition signal .. others think the Kensitas cigarettes in an Army Club pack may have been a similar signal.

 

[peteb]

Sorry about getting your name wrong.

Different witnesses who saw the man in the same position the night before and when discovered dead the next morning, described him with different trousers on.

My first thought was that he was driven to Jessica's house and cleaned up after soiling or vomiting on himself from probable poison. Explains the lack of expected vomit with probable poisoning as cause of death. Carried back later that night or early morning.

Do you think there were possibly 2 men?

I definitely think the photo that was disturbed and said to be the SM was of someone different. Doesn't match the physical description, though this was fairly brief in the autopsy, it was expanded on by the police information sent to different countries with the finger prints and the Taxidermist descriptions.

Also the photographer was ambiguous about whether the photograph was the man found at Somerton beach, but it was a photo of someone he was told to take.

The man seen in the evening was wearing striped trousers, the man found dead in the morning was wearing faun- brown ... it seems that many, including the police, the coroner and just about everyone else with an interest in the case failed to read Gordon Strapp’s deposition.
Two men.
Period.

 

[petedavo]

Firstly I'm wondering why the author Graeme Wood from New Haven Conneticut, is so interested in the SM case? Given there is a possible USA connection I'm curious.

He seems to get a few facts wrong, like Jessica never married until 1950 a couple of months after Prosper Thompson got divorced not 1947 and that photo that doesn't match the description of SM.

Other wise a summary of the case and some of the personal relationships and clashes that have taken place among interested parties.

You might find this interesting





Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[peteb]

One problem we have with Prof Abbott is that his research has often been proved faulty ... there is no doubt he is an earnest fellow, but there are others, unheralded, who know more about the case than he does.

 

[BlueE]

One problem we have with Prof Abbott is that his research has often been proved faulty ... there is no doubt he is an earnest fellow, but there are others, unheralded, who know more about the case than he does.

Kinda got that feeling but I do think DNA of Rachel Egan can solve this. His relationship with her complicates this impartiality but I truly think she can solve this with advances in the science and without any need to dig up a grave (that may or may not hold the SM).

I think his research on the publishers of the three Rubaiyat's from Boxall, SM and George Marshall is sound, but happy to be corrected. Marshall's connection through his brother to the first Prime Minister of Singapore and British connection would be another fantastical story.

 

[BlueE]

The man seen in the evening was wearing striped trousers, the man found dead in the morning was wearing faun- brown ... it seems that many, including the police, the coroner and just about everyone else with an interest in the case failed to read Gordon Strapp’s deposition.
Two men.
Period.

Or one man that was taken somewhere to get cleaned up and had his trousers changed??

I think there are two different men, one in the photo and the other from whom the cast was made from that has the connection with Jessica. I'm not sure the dark haired man was dead and always thought the story that his eyes were taken out the day after he was found with an autopsy is too strange. The cast that was made of him in June 1949 had eye colour described by the taxidermist.

Any more information on "didn't (quite) mangle the English language"?

 

[peteb]

Or one man that was taken somewhere to get cleaned up and had his trousers changed??

I think there are two different men, one in the photo and the other from whom the cast was made from that has the connection with Jessica. I'm not sure the dark haired man was dead and always thought the story that his eyes were taken out the day after he was found with an autopsy is too strange. The cast that was made of him in June 1949 had eye colour described by the taxidermist.

Any more information on "didn't (quite) mangle the English language"?

Are you suggesting the man seen moving in the evening was removed for a change of clothing then brought back dead ?

 

[BlueE]

Are you suggesting the man seen moving in the evening was removed for a change of clothing then brought back dead ?

I think that's the most likely scenario. There was a detailed examination of his organs and fluids that suggested SM had been poisoned. However the types of poison that was thought to be most likely to be used would have caused profuse vomiting. There was no sign of vomiting and he was clean and neatly dressed. Time of death was thought to be around 2 - 3 am.

The jockey that saw him that evening and found him early the next morning in exactly the same place in exactly the same position with his head propped up against the sea wall in suit jacket, shirt and tie with dress trousers and shiny shoes and socks. This witness didn't think he was moving at all. Gordon, the witness walking on the promenade who saw the lower half of his body, thought he may have reflexly moved an arm and described his trousers as a different colour that he was wearing the next morning.

I think it's more likely he was moved to clean him up of vomit to disguise he was poisoned so natural causes cold be considered the reason for his death. Or care for him if someone he knew thought he could be saved. He could easily have been carried to a car and taken to Jessica's house close by. Wasn't there another witness who saw a man carrying another man on his shoulders coming to the beach later that evening?

The other scenario that someone unrelated was well enough to get up and walk away, but later someone wearing a suit jacket, shirt and tie and dress trousers was put in exactly the same position in exactly the same part of the beach for no reason is less likely to me.

 

[peteb]

I think that's the most likely scenario. There was a detailed examination of his organs and fluids that suggested SM had been poisoned. However the types of poison that was thought to be most likely to be used would have caused profuse vomiting. There was no sign of vomiting and he was clean and neatly dressed. Time of death was thought to be around 2 - 3 am.

The jockey that saw him that evening and found him early the next morning in exactly the same place in exactly the same position with his head propped up against the sea wall in suit jacket, shirt and tie with dress trousers and shiny shoes and socks. This witness didn't think he was moving at all. Gordon, the witness walking on the promenade who saw the lower half of his body, thought he may have reflexly moved an arm and described his trousers as a different colour that he was wearing the next morning.

I think it's more likely he was moved to clean him up of vomit to disguise he was poisoned so natural causes cold be considered the reason for his death. Or care for him if someone he knew thought he could be saved. He could easily have been carried to a car and taken to Jessica's house close by. Wasn't there another witness who saw a man carrying another man on his shoulders coming to the beach later that evening?

The other scenario that someone unrelated was well enough to get up and walk away, but later someone wearing a suit jacket, shirt and tie and dress trousers was put in exactly the same position in exactly the same part of the beach for no reason is less likely to me.

There is no account of a jockey seeing a man by the steps in the evening. Gordon Strapps, the witness, was sitting on a bench with his girlfriend when they observed him .... with respect, BlueE, you seem to have your facts wrong.

 

[peteb]

And, may I add, the trousers being worn by the man seen in the evening were not of ‘a different colour’ ... they were striped, whereas the dead man was wearing plain faun-brown trousers. I believe I mentioned this a couple of posts ago, and referenced it to Gordon Strapp’s deposition.
Once again, you seem to have your facts wrong.

 

[BlueE]

There is no account of a jockey seeing a man by the steps in the evening. Gordon Strapps, the witness, was sitting on a bench with his girlfriend when they observed him .... with respect, BlueE, you seem to have your facts wrong.

On December 1, 1948, in Adelaide, Australia, a young jockey, Neil Day, was riding his horse on Somerton beach. It was around 6:30 a.m. when he and his riding mate discovered the body of a clean-shaven man wearing a brown suit. It's this jockey or his riding mate who I think was a Miller, that I read about riding their horses the evening before and gave an account of SM lying where he was found and they went to investigate because they were worried he was in the same position as the night before.

However there are also accounts from John Lyons from the Inquest who gave a detailed description of the man from the evening of 30th November lying with his legs outstretched and crossed and his arm moving straight upwards in a reflex type action. He also saw him dead the next morning around 6.35 am when he went to the beach for his early morning swim with two friends and saw two men on horses looking at the body.

He said that although he wasn't close enough to see the man's face or clothes the night before, the man was in the same position as he's seen him and he was certain it was the same man.

 

[BlueE]

And, may I add, the trousers being worn by the man seen in the evening were not of ‘a different colour’ ... they were striped, whereas the dead man was wearing plain faun-brown trousers. I believe I mentioned this a couple of posts ago, and referenced it to Gordon Strapp’s deposition.
Once again, you seem to have your facts wrong.

"I should say he had brown striped trousers on." Gordon Strapps

I found it hard to find any description of plain faun brown trousers, do you have a link for that?

The trousers he was wearing was made of crusader cloth and the thought occurs to me that Strapp could be describing a fine stripe in brown trousers that SM was wearing.





Could be the difference between the brown stripe on the left and the plain brown on right?

 

[peteb]

Gordon Strapps was sitting a few feet away from the man, his description is first hand ... you, on the other hand are basing your argument by exhibiting a trouser advertisement over 70 years old ... remembering that Strapps was of the opinion that the striped trousers may have been part of a suit.
My research over the past ten years have convinced me that the two witnesses whose depositions were not taken seriously were Strapps and Moss ... both men were low on the social and professional scale at the time.
I have another question for you BlueE ... were any matches found on the body?

 

[peteb]

In addition, if you have any doubts about the trousers worn by the dead man, check the cover of Gerry Feltus’ book ... together with the book’s contents. I’m assuming you have read it.

 

[BlueE]

Gordon Strapps was sitting a few feet away from the man, his description is first hand ... you, on the other hand are basing your argument by exhibiting a trouser advertisement over 70 years old ... remembering that Strapps was of the opinion that the striped trousers may have been part of a suit.
My research over the past ten years have convinced me that the two witnesses whose depositions were not taken seriously were Strapps and Moss ... both men were low on the social and professional scale at the time.
I have another question for you BlueE ... were any matches found on the body?

No, I believe what Gordon described in the Inquest, brown striped trousers, and that it may have been part of a suit. I asked where you got the information that the SM was found with faun-brown trousers and I assume you're saying the Feltus book cover?

All the information I could find from the Inquest descriptions besides Gordon's said plain brown and crusader material and they could have been purchased at any shop in Australia.

This differs from the suit coat he was wearing which was double breasted and when pulled apart by the seams was said by the expert tailor witness to have been a partially fitted coat that could only have been made in America. He was said to have a sports jacket in his suitcase and no overcoat.

This double breasted suit coat that he was wearing when found could have been the match to the trousers Gordon saw.

There were Gordon's girl he was walking with that night, Lyon and the two jockies that saw the man lying with his head and shoulders against the sea wall that night. Gordon couldn't sea his face and only his trousers. Lyon and the two jockies that found him at 6.30 am on 1st December the next day thought he was in exactly the same place and position.

All I'm saying is that if he had different trousers on when he was found I think it's more likely he was taken and cleaned up and another pair of none matching trousers were put on.

For there to be another person who comes and lies in the same place and the same position is too much of a co-incidence? Not that I don't believe there were two bodies.

If he was taken and cleaned up because of vomiting this would explain the difficulty the medial examiners had in deciding which poisons could have been used as the most likely one for the effect it left on his body also caused vomiting.

I don't find the Feltu's book cover helpful as the picture of his face has been taken from the widely circulated photo which doesn't match the physical description of SM. The suit coat he is shown with looks like a sports coat which was found in his suitcase and not a double breasted (vaguely see a double breast) suit coat. The only description of the trousers besides that of Gordon's that I've seen was plain brown and don't think what is drawn on the book cover is close, could be wrong though.

I don't think Gordon Strapps was ignored, but he wasn't the only witness and whatever happened becomes part of the cover up IMO.