The state of the Giants and Suns

[Damon_3388]

So do we keep local youngsters who are not good enough?

No, but can you really determine categorically whether these kids aren't up to it, at age 20-21, with very limited senior opportunities in a poor side?

Not really sure where it's gone wrong for Leslie. Feels like he had limited opportunity despite size and high-ish draft positions, and has just gotten less and less in favour (delisted, then Rookie Listed last year).

It's just feels a bit rich and a bit uncomfortable to delist young locals and guys in areas of need, to only then continue to top up with MOR mature-agers and state leaguers, and ask for premium draft picks.

 

[La Dispute]

Did starting at Gold Coast ruin the careers of Jaegar O’Meara, Tom Lynch or Dion Prestia? The hyperbole that Gold Coast are actively blunting young players astounds me, and not only that, it’s a huge double standard.

Talented players constantly leaving is one of the biggest reasons Gold Coast are in the mire, and until this is rectified they’ll continue to be tethered to the bottom.

The audacity of supporters of established clubs to suggest the Gold Coast shouldn’t be helped out - despite the fact their own clubs get bailed out by the AFL - is laughable.

 

[Billy ray]

No, but can you really determine categorically whether these kids aren't up to it, at age 20-21, with very limited senior opportunities in a poor side?

Not really sure where it's gone wrong for Leslie. Feels like he had limited opportunity despite size and high-ish draft positions, and has just gotten less and less in favour (delisted, then Rookie Listed last year).

It's just feels a bit rich and a bit uncomfortable to delist young locals and guys in areas of need, to only then continue to top up with MOR mature-agers and state leaguers, and ask for premium draft picks.

Larger list would help in this.

 

[Bay Giant]

So do we keep local youngsters who are not good enough?

Well yes, NARRATIVE!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I reiterate that there has been no team in history that has been given the leg ups they have, and now another high profile recruit today wants out.

You can reiterate statements that are wrong as much as you like. It doesn't make you any more right.

Their salary cap is in a state of disrepair and they're still asking for handouts, pick 2 for Lachie weller under the existing Admins direction.

Oh dear Tiger, further proving you know not of what you speak. Scott Clayton was responsible for that decision and he's gone. They had a new list manager for 2018 onwards.

The facts are that they have failed

Last I checked they're still alive and kicking, and averaging more than 10 000 at home games despite having an awful side. Go whine some more about how they shouldn't exist.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Delisting two local kids in their second and third year today (Brad Scheer and Connor Nutting) also brings into question the Suns' commitment to their youngsters and to local/academy talent.

Why, do all clubs keep players on the list who aren't good enough for the AFL, just because they're locals? That's a loser mentality.

 

[Damon_3388]

Larger list would help in this.

I think a lowering of the minimum TPP to 90% of the cap would be more valueable than having any more than 36 senior list spots and 6 rookie spots. That would prevent the need to list and overpay journeymen, retain guys who clearly aren't best 22 (Tom Nicholls hasn't played a senior game since 2016), and reduce the need to overpay youngsters (I know part of it is retention).

 

[kreglze]

I

No, but can you really determine categorically whether these kids aren't up to it, at age 20-21, with very limited senior opportunities in a poor side?

Not really sure where it's gone wrong for Leslie. Feels like he had limited opportunity despite size and high-ish draft positions, and has just gotten less and less in favour (delisted, then Rookie Listed last year).

It's just feels a bit rich and a bit uncomfortable to delist young locals and guys in areas of need, to only then continue to top up with MOR mature-agers and state leaguers, and ask for premium draft picks.

These lads will be replaced by Budarick and Gore on our list both being academy prospects this season.

Currently our list is close to 25% QLDers which is pretty good, our hope would be to get that up towards 50 in years to come, however we can't just keep playing local lads who aren't good enough. The hope would be these lads go back to the NEAFL and raise its standard so we can produce more local talent and the cycle happens like that.

Poor Leslie was a pet project of Clayton to turn into a defender and never grew into it. He was a decent reach (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong) in the draft, he has grafted out a decent wedge and I hope he goes back to local footy kills it and gets a chance somewhere else.

To anyone that has any knowledge of the Sun's knows these lads weren't going to cut the mustard unfortunately.

 

[Damon_3388]

Why, do all clubs keep players on the list who aren't good enough for the AFL, just because they're locals? That's a loser mentality.

As I said, can you really determine categorically whether these kids aren't up to it, at age 20-21, with very limited senior opportunities in a poor side?

To say yes, and then turn around and ask for longer mandatory draftee contracts too, is again, a bit rich.

 

[Damon_3388]

I

These lads will be replaced by Budarick and Gore on our list both being academy prospects this season.

Poor Leslie was a pet project of Clayton to turn into a defender and never grew into it. He was a decent reach (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong) in the draft, he has grafted out a decent wedge and I hope he goes back to local footy kills it and gets a chance somewhere else.

Look, fair enough.

Just felt a bit wrong in light of the concessions/changes that were being asked for, that's all.

 

[Billy ray]

Has anyone got that document comparing the start up concessions between the suns and the giants?

 

[Bay Giant]

Has anyone got that document comparing the start up concessions between the suns and the giants?

You still would’ve ballsed it up if being were exactly the same.

Your fans have said the same thing - there was a remarkable lack of leadership recruited to the club upon foundation.

We took on some old campaigners that threw themselves at the young kids on the training track and set really high standards.

You had Garry getting them in a huddle and praying.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

As I said, can you really determine categorically whether these kids aren't up to it, at age 20-21, with very limited senior opportunities in a poor side?

To say yes, and then turn around and ask for longer mandatory draftee contracts too, is again, a bit rich.

Leslie is 24. The campaign for longer draftee contracts is clearly aimed at ensuring premium talent doesn't walk out after two years. Nutting and Scheer weren't premium talent, they were late round picks. If they showed enough talent they'd still be on a roster that finished last by quite some distance. What do you think the odds are that either of them are going to be picked up by other AFL clubs for next season?

 

[Billy ray]

You still would’ve ballsed it up if being were exactly the same.

Your fans have said the same thing - there was a remarkable lack of leadership recruited to the club upon foundation.

We took on some old campaigners that threw themselves at the young kids on the training track and set really high standards.

You had Garry getting them in a huddle and praying.

Oh yeh no doubt. People in this thread are just regurgitating the same false statements about concessions etc.

If only they would save their time and effort because our teams arent going anywhere.

 

[Bay Giant]

Oh yeh no doubt. People in this thread are just regurgitating the same false statements about concessions etc.

If only they would save their time and effort because our teams arent going anywhere.

Just imagine when you do get it right and if you jag 2 x flags in the ‘20’s...You’ll have twice the amount of flags as St kilda in a touch over a decade; wonder how they’ll view your club then

 

[werdna78]

Has anyone got that document comparing the start up concessions between the suns and the giants?

All clubs get concessions. The weaker you are the more money you get. Weak Melbourne clubs get money just like the Northern clubs. We need all the 18 teams for the current TV rights deal.

Big clubs can stand on their own 2 feet.

Some clubs wouldn't exist if they didn't get the AFL handout. You would probably have 5 Victorian teams, WC, 2 X SA teams and Sydney left, if the AFL stopped handing money, which is it's job.

 

[DaveEgoat]

What exactly does the team the OP supports have to do with him making a thread about this topic? Is he not allowed to because he barracks for Sydney? Why is his opinion discounted because of that?

Seriously, it’s the lamest attempt at derailing a thread because you’ve got nothing decent to add.

Look out. The cheese platter brigade is after me. My sincerest apologies for pointing out those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

 

[Billy ray]

 

[GC2015]

Well when Rupert Murdoch himself tells you he wants you to push further into NSW and QLD markets after handing you $2 billion in TV rights, it's a pretty easy decision. You fulfil the requests when its tied to your biggest revenue stream.

Above all else, this makes the juice worth the squeeze.

 

[demondavey]

Look out. The cheese platter brigade is after me. My sincerest apologies for pointing out those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

Your entire contribution to this topic should be taken with a grain of salt given you’re acting like a toddler.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

You can reiterate statements that are wrong as much as you like. It doesn't make you any more right.


Oh dear Tiger, further proving you know not of what you speak. Scott Clayton was responsible for that decision and he's gone. They had a new list manager for 2018 onwards.


Last I checked they're still alive and kicking, and averaging more than 10 000 at home games despite having an awful side. Go whine some more about how they shouldn't exist.

Dew made a captains call in that decision, further, do you think that their list has actually improved since 2018.....its gone south.

10k at home games.... Rofl, do you believe the figures put out? If it is really 10k then the bar is very low for acceptable crowd size.

Plastic failed state asking for more handouts, it won't save them. Shame as the q clash was something to really look forward to each year.

 

[Billy ray]

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

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This is good info but the sun's did also have arguably the best or one of the best players of all time play for them as well. The suns wanted to be competitive from the get go which is admirable but their execution was poor and their target players from other clubs were inferior and ultimately took the piss.

 

[La Dispute]

GWS get talked about as a case study in successfully introducing an expansion club into the league, which is true from a performance perspective, but if the Gold Coast were consistently making the finals they’d generating more interest and getting bigger crowds than GWS.

The average crowd attendance shows there is latent support, they just need a sustained push up the ladder and few years of decent retention to snowball into something bigger.

I think they just generally need a few generations of Gold Coast veterans to substantiate their culture, and show the younger players they can make a decent career playing for them. Think Swallow, Witts, Miller, Bowes etc. A player like Rowell coming in next year and having a debut year like Sam Walsh this year would also be a huge for them.

 

[Billy ray]

This is good info but the sun's did also have arguably the best or one of the best players of all time play for them as well. The suns wanted to be competitive from the get go which is admirable but their execution was poor and their target players from other clubs were inferior and ultimately took the piss.

2014 we were on our way. In top 8. Large crowds.
And then that tackle on gaz jnr