List Mgmt. 2019 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Colonial]

MDB back for another well earned year.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

This is a guy who signs one year contracts every year - this year he’s signed two.

 

[Danny88]

Wonder if it was a heater esque pay cut

 

[Andre the Giant]

MDB back for another well earned year.

He’s been super and deserves the extra year. Found his niche as an elite tagger.

 

[dlanod]

Wonder if it was a heater esque pay cut

I don't know that he'd be on much of anything anyway. He came up as a delistee.

 

[Bay Giant]

I don't know that he'd be on much of anything anyway. He came up as a delistee.

Probably $220,000 - which, let's be honest, is bloody great coin to the regular Joe.

 

[Gigantic]

Great that we have De Boer signed for the next two years.

Small sample size but he has shown he could be one of the premier taggers in the league.

Also, goes to show he really wants to be here and accepted the offer as soon as it was tabled, which was probably only the last day or two on the back of Cogs re-signing providing better visibility over salary cap for the next couple years.

 

[fridgeman]

It will be interesting to see what happens at trade period and although it would be great to have a pick before Green is bid on I dont think it is achievable unless the club trades out a surprise player or has eyes on someone and looks to use a pick from 2020,

Some scenarios for a bid on Green
#111329 points + #13 1212
Swans bid at #5 will leave the club with pick 22 as change
Saints bid at #6 will leave the club with pick 19 as change

What I can see the club doing is only using 1 pick to match so the club can still have another pick inside the first rd and with plenty of deals going on I can see the club following on from past seasons looking to have something like 2 1st rd and 2 2nd rd picks for the draft

I still think Jacobs is a lock to come to the club and then it will be between either Ceglar or Cameron and it will be interesting to see how the club approaches the ruck issue as it has only really had a competitive ruck for 3 years 2014-2016 with 2017 when Mumford did his ankle

 

[fridgeman]

Dates for the AFL trade/draft period

Tuesday 1 October - Friday 4 October - NAB AFL Draft Combine

Friday 4 October - AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period Commences.

Monday 7 October 9am - NAB AFL Trade Period Commences.

Thursday 10 October 5pm - Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Sunday 13 October - AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer Three-Day Period Ends.

Wednesday 16 October - NAB AFL Trade Period Closes (for exchange of players).

Thursday 17 October - AFL Trade Period Opens (selections only).

Friday 18 October 5pm - Application to Relist a Player Close

Thursday 31 October 2pm - List Lodgement (1) ; Rookie Promotion to Primary List; Retained 2nd & 3rd Year Rookies; International Scholarship Player; Alternate Talent Player Nominations; Club Notification of Rookie Players Not Accepting a Contract of Offer; Nomination of Draft Eligible Father/Son; Northern Academy, Next Generation Academy Players Lodged; TPP Pre-Season Estimates (1).

Friday 1 November - AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) Commences
Monday 11 November- AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) Closes, Out of Contract Listed AFLPrimary List Players Draft Nomination Form and Player Request for Removal from List Form Lodged with AFL

Tuesday 12 November 2pm - List Lodgement (2); TPP Pre-Season Estimates (2)

Wednesday 13 November - AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) Commences

Friday 22 November 2pm - NAB AFL Trade Period Closes (for exchange of selections only); Delisted Primary List Draft Nomination Form Lodgement; Non–Retained Rookie Players Draft Nomination Form Lodgement; Players Not Registered or Played for Three years Rookie List Form Lodgement; New or Expired (after 3 years) Draft Nomination Form Lodgement, AFL Father-Son Bidding Nominations, Final Draft Nomination Form Lodgement.

Friday 22 November 5pm - AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) Closes

Wednesday 27 November 7pm - 9.30pm - NAB AFL Draft Selection Meeting (Round One), Marvel Stadium.

Thursday 28 November 7pm - 9.30pm - NAB AFL Draft Selection Meeting (Round Two onwards to conclusion).

Thursday 28 November (post draft) - AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3)



Monday 2 December 2pm - Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[Danny88]

It will be interesting to see what happens at trade period and although it would be great to have a pick before Green is bid on I dont think it is achievable unless the club trades out a surprise player or has eyes on someone and looks to use a pick from 2020,

Some scenarios for a bid on Green
#111329 points + #13 1212
Swans bid at #5 will leave the club with pick 22 as change
Saints bid at #6 will leave the club with pick 19 as change

What I can see the club doing is only using 1 pick to match so the club can still have another pick inside the first rd and with plenty of deals going on I can see the club following on from past seasons looking to have something like 2 1st rd and 2 2nd rd picks for the draft

I still think Jacobs is a lock to come to the club and then it will be between either Ceglar or Cameron and it will be interesting to see how the club approaches the ruck issue as it has only really had a competitive ruck for 3 years 2014-2016 with 2017 when Mumford did his ankle

I love the idea of getting ahead and getting a player before green

Dunno who we would take tho... we need a creative half back really


Anyone know the options?

 

[captainMyCaptain]

I love the idea of getting ahead and getting a player before green

Dunno who we would take tho... we need a creative half back really


Anyone know the options?

Hayden Young would be the guy that matches that and is a likely top 5 pick

 

[Giant Strides]

For mine, a big tick to the list management team at this point in time. The main outcome - re-signing Cogs - is achieved and honestly most anything else is gravy. We have just 4 unsigned players for next year (apart from the 2 retirements & most rookies naturally), and those being Tommo, Bunts, Heater & Sheridan are all either expendable or 'wait & see' types. Plus the rumours around Patton & Bonar departing - both of whom we can live without given the state of the rest of the list - so I think we are in good shape ahead of the trade period (barring any surprise requests to depart).

Without knowing the exact state of the club's TPP position, I think that we wouldn't be absolutely on the edge (as was rumoured last year - absolutely no similar rumours from the press this year) but would be looking forward to next year and wanting to secure Jezza & Lachie ahead of time if possible, and therefore make maximum $ available for increased offers to them.

Therefore, I would accept that it's likely that Tommo, Patton & Bonar do go, as their departures would all improve our $ bottom line. It would be sad to see the two originals depart - and they'd go with my best wishes - but I do believe they are all expendable given our current list position. Patton at best gets us Hawk's third round pick (currently #45) or Jon Ceglar (and personally I'd take Ceglar and retire Mummy); Tommo as a RFA probably at best gets us a second round compensation pick - so in the range #31 to #37). Bonar has lost currency, so best result for us might be a pick upgrade that helps with the scenario of getting a draft pick before Tom Green gets bid on. On Heater, Sheridan & Bunts, of those I'd most keep Sheridan as handy depth (outside run players I see as a weakness) but ultimately think whether they stay on, retire (in Heater's case) or are delisted/rookied comes down to the vision the club has for the list & how it manages the list spots.

In respect of the Tom Green scenario, if we want to get ahead of any bid without screwing ourselves by paying too much to rise up the draft order, I'd envisage a scenario plays out such as (all picks pushed back by 1 accounting for Gold Coast priority pick, GWS picks from worst case Ess 8th & GWS 7th):

• Bonar + #12 to North Melbourne for #8 + #26 (Norths pay 2280 pts, get Bonar & 1268 pts back, valuing Bonar at #18)
• #8 + #13 to Melbourne for #3 + #57 (Melbourne get 2763 pts for 2416 pts in return, stay in top 10 but get 2 first round picks)
• GWS hold picks #3 (ML trade), #26 (NM trade), #50 (own 3rd rd), #57 (ML trade) + Tommo compo pick (mid/late 2nd rd)

The best trade partners are those with viable return picks in second & third rounds so we don't get screwed by loss of points (as in the McCarthy trade with Freo & Brisbane trade for #2 to get Taranto were wasteful of picks that we cannot afford this year) so Melbourne, Sydney, Norths and to a lesser extent Adelaide. I've used a third party here because I think that Melbourne, Adelaide & Sydney would value their very early draft selections at a premium, whereas someone else wanting to do some creative trading (such as Norths) might see better mutual value.

That scenario gets us a look at everyone after Gold Coast (almost inevitably) select Matt Rowell & Noah Anderson at #1 & #2. Those I'd think GWS would look at then are Hayden Young & Lachie Ash. I'd throw in Will Gould from SA as being a similar mould to Heater, and perhaps (IMHO) the best balanced in terms of one-on-one defence plus capacity to counter-attack as opposed to Young/Ash being more counterattacking weapons but perhaps poorer defenders; but at 191 cms and slower than Ash or Young I'd rate him unlikely to be on GWS's target list with such an early pick. Player descriptions from Knightmare's ESPN column:

Hayden Young

Best position: General defence/midfield
Height, weight: 188cm, 82kg
Recruited from: Dandenong Stingrays
Projected draft range: 3-10
Plays like: Christian Salem
Rationale: Provides consistent drive from defence with his work by foot a highlight.
Strengths: Versatility to play defence or midfield, aggressive attack on the ball, precise and damaging kick, vision, decision making, run and carry, one-on-one defence, defensive accountability, reading of the drop of the ball, intercept marking, contested ball winning, stoppage work
Weaknesses: Sometimes too accountable, finding outside time and space, needs to provide a marking target more often around the ground rather than moving around the back and running by as often for cheap possessions

Lachlan Ash

Best position: General defence
Height, weight: 186cm, 80kg
Recruited from: Murray Bushrangers
Projected draft range: 3-10
Plays like: Kade Simpson
Rationale: A well-rounded defender who intercepts and hurts the opposition with his run and precision by foot from defence.
Strengths: Line breaking run and carry, agility, evasion, damaging kick, vision, intercept marking, reading of the ball in flight, ground ball winning, tackling, forward pressure, versatility to push up through the midfield
Weaknesses: Can try to do too much with ball in hand, contested ball winning, unclear midfield potential

Will Gould

Best position: General defence/key defence
Height, weight: 191cm, 98kg
Recruited from: Glenelg
Projected draft range: 5-20
Plays like: Shannon Hurn
Rationale: An Under-18 All-Australian, Gould is the most physically advanced and imposing prospect in the pool. A season one-ready defender who performs reliably at SANFL League level each week. Rises on the back of a strong finish to the Under-18 Championships and consistent SANFL League form
Strengths: One-on-one strength, penetrating and damaging kick with 60m penetration, vision, reading of the ball in flight, intercept marking, consistent performances on the board against SANFL league competition, aggression, attack on the ball, explosive speed, strength through the hips to stand up through tackles, leadership through on field example
Weaknesses: Endurance, unclear whether tall enough to be a key defender at AFL level

So, that gets us a defender and Heater replacement (which would allow us to retire him, or give him a final year with less games as we give experience to the draftee), and then if Green is bid on by Adelaide or (more likely IMHO) Sydney, the two second round picks plus two third round picks would be sufficient points to cover. For our third (required) national draft selection, we either upgrade a rookie or take a late selection of someone like Delahunty or Peatling. Delahunty may be bid on earlier so we may lose him if Green is bid early and we lack points in the later part of the draft (noting we also have a points debt from last year's draft to pay - I can't remember exactly how many - and I don't know how 'payment' of those points occurs).

One question I don't have answers for is in respect of Sproule & Stein's status- I think they are both at the end of their third year as rookies so need to be either upgraded to the main list (which impacts on open positions & therefore points-carrying picks) or delisted and re-rookied (which carries a risk of losing them to another club - which I don't want to do). dlanod you always understand these things pretty well, what's your take on them?

 

[Giant Pete]

I hope we take James Peatling from our Academy. He’ll need a couple of years to fill out but he certainly has speed and agility... and he is a western Sydney boy!

I still think Tom Green won’t go top 5. Our list management team did a great job around manouvering our way up and down the list to get what we want... so I have good faith in their strategies.

I reckon the happiest person with Cogs re-signing is Leon without a doubt. It means we are going to be more likely to re-sign Jazz and Lachie, therefore stay in the hunt.
With Cogs, Jazz, Lachie, Josh, Zac, Hopper, Haynes, Taranto, Himmelberg and Sammy Taylor, there is enough high end talent at the right age to ensure we remain competitive.
Surround them with the likes of experienced players like Cal, Phil, Sam Reid, Dutchy, and youth like Hatley, Bobby, Binga, Jye, Tom Green, Shipper we have a great spread of age now.
I feel as bullish about our list as I ever have.

 

[Giant Pete]

I hope we take James Peatling from our Academy. He’ll need a couple of years to fill out but he certainly has speed and agility... and he is a western Sydney boy!

I still think Tom Green won’t go top 5. Our list management team did a great job around manouvering our way up and down the list to get what we want... so I have good faith in their strategies.

I reckon the happiest person with Cogs re-signing is Leon without a doubt. It means we are going to be more likely to re-sign Jazz and Lachie, therefore stay in the hunt.
With Cogs, Jazz, Lachie, Josh, Zac, Hopper, Haynes, Taranto, Himmelberg and Sammy Taylor, there is enough high end talent at the right age to ensure we remain competitive.
Surround them with the likes of experienced players like Cal, Phil, Sam Reid, Dutchy, and youth like Hatley, Bobby, Binga, Jye, Tom Green, Shipper we have a great spread of age now.
I feel as bullish about our list as I ever have.

Forgot about Toby and Kenner’s.

 

[dlanod]

One question I don't have answers for is in respect of Sproule & Stein's status- I think they are both at the end of their third year as rookies so need to be either upgraded to the main list (which impacts on open positions & therefore points-carrying picks) or delisted and re-rookied (which carries a risk of losing them to another club - which I don't want to do). @dlanod you always understand these things pretty well, what's your take on them?

That's basically spot on, though in general if you haven't locked up a spot after three years you're more than likely being delisted.

 

[David C]

Reilly O'Brien was the one I would have wanted to target prior to him re-signing till 2021 this year. Showed glimpses as Adelaides number 1 ruck - has the strength and mobility and only scratching the surface of what hes capable of at 23 years old. However given contracts mean so little these days, would want to at the very least enquire.

Not so many top ruckmen we can pry away at the moment though. Goldstein the closest but he would cost too much for a 31 year old in my opinion.

Perhaps Soldo?

Edit: Didnt think about McEvoy (30 years old), but he would be good if the hawks are willing to part and if not too expensive trade/money wise.

Soldo just signed for 2 more years I think. Haven't you guys been linked to Nick Roberton at the lions? He's OOC so doesn't surprise me that he's looking around but would have thought Freo would be interested being a WA lad.

 

[crows dude]

So I hear Jacobs is coming to GWS next year. He said no to playing in the SANFL finals yesterday and then we had our only ruck pull out before the game. Hence we got smashed in the ruck and lost by a 30 points. Within a kick a 3 qtr time. Jacobs lost us this yesterday. They are saying GWS didnt want him playing even though hes still contracted until October. Didnt stop him playing the last game of the year in the AFL forcing ROb to be dropped back to the SANFl.

Sorry just venting. Pretty angry with Sauce right now not putting the team first.

 

[Danny88]

So I hear Jacobs is coming to GWS next year. He said no to playing in the SANFL finals yesterday and then we had our only ruck pull out before the game. Hence we got smashed in the ruck and lost by a 30 points. Within a kick a 3 qtr time. Jacobs lost us this yesterday. They are saying GWS didnt want him playing even though hes still contracted until October. Didnt stop him playing the last game of the year in the AFL forcing ROb to be dropped back to the SANFl.

Sorry just venting. Pretty angry with Sauce right now not putting the team first.

I highly doubt that story is true.

 

[Colonial]

So I hear Jacobs is coming to GWS next year. He said no to playing in the SANFL finals yesterday and then we had our only ruck pull out before the game. Hence we got smashed in the ruck and lost by a 30 points. Within a kick a 3 qtr time. Jacobs lost us this yesterday. They are saying GWS didnt want him playing even though hes still contracted until October. Didnt stop him playing the last game of the year in the AFL forcing ROb to be dropped back to the SANFl.

Sorry just venting. Pretty angry with Sauce right now not putting the team first.

Sounds bullshit.

 

[dlanod]

Doesn't necessarily surprise me - remember Treloar consulting Collingwood's medicos, not our's.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Well we had lots of our players on the park for a second tier final yesterday as well. Can’t see why or how we’d object, let alone demand, a player from another club not do the same.

What a f#$ken stupid rumour.

No idea why he didn’t play for SANFL and no idea why your team lost.

I mean FMD but we get blamed for a lot of absolute utter f#*ken bulls#*t at times but I’m sure as s#*t not going to wear a loss by some team I don’t care about in an Effing SANFL game.

Nope
Nope
Nope

Go adjust the tin in the foil hat, point it toward Venus, who’s rising through Scorpio this time of year, and look for someone else to blame for your loss.

 

[Giant Strides]

To be fair, it's entirely possible that if Sam Jacobs has essentially decided (or even agreed prior to the actual trade window) that he's leaving Adelaide, that he doesn't want to get injured in a game that means nothing to him. In fact, it probably doesn't matter if he's got any agreement - just the fact that he's out of contract and hence any injury might impact his ability to get paid for the next 2 years.

Let the poor dude vent, Crows have had a crap season. We're yet to see if the Jacobs to GWS story comes to reality.

 

[Andre the Giant]

To be fair, it's entirely possible that if Sam Jacobs has essentially decided (or even agreed prior to the actual trade window) that he's leaving Adelaide, that he doesn't want to get injured in a game that means nothing to him. In fact, it probably doesn't matter if he's got any agreement - just the fact that he's out of contract and hence any injury might impact his ability to get paid for the next 2 years.

Let the poor dude vent, Crows have had a crap season. We're yet to see if the Jacobs to GWS story comes to reality.

Wouldn’t be much different to Patton not playing to ensure he doesn’t get hurt and protect his value. Goes on at every club and honestly players couldn’t care less about secondary comps unless that is their limit.

 

[Giant Strides]

Exactly. And I can understand the two perspectives of the behaviour - anger that your club is affected versus the player's perspective of their future.

 

[Teeso]

Interesting who leads the ruck next year if we get both Jacobs and Ceglar. Just cant see us getting anything worthwhile pickwise from Hawks for Patton so Ceglar seems like the best bet.