Bluemour Discussion Thread XVIII - Please Sir, Can We Have More?

[F_therest]

2021 1st would be heavily discounted next year, given a. It's a year down the line. b. Expectations will be of a CFC rise up the ladder.
It may not be perceived to be a particular good pick at all for other clubs. Value heavily discounted.

We can do better and we will do better.

If SOS can do better, then great.

If we end up doing this deal, I'll be fine with it and rapt to add papley and Martin to our line up next year.

Not going to lose any sleep over losing some high draft picks, something we already have plenty of in the form of our kids from the last 4 years.

Papley and Martin are the perfect type of players and age for us. Plus they want to play for us.

 

[Diamond Jim 007]

As we know from history, this is exactly how SOS views trade period - sum of all parts, rather than trades in isolation.

They are welcome to him and his social media influencer company. Things mustn't be going as great as he expected if this is the case though.

ahhhh its a bugs life!

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Martin won’t cost 2 seconds

Even better then

 

[BringBackSimmo]

What’s or something?
Your mum finding your poem stash?

How do you know about them?


Taylor Walker has decided to step down as captain of the Adelaide, its all happening at the Crows.

 

[HBF]

Geelong have been linked with Steven and Higgins. They are keen to top up again.

They're going to lose Kelly which will be a huge loss.

Selwood is 32 in May next year
Harry Taylor is 33, turns 34 in June next year.
Tom Hawkins is 31
GAJ is 35
Dangerflog turns 30 in April next year

 

[HBF]

29 next year.
Would rather go in on Bennell.

Pass on both.

 

[Diamond Jim 007]

How do you know about them?


Taylor Walker has decided to step down as captain of the Adelaide, its all happening at the Crows.

crows are imploding.
Walker the Texan has gone south or been pushed.

 

[BrownDog20]

If people actually think SOS would do that Papley deal without having plans for the picks we would get back from Sydney, they obviously have not been paying attention since SOS took over the list, or are just complaining for the sake of it.

SOS always has a plan, you can never pass judgement on his trades until trade week is over.

 

[JuddgementDay]

I've gone offline for a few hours and now can't catch up
But, I love how active we've been reported to be during this pre-trade period

 

[Brezsa]

Before everyone gets too worked up (too late?) about the supposed 2x 1sts for The Smear + Cameron + 2x 2nds... are we 100% that those firsts mentioned are ours? I know the rumour says "our", but perhaps SOS want's to somehow split 8 down into some later firsts (whether that also involves our 2020 1st and/or players coming in from other clubs, who knows).

This years first pick 8

For WCE First this year (14-18) and WCE first next year (14-18)

WCE then use pick 8 to get Kelly from Geelong

 

[CJMB]

There’s nobody to split with.
Giants are the only team with 2 firsts, and they’ll want higher than our pick. If they trade up, it will be with St Kilda or Adelaide.

Just saying... the rumour could be correct in concept but with a bit of purple monkey dishwasher going on in relation to the actual picks mentioned...

 

[Broadside]

Whitfield a FA next year and surely there's no way GWS can match (and force a trade) with Cogs, Kelly, Cameron, Greene, etc probably on about $4M between them....

good point, unless Gil employs Whitfield as his au pair.

 

[Weiterbot23]

For Papley, two seconds and Cameron is the talk.

Effectively its Papley for two pick downgrades.

I'm not fussed with that.

Especially this year where pick 8 is to pick 25 isn;t that great a drop in quality

 

[Blue__Balls]

This draft isn't going to get you a top 10 player in the competition so what's the worry? Draft picks being way overvalued here.

Can you tell me who we should select with our first round pick and how they will improve our side over Papley?

Irrelevant, FBI, we need to WIN THE TRADE!!!

If there was another, better player who nominated us this season, I'd be all for sending the pick there instead. But people seem to want us to hoard our draft picks like misers in the hope that an amazing deal lands in our laps. Ie. if nobody worth out first rounder wants to come, lets trade it for a future first rounder and see if someone likes us next year. Ridiculous.

With future pick trading, there is always a way to make deals happen. The challenge is in convincing a player to nominate your club. Once that's done, you're 80% of the way there.

Give Sydney two first rounders. Get Papley, Cameron and two second rounder back - for simplicities sake we'll call it the second rounder they have this year, 23, and their second rounder next year, ~22-28.

23 and a minor pick swap gets Martin if he nominates us.

Late picks on Cutler and another small forward (Betts/Butler/Gray). Draft a couple of kids.

We bring in Papley, Martin, Cutler, Cameron and another half-decent small forward.

We shoot up the ladder next year.

We convince a gun free agent like Whitfield or Williams to join and our picks are irrelevant. Or we convince a gun out-of-contract player like De Goey to join and we have 2 second rounders to trade up into the first round, plus our 2021 first (ie. two first rounders...).

 

[KoteX]

You've obviously never seen Gil in action.

If it wasn’t true it’d be funny

 

[Bronze]

How about we just use pick 94 on Darcy Cameron instead?

 

[HARKER]

Harks, if you want quality players, these days you are going to have to pay. Nearly all clubs are smart these days. They don't leave themselves vulnerable to losing quality players on the cheap. Plenty of trash is readily available for steals.

But when you reach a strategic stage and you need some ready quality, you are going to be paying "overs". Every club is in the same boat. We have bulk drafted, we have given the free agents our best shot and unfortunately missed. I am perfectly happy to pay a quality price for a quality player or 2. It's what we've planned and built for.

With Silvagni, i'm confident we won't pay more than we need to, but we will pay what we have to.

Of course...but to a point.

It wasn't so many weeks ago some here were talking about Papley as a second rounder.
I thought a pick #12 at the time was fair and we may even get something back.
Since then we have secured a better pick in the #8 but now we're prepared to dangle another first that takes up Martin also.

I'll put this forward again -

Is Papley, Martin, Cameron and two picks around the 30 mark in this draft, worth two picks around the number 8? Two top 10 picks?
Break down what we should pay for each player and you'll likely find the numbers don't add up.

Losing the 2020 first for any combination of the aforementioned players and picks will haunt us. I don't want to be haunted.

 

[doormat73]

Macca43 said:
That seems quite a big payout on our behalf. Papley is decent player but giving up 2 firsts is huge.

Especially considering in the past Sydney have let players go for relatively cheap, or fairly eg: Tom Mitchell for Pick 14. I believe were getting screwed on this deal.

I'll just park this here.

Neale heads to Brisbane with pick No.30, for the Lions' pick No.6, No.19 and No.55.
In return for Charlie Cameron the Crows got pick No.12.

 

[F_therest]

Big picture - we add Papley and Martin to our side irrespective of picks - it fills two massive holes.

Considering the youth already on our list, if we lose this and next years first, I'm not overly bothered - it's all about the context of how our list overall is improved. At the end of this trading period, we want it to be better than it is now.

At some point in the next few years - we're also going to have players wanting to go .... and that's how we can get back into the draft if necessary.

This.

Even if we don't 'win' the trade according to most people at time of trade, i don't think any of us will really care once they perform in our team and help us make finals next year.

It's not a direct comparison, but i don't think Brisbane are worried about giving up pick 6, 12 & 19 for Cameron & Neale. Keeping in mind both have elevated their games since arriving at Brisbane.

By comparison we'd be giving something like pick 8 & 10 for Papley, Martin, Cameron & a future 2nd rounder...great additions to our talented youngsters.

Let's start worrying about winning finals instead of 'winning' trade week.

Get it done SOS.

 

[Pafloyul]

If people actually think SOS would do that Papley deal without having plans for the picks we would get back from Sydney, they obviously have not been paying attention since SOS took over the list, or are just complaining for the sake of it.

SOS always has a plan, you can never pass judgement on his trades until trade week is over.

Yeah, every single draft pick we've traded into the club, no matter how low, has morphed into magic since SOS has been in charge, it's not the results that matter it's 'the plan'.

 

[Jorge]

Can people stop saying 'Papley isn't worth 2 x 1st rounders', completely eliminating the 2 x 2nd rounders & Cameron part that was touted?

It kind of changes the deal...a lot. You can't just omit the second part of the deal to suit your narrative...

Based on the new draft rules about to come into effect, trading 2 firsts regardless of getting second rounders back could severely impact our list management strategy for the next 5 years.

 

[barass70]

Meeting with Martin went very well..

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Based on the new draft rules about to come into effect, trading 2 firsts regardless of getting second rounders back could severely impact our list management strategy for the next 5 years.

Unless you are Hawthorn.

 

[Red Bull]

I’m a huge Papley fan but using 2 x 1sts is out of the question.

For mine :

Pick 8 and future 1st for Wines and 2nd.

Above 2nd and Casboult for Martin.

1 of our 3rd rounders for Butler.

4th rounder for Cameron.

5th rounder for Betts.

In : Wines Martin Butler Betts Cameron.

Top shelf mature mid
Classy/skilled HF/MID/HB
23yo hard working premiership SF
Classic experienced (ageing) SF
Bridging back up ruckman

This gives us what we need across the board.

 

[chelseacarlton]

How do you know about them?


Taylor Walker has decided to step down as captain of the Adelaide, its all happening at the Crows.

Your mum told me!

Yes, Tex is my bay 13 shits and giggles troll thread, but their posters have eagerly departed since we towelled them up at the G.