List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part II

[Ducky Tie]

Its ok Brad , if the flogs you work for ask for all of our draft picks, jade gresham, and jack billings, we'll get the deal done.
Yeah right.

The Saints need to approach it as , "what is he worth" not "what do we have "
I'd love to play poker against you.

Haha ok

I'm not saying what we should or shouldn't do. Of course I want us to get the best deal we can but I'm not too biased to see that he's going to cost a high price.

 

[bird_man]

Wow lucky the guy at the supermarket didn't know i had a $50 in my pocket when i bought a bottle of milk.

That's how it works unfortunately mate. Hill is contracted, they dont have to trade him.

 

[Gosaints12]

We may as well throw in the Bont as well for steak knives.

If you want


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[Gosaints12]

Are you sure? Maybe we can throw in Luke Beveridge as well with us paying 70% of his contract?

Yes please, but make it 80.


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[st_trav_ofWA]

the question to ask is why and how Bruces name has been put out there in trade .... i would guess running into the off season Bruce was seen as a required player for St Kilda, he wasnt on the trade table at all but at some point that changed ... now putting 2 and 2 together its fair to assume a team (most likely the Bulldogs) came to us asking about Bruce .. considering he wasnt on the table beforehand the offer from the other team (Bulldogs) must have been nice enough for the Saints to sit up and take notice of it ... in those circumstances the trade isnt happening for a second rounder , the other team coming with that offer isnt going to strike St Kildas attention ... so if (and its still a big If on what happens) Bruce gets traded its going to be for something St Kilda feels compelled not to say no to...
the differance from the Hill trade is the fact Bruce doesnt want out the club dont want Bruce out so in order to prise Bruce from St Kilda its going to be in St Kildas favour ... if its just a what we call "fair trade" the saints would just keep Bruce cause they dont need to trade for tradings sake

 

[mattwa]

He stays in RWB then.

Good luck on the weekend... hope you poleaxe those plastic pricks

I think his value is an early 2nd which isnt appealing for you guys but a first is overs. Maybe a combo of picks as our 2nd is moving towards the end of the round at present. We are normally pretty good on the trade table and dont like to go full essendon and offer a Dodo package so im sure both sides will come out ok.

Thanks re the good luck bring on the weekend already its been rubbish without any form of AFL on last weekend haha

 

[Cadillac]

I’m getting bored so let’s wrap this up.

Bruce is contracted you’re the team putting a huge offer to him, the WB will absolutely pay what we want in picks/players or a deal with you won’t get done. You can rant and rave post any number of rubbish deals but it won’t change a thing, you can always walk away.

Personally I think he’d be a fool to knock back the magpies, I know who I’d rather win a flag with.

A “huge offer” yeah let’s just all pretend like what the AFL media have to say is all 100% factual information. I don’t doubt that we have offered him a deal for 3/4 years. But I doubt it’s “huge money”

And the Bulldogs will decide if they want to pay what your club wants. Not what some random on Bigfooty behind his phone wants.

Haha and good luck to you if you’d rather play for Buckley lol. Because Beveridge has proven he knows how to win grand finals. I’m sure Bruce will love the opportunity to play in a side competing for a flag.

 

[Yawkey way]

Let's be clear... it is not the club making these noises. It is media speculation, no doubt encouraged by player managers and driven as truth by supporters on social medai.

The fact is that Bruceyhas a year left on his deal.

So it's pretty reasonable to think that his manager instigates talks with the Dogs in order to put pressure on StK to extend him now. The club either does that or realised this may be an opportunity to take advantage of. A month out from trade week (and probably a day out from the new coach being announced) why the rush to do anything?

So before you throw around accusations like 'sham', maybe look at how and why these rumours start.

All that could well be true, our VP liking posts isn’t a good look though.

I’ve also read that players have had their meetings so once that happens if players are on the table then managers are out and about looking for possible landing spots.

Who did the end of year reviews and is there a requirement for them to be done within a certain time of the last round. If there isn’t why where they done during our coaching interviews.

 

[The Cavalry]

pies don't have a first this year (went in Beams trade) FYI

Potentially 2020 1st then? could be banked for Bing?

 

[Gosaints12]

I think there's plenty of doubt tbh. Could involve our 2nd + 3rd if Saints plan on on-trading anyway (since that's worth more than our 1st alone, your Pick 5 will be gone for Hill, and you may need other picks to trade for the other targets). Could also involve a player (Wallis, McLean, Gowers, Williams all examples of players who may seek more guaranteed time) plus whatever picks necessary. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it actually did involve our 1st, unless we were getting something significant on the way back.

Our 1st + 3rd for Bruce and a future 2nd. Something like that I could see happening, but I think it's more likely to be one of the scenarios above

If guys wanted to keep your first and give us, McClean, 28 and 42 for Bruce and 55 then we could talk.

 

[gringo2011]

I think there's plenty of doubt tbh. Could involve our 2nd + 3rd if Saints plan on on-trading anyway (since that's worth more than our 1st alone, your Pick 5 will be gone for Hill, and you may need other picks to trade for the other targets). Could also involve a player (Wallis, McLean, Gowers, Williams all examples of players who may seek more guaranteed time) plus whatever picks necessary. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it actually did involve our 1st, unless we were getting something significant on the way back.

Our 1st + 3rd for Bruce and a future 2nd. Something like that I could see happening, but I think it's more likely to be one of the scenarios above

The club will be smashed by Saints fans if they do that. Most don't want Bruce gone so they will probably be very careful to not piss off fans. I know people who are threatening to cancel memberships already and if they sell him for anything less than a straight first they will create carnage. You aren't getting him cheap if at all.

 

[Gosaints12]

Same mistake twice? Like winning a flag twice?

But Boyd didn't win you a flag. He helped win a flag.

Boyd won them that flag. If he wasn’t there Sydney would have won.


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[Gosaints12]

Boyd is definitely not the trade you want to be comparing with. He was considered a generational talent, was the Pick 1 the year prior, and looked to have another 12+ years of footy ahead of him.

A more comparable trade would be when the Dogs got Crameri. He was averaging slightly more goals per game, played as a slightly shorter key forward (190cm), was a couple years younger at time of trade (25 vs 27). The trade ended up being for Pick 22 (which became 26 after compensation picks).

If we arbitrarily assume Bruce is worth even a bit more, then we can assume an early 2nd / late 1st in a straight swap, or even something like our 2nd + 3rd. That could actually end up being a realistic scenario, where Pick 30 + Pick 41 is worth more in terms of draft points than Pick 18. Assuming the Saints planned on splitting a 1st they receive so they can on-trade, this is where they'd end up anyway. That Pick 30 and 41 could net the Saints Zak Jones (30) and Todd Goldstein (41) in trades (based on who you guys have already been linked with). Goldstein is UFA so no trade cost. Leaves Saints with a 3rd depending on who else they've been linked with. Hugh Greenwood is a possibility

I need an outside opinion what’s Hill worth? I feel Freo are trying to bend us over.


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[lewdogs]

If the Dogs have really made our contracted, number one key forward an "offer he can't refuse", then we will either get their first round pick or the trade does not happen.

We hold all the cards. This isn't a trade that needs to favour both clubs, this is the dogs needing to pay us for what they want.

Exactly. The reason we'd trade him would be to get the first as currency for other trades. There's no way we'd let him go for a second or some fringe player, would make no sense.

 

[Yawkey way]

A “huge offer” yeah let’s just all pretend like what the AFL media have to say is all 100% factual information. I don’t doubt that we have offered him a deal for 3/4 years. But I doubt it’s “huge money”

And the Bulldogs will decide if they want to pay what your club wants. Not what some random on Bigfooty behind his phone wants.

Haha and good luck to you if you’d rather play for Buckley lol. Because Beveridge has proven he knows how to win grand finals. I’m sure Bruce will love the opportunity to play in a side competing for a flag.

Did you stamp your foot when you posted this, jog on clown.

 

[Ads734]

I don't buy into the talk of it not being a strong draft. There is a clear top 2, and there is the obvious omission of serious quality in the KP department - but it's still quite a good draft for mids and flankers.

Most of us want to throw away pick 5 like its useless but it's still pick 5 which would net us the next Bont (Kemp).

I don't buy it. It's said to be weaker due to no talls but we aren't in the market for a first round tall.

I also remember the media saying that 2015 draft was going to be the worst of all time.

Oliver Hopper Gresham Hipwood Curnow, Dunkely, Mckay, Himmelberg, Fiorini, Burton, Doedee, Tucker etc etc the reality is their is value but we have to be open minded like we were last year going after mature agers which seemed to work relatively well.

 

[gringo2011]

The problem is that Hill is worth more than Bruce, so I doubt it's that simple. Whatever you get for Bruce won't be enough to satisfy Fremantle in a Hill trade, so something else needs to be added in, or else you guys will have to pay your Pick 5, and keep whatever you received for Bruce

I think it would be 14 and Acres or something like that.

 

[gringo2011]

I can’t be bothered digging but I would be very interested in seeing what the last 10 player trades are for a top 5 pick.

I know there was Lachie Weller, which is a disgusting deal in hindsight and commented onnaccordingly this week.

There was the “Generational” Tom Boyd and Superstar All Australian 2 x BnF winner Ryan Griffin mega deal.

Can’t think of many more recently.

I hope we don't do pick 6 and next years first for Bing and he turns into Boyd. I'm hearing we are still hoping to get him.

 

[Mikka84]

Boyd won them that flag. If he wasn’t there Sydney would have won.


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How do you know this? Its a guess.. Doggies could have won by 10 goals if he didn't play. No one knows.

He didn't win them the flag, he helped them win the grand final game.

 

[Mikka84]

I hope we don't do pick 6 and next years first for Bing and he turns into Boyd. I'm hearing we are still hoping to get him.

I hope we don't go to the draft with pick 6 and it turns out to be Jono O'Rourke or Paddy's bad luck or Jack Trengove. There a million ways to guess and become pessimistic. But in this case of Benjamin King, we have evidence. King averaged 2 goals a game in his last 6 games of the year. As a first year, undersized KPP, with possibly the worst team thats been put on a park for a long time.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

All that could well be true, our VP liking posts isn’t a good look though.

I’ve also read that players have had their meetings so once that happens if players are on the table then managers are out and about looking for possible landing spots.

Who did the end of year reviews and is there a requirement for them to be done within a certain time of the last round. If there isn’t why where they done during our coaching interviews.

What does the VP liking a post about Carlisle have to do with Bruce?

We're not privvy to what happens in exit meetings but I'm assuming that its more about what they want the player to work on over the summer... not so much 'you're on the table' type stuff. My understanding is that they do them ASAP so the clock for their set period of annual leave starts ticking immediately. Hence they're usually on the Tuesday and Wednesday after the last game. We couldnt put them off until the coach was confirmed because players go away (some come back just for the B&F before heading off again).

Discussions with managers and other clubs go on all year and then obviously ramp up during the month leading up to trade week.

The exit meetings do include post season medicals, etc so I'd assume that they were conducted by the interim coach, footy dept manager and medical staff.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I need an outside opinion what’s Hill worth? I feel Freo are trying to bend us over.


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I think Pick 5 is in the "overs" territory. He is an outstanding player, but more worth around the Pick 8-10 mark in my opinion. I think given his contract situation, and considering that his contract was reportedly front loaded with the most lucrative years already paid, I can definitely see Freo trying to bend you over.

I just don't see a way that the trade gets done without involving your first pick unfortunately, although I suppose this is the best year for it given it's a relatively weak draft. Maybe if you guys can get away with something like:

Pick 5 + Acres <-> Hill + Pick 24

This is assuming Acres' trade value has tanked a bit, so you're essentially paying overs for Hill, but Freo are paying overs for Acres

 

[Virgin Dog]

If guys wanted to keep your first and give us, McClean, 28 and 42 for Bruce and 55 then we could talk.

That is absolutely horrendous overs. That, or we're implying that McLean is close to worthless. Take out the Pick 28 and you might be closer to the mark, and even then I wouldn't be happy and would consider it a loss for us

 

[Cadillac]

Did you stamp your foot when you posted this, jog on clown.

I’ll leave it with you to decide mate. As a dogs fan I’ve got better things to discuss and think about in September than trade hypotheticals. Enjoy the off season.

 

[OxSaint]

[

I think it's slight overs, and wouldn't happen unless we got absolutely desperate (i.e. didn't pick up any talls and it gets to the last day of the trade period). Among our supporter base, I've found most seem to agree that he's worth anywhere around Pick 17-25. Depending on where we finish and what the Saints other trade targets are, I could see a trade of our 2nd and one of our 3rds (Pick 30 + Pick 41). On draft points, this is roughly Pick 17, but it's split between two picks which allows for on-trading for the Saints other targets. This allows the Saints to turn Bruce into something like Zak Jones + Hugh Greenwood, while allowing the Dogs to retain their 1st (which will most likely be gone for Jack Martin if he does choose us). The issue with us involving our 1st is that we'd likely want something coming back, but Saints don't have a 2nd or 3rd

Jack Martin worth a 1st but Bruce isn’t? The same Jack Martin that can’t get a start at the worst club in the Comp and is out of contract. Not sure you have as much of an idea as you seem to think.