Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Wojcinski]

Players play forever these days. Properly managed they can all play in to their 30s.

Ruckmen generally take to mid 20s to come good. KPF and KPD early to mid 20s.

Clubs dont need quality youth. They need quality players.

I don't disagree, but I think the concern, whether correct or not is that Hawthorn doesn't have the quality coming through. Top up players can work well, very well in some cases but even just looking at the 3peat core they were all drafted and came up through the "ranks" together.

Geelong of 07-11 was the same.

I think the jury is still out as to whether teams can "buy" a flag via trades and FA's or not. That includes Geelong

 

[HairyO]

We have plenty of quality. And Im sure we will handle Rough, Birchall and Burgoyne moving on.

But if Burgoyne stays then equally we will do jist fine with Methusela playing.

 

[stfan]

If Hawthorn can get Carlisle via a trade then he’s exactly the defender they need. In 2019 the Hawks ranked 3rd in points conceded and 1st in contested marks. Carlisle would free up Sicily who could become Gibson MKII.

Looks like Hawks are the KOD. As soon as this forum starts talking up a player as going to them, said player ends up announcing he is staying.

Yesterday forumites were claiming he was touring the HFC. Today the statements are all that he is staying.

 

[blaisee]

Henderson may have been B grade when we got him but defiatley A grade now.

You can define a grader anyway you like .

Do you reckon Henderson will be a grade footballer playing a grade football when you play in your next flag ?

I don’t

 

[WWSD]

Looks like Hawks are the KOD. As soon as this forum starts talking up a player as going to them, said player ends up announcing he is staying.

Yesterday forumites were claiming he was touring the HFC. Today the statements are all that he is staying.

Should Hawthorn miss out on trading for an established key defender via trade this year or recruit one or two as “delisted free agents” then worst case scenario is using pick 11 on the best available key defender in this years draft.

 

[hk89]

I'm shocked to be sitting here. Had post removed for trolling Essendon in a 288 page troll thread started by an Essendon fan.

Ok, so on a somewhat less trolling note, Essendon's loss last night is certainly a warning shot across Hawthorn's bow. They've gone with a bunch of top ups to try to move their list into top 4 contention, which isn't unlike what Hawthorn are currently in the process of trying to achieve. It is certainly possible we'll end up doing the same finals one year, missing out the next flip/flop for the immediate future, we've certainly done so since 2015, being in, out, in out since then. Like Essendon we are also winless in finals over that period, so a Hawthorn fan watching Essendon over the last few years would certainly have cause for concern.

On the flip side, Hawthorn have made top 4 in those two finals campaigns, instead of sneaking into the 8. We've also seemed a bit more targeted on who we get instead of random shots at players when they come available instead of addressing glaring flaws (big bodied inside mids Dodoro?). Mitchell and JOM to replace Mitchell and Lewis. Wingard for Rioli, Scrimshaw for Birchall. Scully because we got him for a 4th rounder, and also helps replace Hill. We've probably also been able to layer our imports on a list that already a bit more underlying quality than what Essendon have, so I'm still somewhat optimistic that we can do better than what Essendon have managed to do, despite some surface level similarities between the paths we've been following.

 

[hk89]

You can define a grader anyway you like .

Do you reckon Henderson will be a grade footballer playing a grade football when you play in your next flag ?

I don’t

But that's because based on your own experience, you'd probably be expecting our next flag to be coming along 37 years after the last one. Henderson will be on the verge of qualifying for the old age pension by then, so I can see where you are coming from.

 

[TallyHawk]

Would you like an autograph?

I get DMs from Hawthorn supporters all the time saying that I am the reason they log into BigFooty every day. And now I know why: I have a fan club.

I was taking the piss Jabb


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[HairyO]

Looks like Hawks are the KOD. As soon as this forum starts talking up a player as going to them, said player ends up announcing he is staying.

Yesterday forumites were claiming he was touring the HFC. Today the statements are all that he is staying.

Actually, a week ago people were saying that his back is no good and Hawthorn had said no thanks.

 

[WWSD]

Why does it matter when they continue to entice big free agents like Coniglio??.....oh wait

You can’t win them all.

Welcome to Hawthorn Harley Bennell.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Looks like Hawks are the KOD. As soon as this forum starts talking up a player as going to them, said player ends up announcing he is staying.

Yesterday forumites were claiming he was touring the HFC. Today the statements are all that he is staying.

Hope you're right mate.

 

[parsons nose]

Why does it matter when they continue to entice big free agents like Coniglio??.....oh wait

..........yes spewing we missed out on big free agent Hogan and snared small free agent Mitchell. Can’t win ‘em all, eh?

 

[stfan]

Actually, a week ago people were saying that his back is no good and Hawthorn had said no thanks.

LOL. Where these the same people who claimed he was touring the HFC yesterday?

So a guy who just played 10 games in a row after coming back is no good?

Amazing how players become bad as soon as they say no to Hawks. Time to retire the he is coming to Hawks cause we have Clarko line.

Carlisle's manager was just trying to enhance contract negotiations. Walking Keath through the club (in our case Keath actually arrived and did a medical) called the manager's bluff.

 

[TallyHawk]

LOL. Where these the same people who claimed he was touring the HFC yesterday?

So a guy who just played 10 games in a row after coming back is no good?

Amazing how players become bad as soon as they say no to Hawks. Time to retire the he is coming to Hawks cause we have Clarko line.

Carlisle's manager was just trying to enhance contract negotiations. Walking Keath through the club (in our case Keath actually arrived and did a medical) called the manager's bluff.

Delusional.


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[HairyO]

LOL. Where these the same people who claimed he was touring the HFC yesterday?

So a guy who just played 10 games in a row after coming back is no good?

Amazing how players become bad as soon as they say no to Hawks. Time to retire the he is coming to Hawks cause we have Clarko line.

Carlisle's manager was just trying to enhance contract negotiations. Walking Keath through the club (in our case Keath actually arrived and did a medical) called the manager's bluff.

No. People were saying he was no good *before* he decided to stay with you.

Think it through.

 

[stfan]

No. People were saying he was no good *before* he decided to stay with you.

Think it through.

LOL..Yes just like the ones who said he was at the HFC yesterday. Think it though.

 

[HairyO]

LOL..Yes just like the ones who said he was at the HFC yesterday. Think it though.

Maybe he was at Hawthorn yesterday because they were telling him the bad news.

Or maybe you are making it up. Or maybe you are reading stuff from trolls. Or maybe who knows what, but the people who are consistently accurate said a while ago that he is no good because his back is stuffed and Hawthorn werent interested.

But you keep hanging on to the dream that you are getting value out of a guy who cost you pick 5, missed a year because of doping, and has been injured on and off since and still has a year to go on his contract before you can get rid of him.

 

[TallyHawk]

LOL..Yes just like the ones who said he was at the HFC yesterday. Think it though.

It's called doing due diligence, I suspect the back issue was looked at. Degenerative disc issues are a prick. It looks like you will have to off load Bruce to make room for Hilly.


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[Pessimistic]

We won a flag in 16...

Our list is better than yours. Put a poll up on the main page between hawks and the dogs hell even carlton and see who neutrals would choose going forward. Guarantee it wouldn't be the hawks. You arent the same team without the past champions of the club

A great subject for a thread. Does a bigfooty poll result have any relationship to real life.

 

[Pessimistic]

I'm shocked to be sitting here. Had post removed for trolling Essendon in a 288 page troll thread started by an Essendon fan.

Ok, so on a somewhat less trolling note, Essendon's loss last night is certainly a warning shot across Hawthorn's bow. They've gone with a bunch of top ups to try to move their list into top 4 contention, which isn't unlike what Hawthorn are currently in the process of trying to achieve. It is certainly possible we'll end up doing the same finals one year, missing out the next flip/flop for the immediate future, we've certainly done so since 2015, being in, out, in out since then. Like Essendon we are also winless in finals over that period, so a Hawthorn fan watching Essendon over the last few years would certainly have cause for concern.

On the flip side, Hawthorn have made top 4 in those two finals campaigns, instead of sneaking into the 8. We've also seemed a bit more targeted on who we get instead of random shots at players when they come available instead of addressing glaring flaws (big bodied inside mids Dodoro?). Mitchell and JOM to replace Mitchell and Lewis. Wingard for Rioli, Scrimshaw for Birchall. Scully because we got him for a 4th rounder, and also helps replace Hill. We've probably also been able to layer our imports on a list that already a bit more underlying quality than what Essendon have, so I'm still somewhat optimistic that we can do better than what Essendon have managed to do, despite some surface level similarities between the paths we've been following.

Geelongs poor showing is even more of a worry, but they did have quite a few finals newbies

Missing shiel was fortiutous

 

[Pessimistic]

The strategy is similar to geelong, but we can also learn from their mistakes.
In some ways theyve had a couple of waves of rebuild since 2011-13 when they started to replace their dynasty players. A few have been given extended runs of games but are no longer in the picture

 

[stfan]

. It looks like you will have to off load Bruce to make room for Hilly.

LOL you clearly have no idea.


Clearly this is just another fantasy trade balloon that has been pricked. There are way too many Hawk fans who populate this thread, and BigFooty in general, who when any trade target is mentioned that they automatically take the stance that he will want to walk to the Hawks for well unders.

There was no due diligence on Carlisle. The visit never happened. Carlisle to Hawks was just part of the many phantom deals that many Hawk fans have imagined this year. The HFC may well have enquired though as all clues are out for what they can get, and rightly so. If the Hawks made a lowball offer on Carlisle, then it would just have been rejected. The Saints also do not have a salary cap problem where we need to offload salary. Indeed the problem the club has is spending the required minimum TPP and this is why the club can pay overs to Hill.

Carlisle was flagged as a possible trade if a club was willing to pay enough trade wise. The Saints have flagged that many players are available this year IF the deal is right as the Club want to re-balance the list. That is IF. The Club is open to offers, but not in gifting away players.

Hawk Fans were daydreaming about Carlisle joining for a pick in the 50's. Cogs joining for free (would always have had to have been a trade if he had of nominated the Hawks ) etc etc. There is this huge denial fantasy going on where we constantly see posts of good players joining the Hawks this trade period for bugga all just to play under Clarko. It is not happening.


Dogs want Bruce (Bevo must see a bullocking CHF as their missing link) and if the trade price is right they will gain him. Dogs are evidently reported to be willing to pay decent coin to Bruce, and a large trade price for Bruce.

Saints already have heaps of salary cap space to pay Hill, and most likely use of pick 5 as part of the trade will be used to acquire him. If Bruce goes his trade value gained will used be for a different player.

I am not naive enough to think that all the players linked to the Saints will join as a large part of it is just the Saints, player mangers and the other clubs testing values and deals. Often this is just to help the player manager to jack up the salary of the player at his current club. Steven, for obvious reasons, is the only St Kilda player that may go for unders, though Saints may pay part of his salary to increase the Cats offer. Most will go for what they are worth. Bruce may go for a bit overs as Dogs are keen.

 

[stfan]

But you keep hanging on to the dream that you are getting value out

I actually don't think he will be traded.

of a guy who cost you pick 5,

Why do Hawks fans universally seem clueless when it comes to actually knowing what any trade deal was?

Gresham says hi by the way.

 

[hk89]

LOL you clearly have no idea.

Hawk Fans were daydreaming about Carlisle joining...

If you think that was true, then it is clearly you who have no idea. Read our trading board. It wasn't daydreaming, it was a freakin nightmare. Very few thought chasing Carlisle after saints started shopping around the idea he was tradable was a good idea. Convicted drug cheat. Stupid enough to get caught doing lines (yes, all clubs have recreational drug users, but most of them are smart enough to keep it out of public view). Good player when fit, but question marks about his body now.

 

[TylerDurden]

If you think that was true, then it is clearly you who have no idea. Read our trading board. It wasn't daydreaming, it was a freakin nightmare. Very few thought chasing Carlisle after saints started shopping around the idea he was tradable was a good idea. Convicted drug cheat. Stupid enough to get caught doing lines (yes, all clubs have recreational drug uses, but most of them are smart enough to keep it out of public view). Good player when fit, but question marks about his body now.

His back is stuffed.