Bluemour Melting Pot XIX - Give Me Ed Baby - Return of the Prodigal Son

[BigFrizz36]

Difficult question to answer but for me it's when you've passed a certain point of likelihood that you're going to see significant improvement from that player. I think for starters you need to take into account:

-Age/mental maturity
-Physical maturity
-Raw talent level
-Experience at AFL level
-Work ethic / attitude and ability to improve on deficiencies.
-Injury proneness
-Flexibility/Ability to play multiple positions

Obviously that's complicated and involves a range of different factors which vary per player, but to use Dow as an example I'd say it's giving him a clear 2-3 years to develop his body and iron out some of his clear deficiencies.

If in 2-3 years we're still seeing the same Dow we see now then my opinion on him would have changed - but I think that's unlikely to happen.

Luke shuey was nominated for the rising star award in his third year as he hadn't played 11 games in his first 2 years (or whatever the qualification is) as he was slight and needed time for his body to catch up to his ability. Sound familiar?

 

[SOSage Mcgovern]

Would be very nice if we could indeed get both. There is also another thing here as well, because If we keep missing on players because SOS is playing scrooge then other future targets might not find the idea of coming to Carlton so appealing..........I know it should not just be about $$$ but you have to show these targets that you really want them. Also why has SOS jumped off Ellis when it seemed that he was coming to us? I don`t rate Ellis that much actually but why lose another player that you were originally after............

I think the timing is key here, it was reported the day after cogs re-signed that we cooled on Ellis, plan must have changed to try and get an elite outside mid and use our cogs fund for them. No point getting Ellis in that case, he would just be expensive surplus

 

[blue_trinity]

H

He started his career forward and has also played back/mid.

I'd rather see jack Martin in our forward line over Lang, deluca, Kennedy etc.

He is a quality player wherever he plays. I'd be disappointed if we didn't stretch a little with the contract for him.

he was drafted a fwd/mid, and is more than capable in the position. And yes, has played as a back/mid, looks more natural here to me.

If we end up with Martin and Papley, I’d prefer to see Martin of a hbf rotating on a wing.

I’d also be disappointed if we don’t stretch a little.

 

[Coona Blues]

I personally think you're wrong about Dow. I think it will be clear to you in a couple of years.

If we did a straight swap for Dow, IMO it would be in Sydneys favour!

I am highly critical of some of Dow's work, but at no stage have doubted what he can/will ultimately bring, His ceiling is as high as any player in our team.
I firmly believe that Dow both prospered and was the most disadvantaged by the blind faith and stubborn perseverance Bolts had in the kids at the coalface. It would be exceptionally hard for a youngster to understand the body of work, and the two way efforts required to be a gun player at the highest level when he is an automatic selection week after week, being preferred to some match hardened stars of the game in the engine room.

I am really hoping someone can get through to the kid and rid any thoughts of entitlement, making him a gun next season and beyond, rather than waiting six seasons for him to catch up to his potential, or heaven forbid, not reach it.

 

[mrkyuss]

I am highly critical of some of Dow's work, but at no stage have doubted what he can/will ultimately bring, His ceiling is as high as any player in our team.
I firmly believe that Dow both prospered and was the most disadvantaged by the blind faith and stubborn perseverance Bolts had in the kids at the coalface. It would be exceptionally hard for a youngster to understand the body of work, and the two way efforts required to be a gun player at the highest level when he is an automatic selection week after week, being preferred to some match hardened stars of the game in the engine room.

I am really hoping someone can get through to the kid and rid any thoughts of entitlement, making him a gun next season and beyond, rather than waiting six seasons for him to catch up to his potential, or heaven forbid, not reach it.

Even better, how about someone teach him how to kick? Regardless of upside, I would still expect a pick 3 to be more fundamentally sound.

 

[VainGlorious]

Yeah agree, which is why I was so hopeful that Pickett would make it.

Not sure LOB is that fast either and Polson would bounce the ball over him head.

Disagree re LOB. I think he’s pretty fast

Can’t remember where I saw the stats exactly (Telstra tracker perhaps)

Top speed was around 34-35kmh

Pretty fast

 

[Coona Blues]

Even better, how about someone teach him how to kick? Regardless of upside, I would still expect a pick 3 to be more fundamentally sound.

There is that, but has had some exceptional kicks as well. Thinking the "flaws" are more psychological than technique.

 

[VainGlorious]

How much is the difference i wonder...

Let's be honest the Bulldogs' future looks bright, playing finals with a young core of players and an attractive brand of footy...plus offering more money. It's an enticing offer and certainly wouldn't begrudge him for taking it.

Wonder why he prefers us anyway.

It’s simple really

A thing of true beauty

 

[tattooedJESUS]

Hopefully Martin picks us. Who wouldn’t want to play for big Melbourne team with an amazing history and exciting future coming.

Or just go to the most irrelevant team in the afl for money

 

[bluebrew]

He has been getting that since 2014, must have been a long term plan.

Soon every single player at GWS will be an ambassador

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I always find this term most interesting. How much time is deemed to be sufficient in evaluating and making a decision on a player? Just a general question, not at all based on Dow and his two seasons.

What I love is how we have such strong opinions on kids before they are drafted then are so hesitant to change them after a year in the AFL system even though we have seen ten times more of them then we had pre draft.

 

[zeggie]

Nobody should be giving kids set timeframes ie. 2 years, 3 years to "prove" themselves. It's highly subjective and based on a many different factors.

Some kids will develop slower than others. Some will peak earlier. Each individual needs to be assessed individually. If they are progressing and developing then time doesn't really come into it.

Don't forget this is also a mental and attitude game. You can have the speed and the skills, but if you have the wrong attitude and don't commit to training then regardless you won't make it. Key example: Troy Menzel.

 

[VainGlorious]

Hopefully Martin picks us. Who wouldn’t want to play for big Melbourne team with an amazing history and exciting future coming.

Or just go to the most irrelevant team in the afl for money

I thought he was leaving the most irrelevant team in the AFL...

 

[tattooedJESUS]

I thought he was leaving the most irrelevant team in the AFL...

Dogs have been around for a long long time and are the definition of a middle of the pack side

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Dogs have been around for a long long time and are the definition of a middle of the pack side

They are a quality young team with money to burn, they will be playing finals for the foreseeable future.

 

[tattooedJESUS]

They are a quality young team with money to burn, they will be playing finals for the foreseeable future.

Don’t get me wrong I know they have some exciting players that are genuine stars and play a good brand when it’s on their terms, but when plan a gets shut down they roll over and play dead.

For some reason I have never liked the dogs lol

 

[Tommy Alvin]

Can someone please make up a plausible trade rumour so we can get back on track with the hypotheticals?

TA

 

[Manhattanite]

Don’t get me wrong I know they have some exciting players that are genuine stars and play a good brand when it’s on their terms, but when plan a gets shut down they roll over and play dead.

For some reason I have never liked the dogs lol

You sound like a cat person

But seriously our main competition the next five years will come from the Doggies, Lions and Swans. The three of them and the Blues have the most talent coming through.


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[VainGlorious]

Dogs have been around for a long long time and are the definition of a middle of the pack side

I understand what you are saying, but

They’ve won a flag recently.

Have one of the most exciting young midfield groups in Bont, Dunk, Macrae and English

Naughton is

But I do hear ya

 

[spry]

Can someone please make up a plausible trade rumour so we can get back on track with the hypotheticals?

TA

Has anyone ever told you that your initials also work as a convenient sign off/thankyou. Has a good effect [emoji1303] I have a mate who’s initials are NB, talented bastard, doesn’t need to do much for people to take note.

Goddamit we need a rumour.


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[footyfan1978]

Can someone please make up a plausible trade rumour so we can get back on track with the hypotheticals?

TA

Exactly, been so pathetic for most of week ferris is no longer behind.
Not good enough, everyone.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Hopefully Martin picks us. Who wouldn’t want to play for big Melbourne team with an amazing history and exciting future coming.

Or just go to the most irrelevant team in the afl for money

Are north in the race for Martin too?

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Can someone please make up a plausible trade rumour so we can get back on track with the hypotheticals?

TA

Hawks coming hard for Charlie Curnow. AFL considering allowing them to pay him an Ambassadorial Role to assist with getting them their man. We are refusing to play, but Gil has overridden our stance and said a second-rounder should do the job.

Walsh to Geelong in a complicated three-way trade with West Coast. Walsh to Geelong, Tim Kelly to West Coast, Fraser McInnes to Carlton. Walsh and Carlton objected but overruled by Gil. Carlton forced to sit out first two rounds of 2020 draft for questioning the authority of the AFL.

 

[JeSOS]

Rumour has it that part of the big sell to prospective players is a $70+million redevelopment of the facilities at IKON park.


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[PDP_Shazza]

I am highly critical of some of Dow's work, but at no stage have doubted what he can/will ultimately bring, His ceiling is as high as any player in our team.
I firmly believe that Dow both prospered and was the most disadvantaged by the blind faith and stubborn perseverance Bolts had in the kids at the coalface. It would be exceptionally hard for a youngster to understand the body of work, and the two way efforts required to be a gun player at the highest level when he is an automatic selection week after week, being preferred to some match hardened stars of the game in the engine room.

I am really hoping someone can get through to the kid and rid any thoughts of entitlement, making him a gun next season and beyond, rather than waiting six seasons for him to catch up to his potential, or heaven forbid, not reach it.

Yes, lots of variables aren't there? I don't particularly agree with you about his entitlement, i think it's the opposite, but I could be wrong, I often am!

Dow was drafted as an offensive midfielder who created plays, could burst from stoppages, be brave and make things happen. We've seen some of this from him, amazing goal against gold coast last year and just at the arse end of this year we've seen him bauk, sell candy and try to make things happen with his obvious talent. I don't think our previous environment of structure and over complication was good for him. Players like him are instinctual. I personally think he was effected the most by that system.

This is what I want from Dow.I want him to work extra hard in the off season, fitness and strength and I want him to demand his position in the midfield, because he is a midfielder and if he can bring his U18 strengths to the AFL, look out.