Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Matty411]

If we give up Pick 8 for Papley, SOS needs to be sacked.

Apologies if this comes across as playing the man, but you've got no idea, dj. If we can snag Papley for Pick 8 and not compromise our other first (2020), then SOS should be commended.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Value in terms of draft picks is a weird beast.

Draft picks are partially-fungible as in the asset is tradeable, but it becomes fixed into a player post draft, who is not tradeable without consent.

Furthermore the value is only based on who could be selected or if you have an academy selection on points value. BUT that points value is in no way indicative of actual value. For example, pick 13 in one year is P. Cripps, another year it's Matthew Kennedy. Both players, but of different quality.

So, basically Papley is worth pick 8, if there is no one we would take with that pick who we think is better.

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[thebluelagoon]

So there's confusion down at ikon Park?

This can't be the case if we have the hierarchy in place and if we don't.....then it's Liddle and the board that have to answer 'Why not?'
Can't say I was ever a fan of the splitting of List Manager roles, no matter how they're supposedly set up, as there can realistically be only one List Manager and if that's still SOS, Agresta may be SOS's right-hand man and not deserving of the List Managers title.

We know Teague wants his small forwards and SOS is trying to get them to him, but Teague can't weigh in and demand a player he shares a friendship with to get in the way of practical measures. (If indeed Teague is putting his best case forward for Betts)

It may not get messy but I can see how it could and if it does, it will again be thanks to our lack of control and administration.

if you believe everything you hear in the media Teague is throwing his weight around like he is the games record holder for coaching in the history of the AFL/VFL! If coaches stuck to frickin' coaching Teague would need to be demanding Betts be traded in! grrrrr

 

[true blue19]

Rumor we are interested in Jacobs.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Rumor we are interested in Jacobs.

Is it a rumour if it's all over the news?

 

[true blue19]

Apologies if this comes across as playing the man, but you've got no idea, dj. If we can snag Papley for Pick 8 and not compromise our other first (2020), then SOS should be commended.

I have no problem using pick 8 for Papley but we would need something back like pick 23 at least

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

OK , Can i ask which player in the draft you will take with a pick 8-10 ?

You need to know the quality of the player you will get with that pick compared to the player you could trade for in Papley and dont you think you have enough kids

Apologies - was a joke. People who think that 8 is over paying for Papley are the same people who would be overjoyed if we drafted a player who may one day become Papley.

 

[Heres Waite]

If we give up Pick 8 for Papley, SOS needs to be sacked.

You always think SOS should be sacked though!

Nothing wrong with Papley for pick 8.

 

[Dravid's in]

Probably would have also sacked the Lions list manager for giving away #12 for Charlie Cameron despite kicking 87 goals, compared to Papleys 120, in his previous 4 seasons before being traded.

 

[rog1995]

We need to seriously bolster our midfield. Ed and Murphy aren't getting any younger and Crippa needs help with some mature midfielders. Needs to be a priority before worrying about giving up first rounders for flankers.

 

[rog1995]

Probably would have also sacked the Lions list manager for giving away #12 for Charlie Cameron despite kicking 87 goals, compared to Papleys 120, in his previous 4 seasons before being traded.

Lions got Lyons and Neale to bolster their midfield. Charlie was the icing.

 

[Dravid's in]

Lions got Lyons and Neale to bolster their midfield. Charlie was the icing.

Cameron was 2017 trade period
Lyons and Neale 2018.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

WTF are you talking about? Pick 8 is far too valuable to trade and must be taken to the draft. We are in desperate need of a small forward who can apply defensive pressure and run through the midfield.

Mick Gibbons sends his regards

 

[rog1995]

Cameron was 2017 trade period
Lyons and Neale 2018.

MCcarthy was recruited for next to nothing. Not sure why we're so keen on chasing Papley. A contracted player that will require lots to get him across.

 

[rog1995]

You always think SOS should be sacked though!

Nothing wrong with Papley for pick 8.

SOS doesn't have the best record recruiting mature players. Lots of wasted trades and we can't afford to do this again.

 

[DangerousD]

Very different circumstances.

At GWS SOS had a wealth of high draft picks, and therefore the luxury of being able to take significant risks at the draft knowing that if a player didn't pan out quickly they could be traded away before their value dropped too far.

2011:
Pick 1: Patton (miss) - injuries
Pick 2: Coniglio (hit)
Pick 3: Dom Tyson (miss)
Pick 4: Hoskin-Elliot (miss) - miss? handy player
Pick 5: Buntine (miss) - miss? handy player
Pick 7: Haynes (hit)
Pick 9: Tomlinson (hit)
Pick 10: Sumner (miss)
Pick 11: Greene (hit)
Pick 13: Taylor Adams (hit)
Pick 14: Devon Smith (hit)

6 hits
5 misses

Very bad ratio of hits and misses. (I've got it as 2 misses and a bit of bad luck with Patton - 8.5 from 11 is a good strike rate)

2012:
Pick 1: Whitfield (hit)
Pick 2: O'Rouke (miss) - injuries
Pick 3: Plowman (miss) - miss? handy player
Pick 12: Jaksch (miss)
Pick 14: Aidan Corr (miss) miss? handy player, injury affected

1 hit
4 misses

Shocking performance from SOS in for the 2012 1st round draft picks. (2 misses, 2 good role players, 1 star - 3 from 5 is pretty good - 2012 was also a diabolical draft pool)

2013
Pick 1: Tom Boyd (miss) - harsh, won the Dogs a flag, ruined by mental health issues
Pick 2: Kelly (hit)
Pick 14: McCarthy (miss) - miss? handy player

(No major misses here, two players that jumped ship, but he also fleeced Melbourne to the tune of Josh Kelly)

2014
Pick 4: Pickett (miss) - injuries
Pick 6: Marchbank (miss) - miss? handy player, injury affected
Pick 7: Ahern (miss) - miss? injury affected and finding his feet at NM

(Once again, a bit of poor luck with injuries, but another really weak draft pool to select from)


So yeah, I don't subscribe to this "poor drafting history". None of the players who have left have really been missed, and they cashed in on a few of them along the way. The club was in a pretty unique position where they were able to use multiple first rounders every year but only really needed one or two to come on to keep their list healthy.

Took a similar approach at Carlton but had to work to engineer the picks.

Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Cuningham, Petrevski-Seton, Dow, O'Brien, Walsh, Stocker. I'm more than happy with that bunch of selections.

Analysing drafting is subjective but on your above analysis, I think you’re being very generous with some calls.

If a player like O”Rourke’s career is derailed by injury and is traded then delisted by another club, I put it down as a miss.

Picket showed nothing at either club and was plagued by poor professionalism and injuries but it’s a miss.

It seems you are trying to make excuses for SOS bad calls and praise his good ones.

FWIW I think his drafting for us has been really good, except Finbar and the rookie drafts.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Rumor we are interested in Jacobs.

Would be perfect for us.

We're really in a transition period waiting for TDK to be ready to take the primary ruck role.

Jacobs is durable and gives us an AFL standard ruckman if Kreuzer goes down.

Absolutely love Kreuzer but given his injury history, it might be good insurance to have Jacobs for the next couple of seasons.

For all we know, Jacobs could end up being our primary ruck. Good to have competition for spots

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Could a yolmen or menangola be enough to elevate our midfield . Then add Martin butler (papley if possible) one back up ruck if Phillips goes .. would yolmen still come as a DFA

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Yolmen UFA

 

[Eiffel 65]

You always think SOS should be sacked though!

Nothing wrong with Papley for pick 8.

If he leaves, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

There's been a lot of talk that North will go hard for Papley if he requests a trade, so I don't think it's a given that he's coming to us if he heads back to Victoria.

Supposedly has a good relationship with Rhyce Shaw.

 

[Faz 2000]

Yeh, but................ North Melbourne sucks

 

[spry]

Don't mind DJ, he seems to have a bit of an agenda against SOS, and has form going early with ridiculous hyperbole:

Not as good as the team line ups. Must like to mix it up . Wooooka wooooka (scratch noises)


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[Chookaradley]

Would be perfect for us.

We're really in a transition period waiting for TDK to be ready to take the primary ruck role.

Jacobs is durable and gives us an AFL standard ruckman if Kreuzer goes down.

Absolutely love Kreuzer but given his injury history, it might be good insurance to have Jacobs for the next couple of seasons.

For all we know, Jacobs could end up being our primary ruck. Good to have competition for spots

I just don't see it. I'd rather push De konnig through ahead of Phillips and just have Phillps as a 3rd string. Getting Jacob's is the equivalent of having Lobbe on the list in my eyes. I just don't see it.

 

[Jeremias]

I just don't see it. I'd rather push De konnig through ahead of Phillips and just have Phillps as a 3rd string. Getting Jacob's is the equivalent of having Lobbe on the list in my eyes. I just don't see it.

I don't think we'll be considering Jacobs unless Phillips departs.

 

[Eiffel 65]

I just don't see it. I'd rather push De konnig through ahead of Phillips and just have Phillps as a 3rd string. Getting Jacob's is the equivalent of having Lobbe on the list in my eyes. I just don't see it.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to how many games we can get out of Kreuzer.

The main issue is that he struggles to get on the park at times.

Hopefully he can string a full season together in 2020.

If we had a more durable ruckman, it wouldn't be as much of a consideration.