All about Trump

[Mick F]

I can only compare Trump to my old boss,
He wanted feed back as is how things are going,
So you did that and frankly it was like talking to a brick wall.

Agree, most managers talk about an open door policy but that is not the reality. I included it in their Performance Appraisal. They knew that I was serious, and their development opportunities, pay rises and promotions were based, in part, on them telling me ‘it’s a stupid idea’ etc.
As managers we don’t want to be told 6 months later, when the project has failed, that the plan wasn’t going to work, or benchmarks weren’t being achieved because they thought ‘it might hurt my feelings’.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The difference is this, I am left (an active member of the Greens) and I don't try to run from it, in fact I'm exceedingly proud of it

Others like you claim to be centrist, because it embarrasses you to tell people you are really a MAGA type guy

Were you in favour of the TPP? Neither was Trump, he made dumping it his first order of business.

So would that make you then “really a MAGA type guy”? Of course it wouldn’t.

So why then would you conclude that I’m “really a MAGA type guy”? Yeah, I think he’s done some good things (as do you), but I also think he’s corrupt and incompetent, so in what universe would I possibly be a MAGA type guy?

That is the difference

No, the difference is that you’re an ideologue. I’m not.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Were you in favour of the TPP? Neither was Trump, he made dumping it his first order of business.

So would that make you then “really a MAGA type guy”? Of course it wouldn’t.

So why then would you conclude that I’m “really a MAGA type guy”? Yeah, I think he’s done some good things (as do you), but I also think he’s corrupt and incompetent, so in what universe would I possibly be a MAGA type guy?



No, the difference is that you’re an ideologue. I’m not.

Look, I've found if one confesses about their beliefs, a huge weight is lifted

Just admit you are a MAGA guy and get on with openly supporting your idol, Trump

I bet you parade around your bedroom at night wearing your red MAGA Cap....its time to come out of the closet

 

[76woodenspooners]

Look, I've found if one confesses about their beliefs, a huge weight is lifted

My political belief is that democratic societies generally work best when they are cycled appropriately. It’s what happens in nature (eg: the cycling of the seasons, the cycling of bushfires and regrowth, the cycle of birth and death)

In 2008 I was a strong supporter of Obama. In 2016 I don’t think that cycle had ended, largely because of the lost time due to both the GFC and time taken to get healthcare through. I think the US needed to settle the Healthcare issue more, make more progress with climate change policy, and do something about public infrastructure. Right now I think the Green New Deal is exactly what the US needs ... but it’s such a shame that it’s being pushed by the far left rather than the centre-right (who could equally support it on ideological grounds). The Centre-right would at least have a chance of getting it up.

Just admit you are a MAGA guy and get on with openly supporting your idol, Trump

I bet you parade around your bedroom at night wearing your red MAGA Cap....its time to come out of the closet

Shrug ...

... the far left see people in the middle as right wing ultra conservatives.

... the far right see people in the middle as raging lefties.

They just cancel each other out at the ballot box, and leave the folks in the middle to determine the fate of nations ...

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[76woodenspooners]

 

[deltablues]

Whatever the opposite to Obama is.

That’s not an ideological position. It just happens to be conveniently the position of his party, and helps to make him seem important than the previous President



Do the US feds get that much involved in tertiary education apart from underwriting student loans? Trump’s attitude towards IP protection is probably the most helpful thing the federal government can do for university research.



Fund the wall, fund the military, cut everything else (especially anything to do with regulatory)



Now that’s an interesting one. He was very pro-infrastructure spending in his campaign and early in his Presidency, but he seems to have largely dropped the ball on that one. Probably because he found out that no decent infrastructure project was going to be operational before 2020 to help him get re-elected, so what’s the point. Besides, his base have been bashing him on the wall rather than any other infrastructure project.



Economic growth has been OK whilst he’s been President.



His policies are working against that.



Isn’t that how democracy works? Getting re-elected provides the incentive to do a decent job?



Democracies get the elected officials they deserve. Not meaning to be unfair to the US, the electorate probably didn’t foresee that Trump would be like this. And besides, how would the world today be different if Hillary had been elected? Let’s see what happens in 2020.

The USA is not a democracy. It is a federated republic -hence the Electoral College structure, a mechanism to preserve states' rights.

And the electorate - those who voted for Trump - certainly hoped Trump would do what he promised to do. Middle America/independents voted for a guy who is pro-America and pro-Constitution and anti-war and pro- border protection and pro-small government and who is doing what he promised to do. They don't intend to marry him. He may not be perfect, but he's perfect for the job.

To characterize that as "would be like this" is reminiscent of the loaded question where the "this" is 'how many times a week do you beat your wife?'.

But after 3 years we still have those with burrs under their saddles, focusing on petty gossip, hurricanes, cherry-picking paragraph parsing, pathetic gifs, personal abuse etc. Sure, that'll do it.

If I were a Dem I'd focus on the woeful candidates and debates we are witnessing.

 

[deltablues]

My political belief is that democratic societies generally work best when they are cycled appropriately. It’s what happens in nature (eg: the cycling of the seasons, the cycling of bushfires and regrowth, the cycle of birth and death)

In 2008 I was a strong supporter of Obama. In 2016 I don’t think that cycle had ended, largely because of the lost time due to both the GFC and time taken to get healthcare through. I think the US needed to settle the Healthcare issue more, make more progress with climate change policy, and do something about public infrastructure. Right now I think the Green New Deal is exactly what the US needs ... but it’s such a shame that it’s being pushed by the far left rather than the centre-right (who could equally support it on ideological grounds). The Centre-right would at least have a chance of getting it up.



Shrug ...

... the far left see people in the middle as right wing ultra conservatives.

... the far right see people in the middle as raging lefties.

They just cancel each other out at the ballot box, and leave the folks in the middle to determine the fate of nations ...

Look, I've found if one confesses about their beliefs, a huge weight is lifted

Just admit you are a MAGA guy and get on with openly supporting your idol, Trump

I bet you parade around your bedroom at night wearing your red MAGA Cap....its time to come out of the closet

You can't debate those with this madrassa-esque mindset, 76, where clearly, from the verbiage, your pov/opinion is considered a perversion.

And talking of beliefs and confessions, I'm sure a huge weight would be lifted from that poster had he confessed to have indulged in total BS when he pasted a totally misleading transcript extract purporting to be a judgment about Trump's alleged anti-Semitism, but which extract, as I clearly demonstrated, was in fact part of a complaint [statement of claim] later withdrawn by the flaky complainant.

But hey, I myself have no problem in you parading around night or day in your MAGA hat

 

[sirlothie]

The USA is not a democracy. It is a federated republic -hence the Electoral College structure, a mechanism to preserve states' rights.

And the electorate - those who voted for Trump - certainly hoped Trump would do what he promised to do. Middle America/independents voted for a guy who is pro-America and pro-Constitution and anti-war and pro- border protection and pro-small government and who is doing what he promised to do. They don't intend to marry him. He may not be perfect, but he's perfect for the job.

To characterize that as "would be like this" is reminiscent of the loaded question where the "this" is 'how many times a week do you beat your wife?'.

But after 3 years we still have those with burrs under their saddles, focusing on petty gossip, hurricanes, cherry-picking paragraph parsing, pathetic gifs, personal abuse etc. Sure, that'll do it.

If I were a Dem I'd focus on the woeful candidates and debates we are witnessing.

America is an oligarchy.

 

[sirlothie]

Look, I've found if one confesses about their beliefs, a huge weight is lifted

Just admit you are a MAGA guy and get on with openly supporting your idol, Trump

I bet you parade around your bedroom at night wearing your red MAGA Cap....its time to come out of the closet

You're just a dick looking for a reason to block people that don't agree with you like your mate thatsmyname.

If you need an echo chamber to remain convinced of your beliefs then that is sad.

 

[76woodenspooners]

And the electorate - those who voted for Trump - certainly hoped Trump would do what he promised to do. Middle America/independents voted for a guy who is pro-America and pro-Constitution and anti-war and pro- border protection and pro-small government and who is doing what he promised to do. They don't intend to marry him. He may not be perfect, but he's perfect for the job.

I agree that Trump has ticked a lot of boxes for many of the folks who voted for him ...

... BUT ...

... IMO the most consequential thing for any leader issue is culture. It drives everything, including the economy. It’s about ensuring people have a sense of pride in who they are, that they are part of something bigger than themselves. American leaders generally do a good job of it. Win wars. Put a man on the moon. Build cool military weapons. Be respected on the world stage. They adore their wife. Have kids with perfect teeth that go to college. Have cool pets. Kiss babies. Tour tech companies. Assassinate terrorists using SEAL teams. Tour farms. Eat at burger joints. Etc, etc, etc.

Sure, there are partisan folks who don’t care about any of that stuff - but I reckon it’s very important to the people in the middle who decide if a candidate gets up 51:49 or goes down 49:51.

And I reckon Trump has had a very poor performance on that front ... probably the worst performance since Carter’s screw-up in Iran.

If I were a Dem I'd focus on the woeful candidates and debates we are witnessing.

Yeah, TBH I have only seen small snippets of the debates and have been surprised at the poor quality. Sportsbet has Andrew Yang at 11:1 odds of winning the nomination ... seriously WTF?!?!

 

[deltablues]

America is an oligarchy.

Heh, yes it is if you subscribe to Wikipedia's view on minority rule, which completely ignores the Constitution and function of the Electoral College.

But in some other respects, re donors/apparatchiks/nomenklatura, such description would certainly go some way in explaining the relentless 24/7 opposition to Trump, the anti-politician outsider/not one of us.

Edward Gibbon could equally have been writing about the USA when he attributed much of the decline [and fall] of the Roman Empire to a loss of civic virtue, the gradual adoption of a more feminised society and the huge numbers of foreign barbarians that became ingrained in every aspect of the Empire's activities.

Time will tell...

 

[deltablues]

I agree that Trump has ticked a lot of boxes for many of the folks who voted for him ...

... BUT ...

... IMO the most consequential thing for any leader issue is culture. It drives everything, including the economy. It’s about ensuring people have a sense of pride in who they are, that they are part of something bigger than themselves. American leaders generally do a good job of it. Win wars. Put a man on the moon. Build cool military weapons. Be respected on the world stage. They adore their wife. Have kids with perfect teeth that go to college. Have cool pets. Kiss babies. Tour tech companies. Assassinate terrorists using SEAL teams. Tour farms. Eat at burger joints. Etc, etc, etc.

Sure, there are partisan folks who don’t care about any of that stuff - but I reckon it’s very important to the people in the middle who decide if a candidate gets up 51:49 or goes down 49:51.

And I reckon Trump has had a very poor performance on that front ... probably the worst performance since Carter’s screw-up in Iran.



Yeah, TBH I have only seen small snippets of the debates and have been surprised at the poor quality. Sportsbet has Andrew Yang at 11:1 odds of winning the nomination ... seriously WTF?!?!

76, you've lived in the States. You know the average Joe Blow doesn't talk much about politics.

Sure, there is popular soft culture, but bedrock American culture is all about Western philosophy, freedom of speech, Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence and rule of law, and Christianity, and in my experience nearly every American I come across has pride in being an American. That is one of the defining things about Americans, and that pride is part of the culture.

The Left has always defined itself by way of an undergraduate, idealistic mindset - searching for battles to fight, victims to champion, perceived injustices to remedy, and generally seeking Utopia. I guess we all do when young, but then most of us then grow up.

In this respect Trump is extremely grown up, dealing not with undergraduate feel-good issues which trigger indoctrinated, unformed minds, but with issues which are currently in conflict with bedrock US culture.

Trump is taking on the Chicoms on many fronts, resisting more M/E adventures [Bolton being fired is a plus], enforcing border laws [not as well as he should be doing], cutting red tape, reducing big government, and promoting a winning culture and confidence which is reflected in the job figures and economy.

Hence I strongly disagree with your bolded - to equate Trump with Carter is risible.

 

[sirlothie]

Heh, yes it is if you subscribe to Wikipedia's view on minority rule, which completely ignores the Constitution and function of the Electoral College.

But in some other respects, re donors/apparatchiks/nomenklatura, such description would certainly go some way in explaining the relentless 24/7 opposition to Trump, the anti-politician outsider/not one of us.

Edward Gibbon could equally have been writing about the USA when he attributed much of the decline [and fall] of the Roman Empire to a loss of civic virtue, the gradual adoption of a more feminised society and the huge numbers of foreign barbarians that became ingrained in every aspect of the Empire's activities.

Time will tell...

If USA falls, Australia will not be far behind. You could easily substitute the Roman Empire for Australia too and our populace is far weaker than America's. From what I hear even the French are already really struggling to maintain order. In 50 years, it could be a new world order.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Hence I strongly disagree with your bolded - to equate Trump with Carter is risible.

Heehee, I thought you’d enjoy that!

Let’s look at it another way ...

... probably the President who generated the most feel-good brand-America factor was Reagan ... he basically won the Cold War. Compare Trump to Reagan, and sure, they both had come from the entertainment business, but apart from that they’re like night and day.

76, you've lived in the States. You know the average Joe Blow doesn't talk much about politics.

I generally found Americans more engaged in the political process than Australians.

And Prescott Arizona is very different to downtown San Francisco which is very different to Denver Colorado.

Sure, there is popular soft culture, but bedrock American culture is all about Western philosophy, freedom of speech, Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence and rule of law, and Christianity, and in my experience nearly every American I come across has pride in being an American. That is one of the defining things about Americans, and that pride is part of the culture.

That implies a homogeneous view of America which it isn’t. You could turn on the TV and watch a dozen American sitcoms back-to-back and they would seem like they were all set on a different planet to each other ...

... and that was the case 40 years ago! (Dukes of Hazard v Laverne and Shirley v Eight is Enough v Diff’rent Strokes v Hawaii Five 0 v The Osbornes, etc, etc, etc) ...

... and probably even 50 years ago (The Waltons v Mr Ed v Get Smart v Little House on the Prairie v Bewitched v Happy Days v Beverly Hillbillies) ...

... and today even more so.

The Left has always defined itself by way of an undergraduate, idealistic mindset - searching for battles to fight, ...

“Searching for battles to fight” is a ubiquitously political mindset that stretches right across the political spectrum (define an “us” and a “them” to help consolidate power).

... victims to champion, perceived injustices to remedy, ...

That’s not necessarily partisan. The Bill of Rights is non partisan. Justice is a non-partisan Christian virtue.

... and generally seeking Utopia.

As in being progressive?

Being conservative isn’t the panacea either. The world changes, evolve or die. Of course not all change is good. The dynamic between the progressive and the conservative provide checks and balances on each other.

I guess we all do when young, but then most of us then grow up.

At its best we appreciate that there is power in nuance ...

... at its worst we become jaded and cynical.

In this respect Trump is extremely grown up, dealing not with undergraduate feel-good issues which trigger indoctrinated, unformed minds, but with issues which are currently in conflict with bedrock US culture.

That depends on the point of view.

For some, climate change is an undergraduate feel-good issue. For others, it represents an existential threat of the scale of the Cold War (ie: destruction of the planet)

For some, Bedrock US culture is white, god fearing, and big cars. For others, Bedrock US culture is about diversity, a melting pot derived from tired, poor, huddled masses who yearned to breathe free.

Trump is taking on the Chicoms on many fronts, ...

And to be fair, doing it in a reasonably conciliatory way.

... resisting more M/E adventures [Bolton being fired is a plus],

Don’t you think it was an error of judgement to make him NSA in the first place? It’s not that any of this was surprising.

... enforcing border laws [not as well as he should be doing], ...

Curious, what more could he be doing? Hasn’t he been largely hamstrung by the courts and now not having control of the house?

... and promoting a winning culture ...

Where is this winning culture coming from? Can you give some examples? (I’m really interested in this stuff)

... and confidence which is reflected in the job figures and economy.

The tax cuts would have contributed something ...

... but if you strip back the “lies, damned lies and statistics” strategy that all politicians use ...

... ie: cherry picking absolute figures versus relative figures, absolute values versus rates of change, etc, etc ...

... and look at the quality of life of the ‘voter in the middle’ and do they see that the quality of life for themselves, their loved ones, and their community is any better or worse as a result of Trump policies ...

... how would they see that they are winning?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Impeachment Inquiry in the House

This should be fun to watch

Edit: The Senate voted 100 to 0 that Trump must had over the Transcripts of the Ukraine conversations

 

[76woodenspooners]

Impeachment Inquiry in the House

This should be fun to watch

Edit: The Senate voted 100 to 0 that Trump must had over the Transcripts of the Ukraine conversations

Interesting times indeed.

Let’s see what the transcript says.

Trump has very strong form of making himself understood without having to explicitly say anything incriminating. Cohen confirmed as much. Let’s see if Trump got sloppy. And if he did get sloppy, let’s see if the Republicans jettison Trump over this ...

... it’ll be a test whether the Republicans see themselves as patriots, or follow Trump dogma that Democrats are the enemy.

Anyway, let’s see what the evidence says and whether it gives the Republicans any wiggle room.

 

[HeathySure]

this is going to be the greatest comedy in history and i cannot wait!

 

[deltablues]

Heehee, I thought you’d enjoy that!

Let’s look at it another way ...

... probably the President who generated the most feel-good brand-America factor was Reagan ... he basically won the Cold War. Compare Trump to Reagan, and sure, they both had come from the entertainment business, but apart from that they’re like night and day.



I generally found Americans more engaged in the political process than Australians.

And Prescott Arizona is very different to downtown San Francisco which is very different to Denver Colorado.



That implies a homogeneous view of America which it isn’t. You could turn on the TV and watch a dozen American sitcoms back-to-back and they would seem like they were all set on a different planet to each other ...

... and that was the case 40 years ago! (Dukes of Hazard v Laverne and Shirley v Eight is Enough v Diff’rent Strokes v Hawaii Five 0 v The Osbornes, etc, etc, etc) ...

... and probably even 50 years ago (The Waltons v Mr Ed v Get Smart v Little House on the Prairie v Bewitched v Happy Days v Beverly Hillbillies) ...

... and today even more so.



“Searching for battles to fight” is a ubiquitously political mindset that stretches right across the political spectrum (define an “us” and a “them” to help consolidate power).



That’s not necessarily partisan. The Bill of Rights is non partisan. Justice is a non-partisan Christian virtue.



As in being progressive?

Being conservative isn’t the panacea either. The world changes, evolve or die. Of course not all change is good. The dynamic between the progressive and the conservative provide checks and balances on each other.



At its best we appreciate that there is power in nuance ...

... at its worst we become jaded and cynical.



That depends on the point of view.

For some, climate change is an undergraduate feel-good issue. For others, it represents an existential threat of the scale of the Cold War (ie: destruction of the planet)

For some, Bedrock US culture is white, god fearing, and big cars. For others, Bedrock US culture is about diversity, a melting pot derived from tired, poor, huddled masses who yearned to breathe free.



And to be fair, doing it in a reasonably conciliatory way.



Don’t you think it was an error of judgement to make him NSA in the first place? It’s not that any of this was surprising.



Curious, what more could he be doing? Hasn’t he been largely hamstrung by the courts and now not having control of the house?



Where is this winning culture coming from? Can you give some examples? (I’m really interested in this stuff)



The tax cuts would have contributed something ...

... but if you strip back the “lies, damned lies and statistics” strategy that all politicians use ...

... ie: cherry picking absolute figures versus relative figures, absolute values versus rates of change, etc, etc ...

... and look at the quality of life of the ‘voter in the middle’ and do they see that the quality of life for themselves, their loved ones, and their community is any better or worse as a result of Trump policies ...

... how would they see that they are winning?

[Why is the screen now black and print white when I log on and reply/post?!]

US bedrock culture is not popular culture [TV, etc] - it comprises the core Western European cultural institutions, philosophy and mindset which have created countries such as the States, attracting folk whose countries lack that bedrock culture. See Mexico, Central America, South America, India, Africa, China etc.

And it is that bedrock culture which is under assault.

As previously mentioned, I am interested in politics from a constitutional and philosophical angle, and I believe that the Constitutional separation of powers [ legislative, executive, and judicial] is increasingly under threat. In that context, past a certain point, getting down into the weeds and arguing about Trump, serve and volley style, may win a few games but not the match. If there is no meeting of minds on the fundamentals then all it does is entrench folk's existing viewpoints, with examples tailored to suit.

The thing is, Trump won. Like it or not. The Dems suffered their worst electoral defeat since 1928. But the Dems (the extremist branch) are still in bitter existential denial. Tactically Trump has forced the more moderate Left to support the extremists. But that is not enough for the hardcore Left. I suspect that this will cost the Dems dearly in the next election.

Trump is carrying out much of what he promised to do, but there is a lot more he should be doing. Agree or disagree. The extent of the politicization of e.g. the judiciary, DOJ, IRA, VA, FBI [OK, the FBI has always been political] has finally been exposed, thanks to Trump's unexpected victory. This is of grave significance to the fabric of American culture- but ignored by the MSM.

PS In my experience politics is not much discussed, by reference to the many US towns and cities in which I have lived/visited friends. And certainly rarely discussed in a work environment. Partisans will of course try to get you enmeshed in a political discussion. For example, 2 of my cousins in CA hate Trump with a passion. I never discuss politics with them [and nor did I when Obama was POTUS].

 

[deltablues]

Interesting times indeed.

Let’s see what the transcript says.

Trump has very strong form of making himself understood without having to explicitly say anything incriminating. Cohen confirmed as much. Let’s see if Trump got sloppy. And if he did get sloppy, let’s see if the Republicans jettison Trump over this ...

... it’ll be a test whether the Republicans see themselves as patriots, or follow Trump dogma that Democrats are the enemy.

Anyway, let’s see what the evidence says and whether it gives the Republicans any wiggle room.

It won't be a test at all within the parameters defined.

Impeachment is a word used by the Dems every day as part of their theatrical sturm und drang and now is a desperate action by Pelosi to retain power by further pandering to the hard Left. Get back to me when the House passes an impeachment resolution, then successfully prosecutes it, and then Congress approves.

It will never pass Congress, and is likely to drive more independents into the arms of the GOP at the next election.

And if Trump wins the next election it is not unlikely that mainstram Dems will purge the hard Left from the party, or split into two parties - the BSC Party, and the Democrat Party.

 

[76woodenspooners]

[Why is the screen now black and print white when I log on and reply/post?!

Have you got a lightbulb icon in the top right corner of the screen? It toggles between B&W and W&B.

 

[Maggie5]

[Why is the screen now black and print white when I log on and reply/post?!]

On the top of page near search (RH), click on the light bulb and it will change the style.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I left the left mate, too embarrassed to be associated with them. Once upon a time you found me at university rallies and marching down Bourke St opposing the Iraq War. Now I wouldn't be caught dead within a mile of them. Utter embarrassment.

Although you did the right thing marching with the left against the Iraq war. Removing Saddam Hussein was a stupid diversion from tracking down Osama.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It won't be a test at all within the parameters defined.

Let’s look at the evidence first.

If the phone transcript becomes incontrovertible evidence that Trump sought a quid-pro-quo from Ukraine (government ‘quid’ for personal ‘quo’) ...

... well, surely that wouldn’t stand up to your idea of constitutional integrity? Or your idea of bedrock US culture?

I strongly believe that Trump wouldn’t be so stupid to leave incontrovertible evidence of bribery ...

... if there was one skill Trump could take from his time as a New York real estate developer it’d be to not leave any fingerprints on things that could get him into trouble. Cohen confirmed as much.

But, hey, we’re dealing with a whistleblower complaint by somebody who is senior enough to be in on the President’s calls ... so anything is possible.

Sure, Republicans won’t do jack if there is no iron clad evidence of impropriety.

It’s the “what if the evidence of impropriety is iron clad?” scenario that I think will be interesting.

Let’s see what happens tomorrow when the transcript gets released.

 

[swoop42]

Is it usual practice for a call made by a President to a foreign leader to be recorded and transcribed?

I like the theory that a "whistle blower" doesn't actually exist and an individual acting on behalf of the Trump administration just fed false information to the Democrats in order to bring about the current situation.

In the world of international espionage this kind of move wouldn't be all that uncommon I would have thought.

Trump is setting them up!