Discussion Prison Bars debate

[CatToTheFuture]

This is actually a really good analogy. Both wear blue, red and white in a striped jumper, yet there are slight differences. How would western bulldogs fans feel if this was the case? Would they be just as stubborn as us Collingwood fans?

Not really. Centrals are only 60 years old, makes sense for them to switch. Port were wearing the prison bars for what 50 or so years before Collingwood was even a concept.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Not really. Centrals are only 60 years old, makes sense for them to switch. Port were wearing the prison bars for what 50 or so years before Collingwood was even a concept.

Not quite, although we were wearing them for 90+ years prior to joining the AFL, including over 30 premierships.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Not quite, although we were wearing them for 90+ years prior to joining the AFL, including over 30 premierships.

Yeah I took a stab at the number based on the year on the year on your current jumper

 

[magpienato]

Not really. Centrals are only 60 years old, makes sense for them to switch. Port were wearing the prison bars for what 50 or so years before Collingwood was even a concept.

According to footyjumpers.com Port first wore PB in 1902, whereas Collingwood had been wearing the black and white since 1892.

 

[Freight Train]

According to footyjumpers.com Port first wore PB in 1902, whereas Collingwood had been wearing the black and white since 1892.

Whilst true, your club has been primarily white with black stripes for a majority of its history, and only went to the clashing black with white stripes not long after Port joined the AFL.

 

[magpienato]

Whilst true, your club has been primarily white with black stripes for a majority of its history, and only went to the clashing black with white stripes not long after Port joined the AFL.

Eddie reckons he got the inspiration for the jumper change from 'The Machine' era, so we are only really reverting back to the style of jumper we once wore, although quite briefly.

 

[Freight Train]

Eddie reckons he got the inspiration for the jumper change from 'The Machine' era, so we are only really reverting back to the style of jumper we once wore, although quite briefly.

View attachment 749984

Yeah but they’re two completely different jumpers. The current jumper that does have any degree of clash with the bars is the jumper the club started wearing in 2000. Just makes no sense to deny a club 110 years of history at the highest level for a false sense of brand preservation when both brands can exist on their own merit.

I know I’m just repeating what I said months ago now but I guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot and the WAFL & SANFL combined had have become the main national league, and Collingwood had have joined, we would have a #ReturnTheStripes campaign if the Pies hadn’t have been allowed to wear their black and white striped guernsey.

You can say that Port can wear the jumper all they want in the SANFL but it’s a cop out - if Collingwood could only wear the stripes in the VFL and not the AFL, it would be an outrage.

I’ll gladly pay out $100, and you can quote me on this post, I’m a man of my word - if Port does get to return to the PBs full time, life will just go on. There will be little to no brand confusion, and both clubs will carry on with life as usual. If Port wearing the bars does cause mass confusion and it turns out it does have a noticeable negative impact on Collingwood, the first Collingwood fan to quote this post back to me, I will pay them out.

That is how confident I am that bringing back the bars is the right move.

 

[magpienato]

I know I’m just repeating what I said months ago now but I guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot and the WAFL & SANFL combined had have become the main national league, and Collingwood had have joined, we would have a #ReturnTheStripes campaign if the Pies hadn’t have been allowed to wear their black and white striped guernsey.

If the shoe was on the other foot, we would have no standing to request the return of our jumper. Port Adelaide would have the right to the colours and identity of Magpies, and we would have to change. But this is all revisionist history and what-if's. The AFL formed the way it did, Port left the SANFL and joined the AFL.

And as for the bet, I'm not too concerned with the whole branding area of the debate, as I said previously I'm opposed to the PB in principle.

 

[magpienato]

Correction* Port didn't literally leave the SANFL but you know what I mean. For some reason I cant edit the post.

 

[RossFC]

If the shoe was on the other foot, we would have no standing to request the return of our jumper. Port Adelaide would have the right to the colours and identity of Magpies, and we would have to change. But this is all revisionist history and what-if's. The AFL formed the way it did, Port left the SANFL and joined the AFL.

And as for the bet, I'm not too concerned with the whole branding area of the debate, as I said previously I'm opposed to the PB in principle.

I'd probs say if Collingwood joined the SANFL, lose the Magpie nickname and find a proper clash jumper when you play away to us.

 

[TY24]

Why are Collingwood playing in the SANFL grand final?

 

[eddiesmith]

Why are Collingwood playing in the SANFL grand final?

Did they win their 3rd ever premiership today?

 

[Zer0]

I really wish that PA would follow Collingwoods wishes and not use their colour scheme

 

[Johnny Bananas]

AFL is a product, just like Coca-Cola. It is in the league's interests to retain sufficient differentiation between the brand identities of its clubs, with a different mascot/nickname and colour palette each. Any official AFL merchandise in black and white is therefore immediately associated with Collingwood, yellow and black with Richmond and so on. Coca-Cola's different soft drink product lines for example (Coca-Cola, Fanta, Sprite, Lift, Kirks etc) are packaged in completely different colour schemes for the same reason - brand differentiation. If Fanta and Sprite were both sold in Orange cans, of course you could still read the label and tell which is which, but looking over a fridge display as a whole the brand identity of both would be diluted.

I want you to read this very slowly and carefully:

Football clubs are not soft drinks. They are institutions with proud histories that people have very strong feelings about

 

[eddiesmith]

I want you to read this very slowly and carefully:

Football clubs are not soft drinks. They are institutions with proud histories that people have very strong feelings about

And the Port Adelaide Football Club has a very proud 22 year history in the AFL wearing Teal...

I will ask this question to those who want to wear the prison bars whenever they like, or all home games not against Collingwood. 23 years ago Port Adelaide joined the AFL knowing there was already a team with Black and white stripes in the league, they agreed to join, become the power, wear teal and not wear the PB jumper. Now people want to change that agreement. So of course there would be scepticism from most that any agreement that limited their jumper wearing would be honored for long. What's to say they decide to wear it for showdowns, then in 3 years time they slowly creep it into more games, then its all home games. Next thing you know they are wearing it against Collingwood.

The fact they want to go back on their original agreement and the way Geelong cracked the shits and suddenly changed what they wear v Collingwood would make any club not trust any agreements. Stick with the status quo and if you don't like it, head to the SANFL to watch your precious prison bars lose another grand final.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Now people want to change that agreement. So of course there would be scepticism from most that any agreement that limited their jumper wearing would be honored for long.

Screw your agreement, it's garbage. Any such agreement can be torn up, like the agreement where West Coast had to pay every away team's travel costs when they started in the league. That doesn't exist anymore.

 

[barrackers]

This is actually a really good analogy. Both wear blue, red and white in a striped jumper, yet there are slight differences. How would western bulldogs fans feel if this was the case? Would they be just as stubborn as us Collingwood fans?

Collingwood was formed from the Britannia Football Club who wore red, white and blue. As these were Footscray's colours we couldn't use them when entering the VFA. These were the respective jumpers in 1891 (Britannia's final year), clearly a different design. As history reflects Collingwood embraced black and white continuing with our colours despite the potential opportunity created by the breakaway of the VFL just 5 seasons later.

Britannia

Footscray

http://footyjumpers.com/images/Footscray-1890.gif

 

[Pappagallo]

The fact they want to go back on their original agreement and the way Geelong cracked the s**ts and suddenly changed what they wear v Collingwood would make any club not trust any agreements. Stick with the status quo and if you don't like it, head to the SANFL to watch your precious prison bars lose another grand final.

Sorry but you can’t crack the sads at Geelong for going back on a supposed “gentlemen’s agreement” when you won’t honour the written offer made by Allan McAlister that we could wear the Prison Bars if we finished ahead of you for three consecutive seasons (for those playing at home we did it for five).

 

[jle101]

I don't mean to necro this thread, but I was wondering about something when reading about Port's 1990 bid recently.

If Port was let in to the AFL in '91 instead of the Crows, where would the team have played it's home games?.. Thebarton, possibly? I assume Football Park would have been off the cards since it was the SANFL's ground. Would operating out of Adelaide Oval have been feasible for them?

Don't know where else to ask such questions

 

[jle101]

I also thought I'd share this screen shot of a juicy-looking hypothetical Port AFL side, had they made it back in 1991.

 

[Prison bar Pete]

I don't mean to necro this thread, but I was wondering about something when reading about Port's 1990 bid recently.

If Port was let in to the AFL in '91 instead of the Crows, where would the team have played it's home games?.. Thebarton, possibly? I assume Football Park would have been off the cards since it was the SANFL's ground. Would operating out of Adelaide Oval have been feasible for them?

Don't know where else to ask such questions

Adelaide Oval

 

[Prison bar Pete]

I also thought I'd share this screen shot of a juicy-looking hypothetical Port AFL side, had they made it back in 1991.

There's a few that would have had to come out of retirement!

 

[jle101]

There's a few that would have had to come out of retirement!

Haha, it certainly would have been a sight seeing Russell Ebert on the park in his 40's. I also highly doubt they could have lured Craig Bradley away, either.

 

[hansie]

Bars looked good last night..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PortMagic]

This whole Port agreed to this, they made their bed now they sleep in it argument is an absolute load of s**t. Jog on with that, that's like saying that someone is mugging you at knifepoint, you can either hand over your wallet or get stabbed, so you hand over your wallet and then someone's like "oh well they're not entitled to that wallet anymore, they handed it over voluntarily." Port only had one choice to remain viable as a profitable business and keep people in jobs and preserve the future of the club and that was to join the national league.

• This agreement was made over 20 years ago, before the advent of away/clash jumpers
• Port didn't have a lot of choice - either stay on a sinking SANFL ship or move to the new VFL/AFL and receive national exposure
• There was the agreement made (allegedly) that if Port finished on top of Collingwood for consecutive seasons, they'd be allowed to return to black and white
• Port wearing the PBs will not diminish the Collingwood brand at all. That's like saying North and Geelong diminish each other's brands by wearing blue and white stripes
• For the large majority of Collingwood's history, you've been white with black stripes. It's only since Port joined the league Collingwood have taken the black with white stripes look, so if you really wanna go on about history, you could have the Pies in their historic jumper and Port in their historic jumper and there is no clash, and no "this is our brand" argument.

Easy for Collingwood fans to talk down on this when you lucked into the financially viable league (which if West Coast hadn't have joined, it wouldn't have been). If it was the SANFL that became the AFL, and Collingwood had to give up their heritage, I'll bet every last dollar I have the argument would be from Collingwood fans to "return the stripes".

I think this whole argument is a bit like daylight savings or marriage equality - people will resist change because they feel it could negatively impact them but then it actually happens and life goes on all the same, nothing really changes apart from the people who wanted the change in the first place - by this I mean Port get to keep their tradition, and nothing at all will change for Collingwood. Your brand will not be watered down, people will still see full black and white stripes as Collingwood. Collingwood will still be the Magpies of the AFL.

One of the most intelligent posts in big footy history