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Squiggle tips Demons at 77% chance -- What's your tip? -- Team line-ups »
At their best is a one game thing. At their best they beat some good teams, and Geelong too. You are right about that. But that is a small sample size.
Long term trends show at best. A 22 game sample proves they were middle of the road.
Convincing Loss - Bottom 8 Side | Narrow Loss - Bottom 8 Side | Convincing Loss - Top 8 Side | Narrow Loss - Top 8 Side | Narrow Win - Bottom 8 Side | Convincing Win - Bottom 8 Side | Narrow Win - Top 8 Side | Convincing Win - Top 8 Side |
1 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 4 |
I don't agree. Games against Geelong and West Coast at least were probably close the the best level this squad can produce. Mitchell or no Mitchell. They were very impressive games. We just weren't at that level often enough this season,We weren't at our best this year
Way too much explaining there. I’m sure, there are plenty of data for supporters of other clubs and how they deserved better outcomes over the last 10 years. But me, Im just looking at our ladder position for 2019 and NOT forgetting that we’ve lost to North, Saints, * , Swans , Demons as much as we beat gws wce and cats!!This argument doesn't make sense. The statement is that Hawthorn were, at best, a middle of the road side. That's explicitly false.
But, let me take your moving of the goalposts in stride. If we're going to be all technical and break down a 22 game sample you still need to take the attributes of the game and the performance by the Hawks into context. Let's assign them categories:
Convincing = >20
Narrow = <20
Convincing Loss - Bottom 8 Side Narrow Loss - Bottom 8 Side Convincing Loss - Top 8 Side Narrow Loss - Top 8 Side Narrow Win - Bottom 8 Side Convincing Win - Bottom 8 Side Narrow Win - Top 8 Side Convincing Win - Top 8 Side 1 3 3 4 2 4 1 4
Purely based on the outcome of the games and how they were won or lost indicates we are more heavily geared towards winning convincingly than we were towards losing convincingly.
If we were being fair dinkum about analysing it, you'd also remove statistically useless games like those where we suffered a loss due to multiple in game injuries.
We had no Mitchell for the whole year and we're trying to get Scully and Wingard up to speed.I don't agree. Games against Geelong and West Coast at least were probably close the the best level this squad can produce. Mitchell or no Mitchell. They were very impressive games. We just weren't at that level often enough this season,
Way too much explaining there. I’m sure, there are plenty of data for supporters of other clubs and how they deserved better outcomes over the last 10 years. But me, Im just looking at our ladder position for 2019 and NOT forgetting that we’ve lost to North, Saints, * , Swans , Demons as much as we beat gws wce and cats!!
9th!!
Just concentrate on the year 2019! Don’t worry about the rest, we couldn’t get to game 23 unfortunately.Abasi can I have special clearance to play the man here?
Way too much explaining there. I’m sure, there are plenty of data for supporters of other clubs and how they deserved better outcomes over the last 10 years. But me, Im just looking at our ladder position for 2019 and NOT forgetting that we’ve lost to North, Saints, * , Swans , Demons as much as we beat gws wce and cats!!
9th!!
2008? Middle of the road?Why put the same weight on the games early in the season when we were looking like a bottom 4 side , as you do on the games we won against good sides in the latter part of the year where our only really bad loss was North? Surely more recent games are more relevant to where the team stands. Yes, we came 9th because over the entire course of the season we were not good enough to finish higher, but I think this discussion is about where we stand NOW.
Using the season as a whole and ignoring most recent form is to me like saying the 2008 GF team was middle of the road because it averaged 9th spot if you look at the 5 seasons leading up to and including 2008. We don't think the 2008 team was middle of the road, because we look at their most recent results. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't do that with this season (albeit we are working with a smaller sample size). The team at the start of the year was worse than middle of the road, the team by the end was much better than that. The fact that it averaged middle of the road over the season doesn't say as much about where they are now as their most recent results do (IMO).
2008? Middle of the road?
111 points for
20 wins
Centurion
As for this discussion next season will tell us a lot, we've missed finals 2 of the last 3 seasons, if we don't finish top 4 or thereabouts in 2020 I think some posters will have to accept that we're middle of the road.
Hopefully not the town bike...If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
Hopefully not the town bike...
(Runs for cover)
If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
As for this discussion next season will tell us a lot, we've missed finals 2 of the last 3 seasons, if we don't finish top 4 or thereabouts in 2020 I think some posters will have to accept that we're middle of the road.