General MFC Discussion 2.0

[Cannon82]

You could easily flip that logic and say for every spud there could be a player who's a late developer. Dane Swan was pick 73, took 4 years to do anything and became a Brownlow medalist

Same with Nev Jetta,

Yes, there's always a couple of cases where someone randomly becomes good after being s**t for 4 or 5 years. If someone is training right under your nose though, then they're going to be a far more known quantity than a young kid. Can't really "flip that logic" though because it applies to any and every player on or off an AFL list (except the ones who are already good, although they can also become s**t after four years, ie Jack Grimes, Jack Trengove, Clayton Oliver, etc). Anyone could suddenly become good if given the opportunity. Even you, NickGrant69, you filthy maple-syrup drenched Canadian. Chances are they won't though, so your odds of lucky dipping the draft are probably going to be slightly better than hoping that a solid lump of carbon that the club has been sitting on for 5 years suddenly becomes a diamond.

 

[Proper Gander]

In conclusion we need to cull some more potatoes for the emotional gratification but keep a couple ordinary types (not Wagner) in case they go from ugly ducking to Dane Swan, churn through a lucky dip of kids each year, draft Topkent and obviously turn everyone into an inside midfielder. The last part has to be included as inevitable. I know people that won’t even drive along the Punt Road for fear of being hijacked by our coaches and forced on-ball. It’s like the Australian equivalent of being kidnapped by aliens in Nevada and probed.

 

[Demon bhoy]

You could easily flip that logic and say for every spud there could be a player who's a late developer. Dane Swan was pick 73, took 4 years to do anything and became a Brownlow medalist

Same with Nev Jetta,

Dane Swan had played 50 games and was entrenched in the Collingwood midfield after 4 years and Jetta got delisted before he came good, between the ones who can’t get on the field and the ones who shouldn’t be on the field that’s a big percentage of the list and salary cap in the vain hope one might come good. It’s a bold strategy

 

[Cannon82]

Dane Swan had played 50 games and was entrenched in the Collingwood midfield after 4 years and Jetta got delisted before he came good, between the ones who can’t get on the field and the ones who shouldn’t be on the field that’s a big percentage of the list and salary cap in the vain hope one might come good. It’s a bold strategy

Yep. Yes we need depth, but we also need to balance that out with list regeneration. You can hang on to players, hope for the best and wish that they turn into Luke Hodge, Gary Ablett, Tony Lockett, etc next year, but in the meantime the few good players we do have are aging and growing frustrated at the lack of progress. Sometimes you do have to push the boat out and try your luck because the steady-steady approach is going to leave us rooted to the foot of the table.

 

[Demon bhoy]

Yep. Yes we need depth, but we also need to balance that out with list regeneration. You can hang on to players, hope for the best and wish that they turn into Luke Hodge, Gary Ablett, Tony Lockett, etc next year, but in the meantime the few good players we do have are aging and growing frustrated at the lack of progress. Sometimes you do have to push the boat out and try your luck because the steady-steady approach is going to leave us rooted to the foot of the table.

100%, the list is stagnating the club has not drafted in the first round for 3 years where the majority of the the talent comes from and have taken massive risks with long term contracts that haven’t worked. Retaining blokes like the wagners offers nothing, much prefer the club take risks with 18 year olds, keep turning over the last 4 or 5 spots on the list as opposed to hanging on and hoping

 

[pjfairbairn]

You can add Tim Taranato to the Gaff/Judd/Pendles list of deadset jets who grew up barracking up for Melbourne.

 

[Topkent]

100%, the list is stagnating the club has not drafted in the first round for 3 years where the majority of the the talent comes from and have taken massive risks with long term contracts that haven’t worked. Retaining blokes like the wagners offers nothing, much prefer the club take risks with 18 year olds, keep turning over the last 4 or 5 spots on the list as opposed to hanging on and hoping

We aren't talking about drafting in the first 3 rounds though, you are talking about drafting with picks in the 100s. You know rookie and late picks. The type of picks that you get Wagner's

 

[Johnny Karate]

Delisting players for the sake of it isn’t good list management and doesn’t win flags even if it’s emotionally gratifying for fans.

Delisting players for being not up to it is purposeful. Hanging onto rubbish doesn’t win flags even if it’s emotionally gratifying for other fans.

 

[Demon bhoy]

We aren't talking about drafting in the first 3 rounds though, you are talking about drafting with picks in the 100s. You know rookie and late picks. The type of picks that you get Wagner's

It’s an absolute s**t shoot after the first 2 rounds agreed, there’s about 70 players taken in the draft every year then rookie upgrades and rookie drafts and very few of them will see an AFL field, most of them are Wagner types at best but that shouldn’t mean we hang on to the wagners we have just because. Let’s keep looking we might keep finding Wagners but we might find a Harmes or Laird or McGovern or Rampe or tipungwuti, our last pick is 74 this year maybe even the next Dane Swan, we know what the Wagners are I don’t see the point in standing still, it would be nice if the biggest Risk the club took this year was not signing a chronically injured player from another club to a long term contract, I’m all for rolling the dice with the back end of the list and seeing what sticks

 

[blitznu]

If we pick up Tomlinson and Elliot how many other list spots do we have to fill before Stretch, Frost JKH?

 

[Devastating Boris]

You can add Tim Taranato to the Gaff/Judd/Pendles list of deadset jets who grew up barracking up for Melbourne.

s**t we almost got 2 years ago too!

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Delisting players for being not up to it is purposeful. Hanging onto rubbish doesn’t win flags even if it’s emotionally gratifying for other fans.

Nice try.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Goes both ways, and doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Yes we need depth, but delisting a couple of cloggers and crossing your fingers as you reach out and pluck away with a 7th round pick, at least you could get lucky rather than cultivating a confirmed coccydynia for another season.

Good players don’t go beyond the mid 50s anymore. With the academy and improved drafting you don’t get obscene sliders anymore.

 

[blitznu]

Good players don’t go beyond the mid 50s anymore. With the academy and improved drafting you don’t get obscene sliders anymore.

The last bloke picked before the season would be in the top 5 drafted. The 3rd and 2nd last players picked this year will/have played in finals. Answorth didnt miss a game after debuting and Hore was pretty handy for us.
Stack obviously wasnt last player picked but whatever

 

[Cannon82]

Good players don’t go beyond the mid 50s anymore. With the academy and improved drafting you don’t get obscene sliders anymore.

Except when you do, like that Brennan Stack fella people have been raving about. There are always going to be late developers and hidden gems available late on. The "improved drafting" teams have all pretty much accepted that ruckman are too difficult to pick so leave the best talent until late first / early second round. There wouldn't be any state league heroes available if the drafting is spot on. No Tim Kelly types to be had. No system is perfect, particularly when AFL clubs are involved.

Sometimes it is worth rolling the dice. You don't delist 8 people and pick up 6 or 7 5th+ round draftees, but if a speculative player or two can be picked up at the cost of middle-aged verified plodders, might be worth a crack. What are we losing? If we're relying on those guys to play half a season or more, chances are we're already ****ed.

 

[blitznu]

Except when you do, like that Brennan Stack fella people have been raving about. There are always going to be late developers and hidden gems available late on. The "improved drafting" teams have all pretty much accepted that ruckman are too difficult to pick so leave the best talent until late first / early second round. There wouldn't be any state league heroes available if the drafting is spot on. No Tim Kelly types to be had. No system is perfect, particularly when AFL clubs are involved.

Sometimes it is worth rolling the dice. You don't delist 8 people and pick up 6 or 7 5th+ round draftees, but if a speculative player or two can be picked up at the cost of middle-aged verified plodders, might be worth a crack. What are we losing? If we're relying on those guys to play half a season or more, chances are we're already f’ed.

Sydney Stack it is Brennan was a bulldog. I doubt Wagner is playing for what a first year player is so even if its 50k-100k its still money we can pay off another contract early. Wagner doesnt play a position wed be ****ed if they got injured in we could move anybody to the halfback line.

 

[Cannon82]

Sydney Stack it is Brennan was a bulldog. I doubt Wagner is playing for what a first year player is so even if its 50k-100k its still money we can pay off another contract early. Wagner doesnt play a position wed be f’ed if they got injured in we could move anybody to the halfback line.

That's the one, I'm getting my wires crossed.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Good players don’t go beyond the mid 50s anymore. With the academy and improved drafting you don’t get obscene sliders anymore.

Nice try.

 

[Topkent]

Except when you do, like that Brennan Stack fella people have been raving about. There are always going to be late developers and hidden gems available late on. The "improved drafting" teams have all pretty much accepted that ruckman are too difficult to pick so leave the best talent until late first / early second round. There wouldn't be any state league heroes available if the drafting is spot on. No Tim Kelly types to be had. No system is perfect, particularly when AFL clubs are involved.

Sometimes it is worth rolling the dice. You don't delist 8 people and pick up 6 or 7 5th+ round draftees, but if a speculative player or two can be picked up at the cost of middle-aged verified plodders, might be worth a crack. What are we losing? If we're relying on those guys to play half a season or more, chances are we're already f’ed.

I agree with this just not with delisting everyone and having 7 picks into the 100.
How many spots do we have currently to fill

 

[sledbomber]

Good players don’t go beyond the mid 50s anymore. With the academy and improved drafting you don’t get obscene sliders anymore.

Mitch Lewis goes alright


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[Cannon82]

I agree with this just not with delisting everyone and having 7 picks into the 100.
How many spots do we have currently to fill

I did say you don't delist 8 people and pick a lot of 63rd round draftees.

Dunno, haven't been paying attention. Not really fussed about trade rumours, our list status and all that jazz - I'll have a closer look after the trade period and draft when its all been sorted. I'll start moaning and complaining from a slightly more informed position then.

 

[Topkent]

I did say you don't delist 8 people and pick a lot of 63rd round draftees.

Dunno, haven't been paying attention. Not really fussed about trade rumours, our list status and all that jazz - I'll have a closer look after the trade period and draft when its all been sorted. I'll start moaning and complaining from a slightly more informed position then.

Off the top of me head.

Keilty, Smith, Garlett, Lewis, Maynard. So our 5th pick is 70 at the moment.

If we cut 2 more you are looking at picks in the 80s

I'd he happy to cut JKH and Stretch as well and take 2 extra rookies

 

[blitznu]

Off the top of me head.

Keilty, Smith, Garlett, Lewis, Maynard. So our 5th pick is 70 at the moment.

If we cut 2 more you are looking at picks in the 80s

I'd he happy to cut JKH and Stretch as well and take 2 extra rookies

Is that with Tomlinson and Elliot? might not get Elliot though. Or splitting pick 3?

 

[Topkent]

Is that with Tomlinson and Elliot? might not get Elliot though. Or splitting pick 3?

Without neither of em. Just confirmed stuff

 

[blitznu]

Without neither of em. Just confirmed stuff

So if we do split our pick and get Tomlinson and lose JKH and Stretch our last pick will still be 70. Frost goes we can pick someone up before the season starts get Elliot our last pick is 50 odd.