Coach Is Hardwick now the second best coach in the league behind Clarkson?

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Another flag puts Scott clear second. If he can jag 2 that puts him just about on Clarksons level. Shame it isn't likely to happen.
Scott is horrible at developing juniors and that’s the reason Wells keeps topping up with mature talent. With the list he’s had he’s blown too many opportunities at a second flag to be considered a top coach in the league.
 
Weasel words do not deny the facts. I'm not denying anything past, nor do I seek to.

As for its not changing soon, dont put your house on it & dont believe all you hear from the Melbourne media:

.... the biggest game of the year will be contested at the venue the AFL and its co-conspirators within the Victorian Labor government have declared will be the home of the AFL grand final until at least 2057.

Such inarguable and damning facts saw the emergence on Friday of a rare political unity ticket between Labor and Liberal premiers and opposition leaders from South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania, all of whom are wondering if the AFL should just drop the pretence and go back to using a “V” instead of an “A” in its name.

Leaders from these great Aussie rules states lined up to tell The Weekend Australian it was time the AFL started sharing the love when it comes not just to grand final day but match scheduling.

Tasmanian Liberal Premier Will Hodgman even questioned the entire credibility of the competition, saying there would be no true national league until footy-mad Tassie had a team of its own.

“Melbourne was actually founded by Tasmanians back in 1835,” Mr Hodgman said.

“You’d think that by now they’d show some gratitude and let us have a team in the competition.”

WA Labor Premier Mark McGowan, whose state is home to last year’s premiers, West Coast, but who barracks for the Fremantle Dockers, said he had been advocating for the return of State of Origin to celebrate the contribution a footy powerhouse such as WA had made to the national game.

He said although he appreciated the tradition argument about the MCG, the benefits of hosting the grand final could be better shared. “If the AFL did ever want to try something different, it would be hard to look past Optus Stadium — the best stadium in the country,” he said.

He echoed the sentiments of WA fans about the onerous travel demands on the state’s two clubs.

“I’m sure some WA footy fans would argue the non-Victorian clubs often get a raw deal when it comes to things like travel and fixtures. They might have a point, but I personally like our underdog status and it makes beating the Vics much, much sweeter,’’ Mr McGowan said.

The sentiments are even more hostile in SA, where the Adelaide Crows finished top in 2017, were unbeaten in their two opening finals, but were then forced to travel to the MCG to play Richmond, who registered a win that can be fairly described as a technicality.

“Next year when there’s a showdown grand final between the Crows and Power it’ll certainly help strengthen our case, won’t it,” SA Premier and Port Adelaide fan Steven Marshall said.

“Adelaide Oval is absolutely world class and would make a fantastic grand final venue.”

SA Labor leader Peter Malinauskas, a keen footballer who broke three ribs this year playing full-forward for the nuggety Adelaide Uni C3 side known affectionately as “The Scum”, provided The Weekend Australian with a compelling analysis of the AFL’s Victorian bias.

Mr Malinauskas, who is also a Port Adelaide tragic, said there would be no level playing field while interstate clubs such as Port or GWS played at the MCG a couple of times a year and the big Melbourne clubs use it as their home ground.

He also noted the AFL allocated just 17,000 grand final tickets to each of the two clubs in the biggest game of the year, and called on the AFL to cut back on the suits and freeloaders who made up the remainder on grand final day.

“The AFL uses two arguments to justify the monopoly enjoyed by the MCG — tradition and capacity,” Mr Malinauskas said.

“Clearly tradition is being used to trump equity.

“And on the question of capacity, if football is about catering for the paid-up supporters who are loud and proud, then you can get 34,000 into Optus in WA or at the Adelaide Oval.

“The AFL needs to ask itself if money and revenue is more important than equity and fairness and having a truly national competition.”
Unfortunately for West Australians, they have a weak Premier who instead of fighting for a WA grand final at his shiny new stadium, sat on his hands while Eddie and co negotiated a new deal with the AFL.

Now we have to put up with 40+ years of whinging from West Australians who have no-one to blame but their dim witted leader. SAs premier is the same. Have a whinge after the fact. Typical useless politicians. They seem to have done a good job indoctrinating their own though.
 
Scott is horrible at developing juniors and that’s the reason Wells keeps topping up with mature talent. With the list he’s had he’s blown too many opportunities at a second flag to be considered a top coach in the league.
Esava is looking the goods, as is Miers, Constable will come on next year but looked good from Rd 1 to 7, Narkle has potential and Parfitt has glimpses.

What kills Scotts credibility is his tragic finals record and his ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (see 2012, 2013, 2016, 2019).
But another flag would undo a little bit of that in the next 3 years, and 2 in 5 to 7 years would put him in a good conversation.
I just can't see it happening if he continues as he will.
 

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The 2004 draft set Hawthorn up & Richmond chose Deledio & Tambling over two of Franklyn, Roughie & Lewis .... interesting attempt to rewrite history or simply muddleheaded?
If a young Tambling was drafted by Richmond these days he would probably be a star
 
Easily 2nd best coach and could well challenge Clarko in a few years by the looks of the current Richmond squad and the culture permeating around them, quite remarkable really.....
 
Esava is looking the goods, as is Miers, Constable will come on next year but looked good from Rd 1 to 7, Narkle has potential and Parfitt has glimpses.

What kills Scotts credibility is his tragic finals record and his ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (see 2012, 2013, 2016, 2019).
But another flag would undo a little bit of that in the next 3 years, and 2 in 5 to 7 years would put him in a good conversation.
I just can't see it happening if he continues as he will.
You’ve quoted 5 kids in 9 years. And of them, none are outright matchwinners. Miers had a good first first year though. Scott is horrible at developing juniors. And he chokes on the big stage.
 
Unfortunately for West Australians, they have a weak Premier who instead of fighting for a WA grand final at his shiny new stadium, sat on his hands while Eddie and co negotiated a new deal with the AFL.

Now we have to put up with 40+ years of whinging from West Australians who have no-one to blame but their dim witted leader. SAs premier is the same. Have a whinge after the fact. Typical useless politicians. They seem to have done a good job indoctrinating their own though.

Eddie wasnt involved - think you'll find WA, SA & NSW all had registered interest & the national body didnt even give them a hearing.
Great politics by the Andrews Govt, shades of Kennett & the Grand Prix. The Govt were in the room, the MCG Trust ground manager (Melbourne Cricket Club) & the AFL.
Expect some flack flying when the NRL GF location bids are in, will the Vic Govt bid more for the NRL than they are paying the AFL?
 
Dimma clearly no.2 The real question is can he or maybe Fagan catch his mentor?
Very unlikely imo., particularly given Clarko not done with yet.

Now I'm not silly enough to compare any Eagles coach with Clarko, but another of his proteges has a 65% win record over 118 games & 2 x GFs to his name, one flag, ie Adam Simpson.
Dimma has 2 flags from 2 x GFs out of 231 games & a winning record of 55%.

No argument 2 flags make Dimma no.2, but he's not a shadow of Clarko today. Simmo is the one breathing down Dimmas neck with Scotty also in the photo.
 
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Clarko deserves to be the best coach so far in the competition as it stands right now.

One thing to note though is Richmond had a very good record on that Hawks team when they were winning Premierships and Richmond were no where near as good of a team that they are now so that had to come down to good coaching.
 
Probably. But anyone calling Dimma a better coach than Clarkson is a beer drinking goldfish influenced by recency bias.

If you give the credit to Chris Scott and not his very good list. Even he is a better coach than Dimma who failed horribly for years. It took him 8 years to turn them around.

They are all kids compared to Clarko. A lot of people underselling Clarko in this thread. If you're as superficial as premierships then Malcolm Blight (who failed in 4 Grand Finals) b2b rates higher because it's b2b (your logic).
 
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The league's history is littered with talented sides which haven't done much. What's more, most of Richmond's stars were very young and still needed developing when Hardwick came around.

Hardwick started coaching in the 2010 season. At that time:

Riewoldt was a skinny 21 year old who had kicked 57 goals in 46 games. Not bad, but not amazing either. At the time I thought Richmond needed someone with a bigger presence.

Cotchin had played two injury plagued seasons, and had shown flashes of brilliance, but had three brownlow votes from 25 games.

Rance had played one season and looked like a newborn giraffe trying to play football

Houli was at Windy Hill

Edwards had played three fairly inconsistent seasons

Martin was playing his first season

In Hardwick's first season in charge, his ruckman was Angus Graham, his small forwards were Ben Nason and Andrew Collins, his key backs were Kelvin Moore and Luke McGuane (not bad players, but not a patch on Astbury and Rance) and his "livewires" were guys like Nahas and a Morton. Yes he had some young guns, but he also had a lot of crud. Richmond had no real consistent history of good recruiting or list management. Deledio was Richmond's best player by default, and he under-performed massively under Wallace. Cousins was the "big fish" and flopped.

You're right, every coach needs a good recruiter, but a good coach knows how to utilise that talent to create a team. Sides like Melbourne, Carlton, GWS etc. have had a litany of high draft picks, only to not perform quite as well or not perform really at all. Hardwick has also squeezed as much talent out of players like Broad, Grigg, Townsend, McIntosh, Ellis etc that he can. It's hard to believe though that all this is either luck or someone else's work. I remember when Hardwick started coaching (although this was a constant wish in the 90s and 00s) that I hoped someone would take Richmond to the finals. That Hardwick has won two grand finals just shows what an amazing job he's done. Richmond used to be bad at an institutional, fundamental level. I remember when they were the butt of all bigfooty jokes. Hardwick has changed that. Not singlehandedly, but he's had a major hand in it.
The other point is that even though our end of season ladder position from about 2010-2012 wasn't great, we got stuff all in terms of top-end draft picks due to the GC and GWS draft pillaging. Hardwick had to not only develop the talent he had at the footy club, but also make sure the good guys didn't leave the club (Martin, Cotch, Jack, Rance), while shrewdly trading and drafting bargain picks (Grigg, Houli, Maric, Chaplin). Exceptional job given where he started and where the club is now, particularly as it has overtaken the Hawks as a 'destination club'.
 

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Weasel words do not deny the facts. I'm not denying anything past, nor do I seek to.

As for its not changing soon, dont put your house on it & dont believe all you hear from the Melbourne media:

.... the biggest game of the year will be contested at the venue the AFL and its co-conspirators within the Victorian Labor government have declared will be the home of the AFL grand final until at least 2057.

Such inarguable and damning facts saw the emergence on Friday of a rare political unity ticket between Labor and Liberal premiers and opposition leaders from South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania, all of whom are wondering if the AFL should just drop the pretence and go back to using a “V” instead of an “A” in its name.

Leaders from these great Aussie rules states lined up to tell The Weekend Australian it was time the AFL started sharing the love when it comes not just to grand final day but match scheduling.

Tasmanian Liberal Premier Will Hodgman even questioned the entire credibility of the competition, saying there would be no true national league until footy-mad Tassie had a team of its own.

“Melbourne was actually founded by Tasmanians back in 1835,” Mr Hodgman said.

“You’d think that by now they’d show some gratitude and let us have a team in the competition.”

WA Labor Premier Mark McGowan, whose state is home to last year’s premiers, West Coast, but who barracks for the Fremantle Dockers, said he had been advocating for the return of State of Origin to celebrate the contribution a footy powerhouse such as WA had made to the national game.

He said although he appreciated the tradition argument about the MCG, the benefits of hosting the grand final could be better shared. “If the AFL did ever want to try something different, it would be hard to look past Optus Stadium — the best stadium in the country,” he said.

He echoed the sentiments of WA fans about the onerous travel demands on the state’s two clubs.

“I’m sure some WA footy fans would argue the non-Victorian clubs often get a raw deal when it comes to things like travel and fixtures. They might have a point, but I personally like our underdog status and it makes beating the Vics much, much sweeter,’’ Mr McGowan said.

The sentiments are even more hostile in SA, where the Adelaide Crows finished top in 2017, were unbeaten in their two opening finals, but were then forced to travel to the MCG to play Richmond, who registered a win that can be fairly described as a technicality.

“Next year when there’s a showdown grand final between the Crows and Power it’ll certainly help strengthen our case, won’t it,” SA Premier and Port Adelaide fan Steven Marshall said.

“Adelaide Oval is absolutely world class and would make a fantastic grand final venue.”

SA Labor leader Peter Malinauskas, a keen footballer who broke three ribs this year playing full-forward for the nuggety Adelaide Uni C3 side known affectionately as “The Scum”, provided The Weekend Australian with a compelling analysis of the AFL’s Victorian bias.

Mr Malinauskas, who is also a Port Adelaide tragic, said there would be no level playing field while interstate clubs such as Port or GWS played at the MCG a couple of times a year and the big Melbourne clubs use it as their home ground.

He also noted the AFL allocated just 17,000 grand final tickets to each of the two clubs in the biggest game of the year, and called on the AFL to cut back on the suits and freeloaders who made up the remainder on grand final day.

“The AFL uses two arguments to justify the monopoly enjoyed by the MCG — tradition and capacity,” Mr Malinauskas said.

“Clearly tradition is being used to trump equity.

“And on the question of capacity, if football is about catering for the paid-up supporters who are loud and proud, then you can get 34,000 into Optus in WA or at the Adelaide Oval.

“The AFL needs to ask itself if money and revenue is more important than equity and fairness and having a truly national competition.”
So this is why I had you on ignore...kudos to me
 
Probably. But anyone calling Dimma a better coach than Clarkson is a beer drinking goldfish influenced by recency bias.

If you give the credit to Chris Scott and not his very good list. Even he is a better coach than Dimma who failed horribly for years. It took him 8 years to turn them around.

They are all kids compared to Clarko. A lot of people underselling Clarko in this thread. If you're as superficial as premierships then Malcolm Blight (who failed in 4 Grand Finals) b2b rates higher because it's b2b (your logic).
Disagree, 1-on-1 Hardwick has always bossed Clarkson even with significantly poorer sides to work with.

Used to be a running joke at Hawthorn in the 3-peat years that the Tigers getting a shock result over the Hawks always foretold a Hawks premiership!

The only final against each other was fairly comprehensively Dimma's way too.

Dimma > Clarkson for mine
 
Eddie wasnt involved - think you'll find WA, SA & NSW all had registered interest & the national body didnt even give them a hearing.
Great politics by the Andrews Govt, shades of Kennett & the Grand Prix. The Govt were in the room, the MCG Trust ground manager (Melbourne Cricket Club) & the AFL.
Expect some flack flying when the NRL GF location bids are in, will the Vic Govt bid more for the NRL than they are paying the AFL?
Why would they?
I’ve never heard storm fans complain about the final location either.
Sure there’s probably a few, but it wouldn’t be common.
 
I think he's obviously the second best coach in the league at the moment. He could conceivably be seen as a dodgy prelim short of a threepeat, but that's not his fault really.

Clarkson is the best coach in the league but the ability to get up for 3 in a row was just as much the hunger and will of the players as it was Clarko.

If I was a Richmond supporter I'd be wondering what could have been if Dimma didn't spend far too long wasting some of their stars better years trying to emulate the Hawthorn kicking game style and focused on this selfless team pressure game sooner.
 
Disagree, 1-on-1 Hardwick has always bossed Clarkson even with significantly poorer sides to work with.

Used to be a running joke at Hawthorn in the 3-peat years that the Tigers getting a shock result over the Hawks always foretold a Hawks premiership!

The only final against each other was fairly comprehensively Dimma's way too.

Dimma > Clarkson for mine

Because those home and away games mean so much more than the premierships.

I understand being one eyed, but surely you can't be that one eyed.
 
Hardwick wether by luck or design has changed the culture of football clubs. Mindfulness , have fun and all that stuff. Obviously very comfortable where he is at the moment.
Any club looking for a new coach would be all over both of them.
 
I've read a few comments on here that the core of Richmond's premierships sides were drafted before Hardwick was coach, so a lot of the credit should go to people before him, that he came in when Richmond were already on an upward trajectory.

What do Tiger supporters think of this?
Back then those players were still young (Riewoldt, Rance, Cotchin). While Hardwick was not around drafting them, he was the one to coach and develop them. Developing the game plan for them to play their role.
 
Because those home and away games mean so much more than the premierships.

I understand being one eyed, but surely you can't be that one eyed.
Sorry, do you have reason to suggest 1-on-1 Clarko has bested Dimma over the journey?

I mentioned the only big game the 2 clubs have ever played, a QF, when all the talk was of the Wiley old master coach and his tricks turning the tables, it just didn't eventuate.
 
Sorry, do you have reason to suggest 1-on-1 Clarko has bested Dimma over the journey?

I mentioned the only big game the 2 clubs have ever played, a QF, when all the talk was of the Wiley old master coach and his tricks turning the tables, it just didn't eventuate.

That's not the question though, the question is who is the better coach.

Hardwick is still the only coach ever to be eliminated from finals by the 9th placed team. I'm not holding his woeful record against Brad Scott against him either.
 
Probably. But anyone calling Dimma a better coach than Clarkson is a beer drinking goldfish influenced by recency bias.

If you give the credit to Chris Scott and not his very good list. Even he is a better coach than Dimma who failed horribly for years. It took him 8 years to turn them around.

They are all kids compared to Clarko. A lot of people underselling Clarko in this thread. If you're as superficial as premierships then Malcolm Blight (who failed in 4 Grand Finals) b2b rates higher because it's b2b (your logic).
Are you RedVest4 or Ricketz ? That stench of Geelong oozes from you.
 
Now I'm not silly enough to compare any Eagles coach with Clarko, but another of his proteges has a 65% win record over 118 games & 2 x GFs to his name, one flag, ie Adam Simpson.
Dimma has 2 flags from 2 x GFs out of 231 games & a winning record of 55%.

No argument 2 flags make Dimma no.2, but he's not a shadow of Clarko today. Simmo is the one breathing down Dimmas neck with Scotty also in the photo.
I rate Simpson very highly. Scott not so much.

What Scott has going for him is amazing longevity, he has kept the Cats up in SF/PF final territory for close to a decade, that's got to be respected. However in terms of his quoted W percentage, it's largely to do with the fact that unlike Clarko or Hardwick, Scott did not inherit a dud group. Before Scott Cats had gone Flag, GF, Flag, GF. He took on a champion team and got them there again in 2011. Since that however, his finals record has been poor.

I would say Scott trended down, while the others trended up.
 

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