Coach Is Hardwick now the second best coach in the league behind Clarkson?

[zhoung]

The league's history is littered with talented sides which haven't done much. What's more, most of Richmond's stars were very young and still needed developing when Hardwick came around.

Hardwick started coaching in the 2010 season. At that time:

Riewoldt was a skinny 21 year old who had kicked 57 goals in 46 games. Not bad, but not amazing either. At the time I thought Richmond needed someone with a bigger presence.

Cotchin had played two injury plagued seasons, and had shown flashes of brilliance, but had three brownlow votes from 25 games.

Rance had played one season and looked like a newborn giraffe trying to play football

Houli was at Windy Hill

Edwards had played three fairly inconsistent seasons

Martin was playing his first season

In Hardwick's first season in charge, his ruckman was Angus Graham, his small forwards were Ben Nason and Andrew Collins, his key backs were Kelvin Moore and Luke McGuane (not bad players, but not a patch on Astbury and Rance) and his "livewires" were guys like Nahas and a Morton. Yes he had some young guns, but he also had a lot of crud. Richmond had no real consistent history of good recruiting or list management. Deledio was Richmond's best player by default, and he under-performed massively under Wallace. Cousins was the "big fish" and flopped.

You're right, every coach needs a good recruiter, but a good coach knows how to utilise that talent to create a team. Sides like Melbourne, Carlton, GWS etc. have had a litany of high draft picks, only to not perform quite as well or not perform really at all. Hardwick has also squeezed as much talent out of players like Broad, Grigg, Townsend, McIntosh, Ellis etc that he can. It's hard to believe though that all this is either luck or someone else's work. I remember when Hardwick started coaching (although this was a constant wish in the 90s and 00s) that I hoped someone would take Richmond to the finals. That Hardwick has won two grand finals just shows what an amazing job he's done. Richmond used to be bad at an institutional, fundamental level. I remember when they were the butt of all bigfooty jokes. Hardwick has changed that. Not singlehandedly, but he's had a major hand in it.

This is what it’s about as a supporter, thick and thin. On the chance you may one day make it to the top and win the big dance.

Unfortunately many Richmond supporters have turned the main board into a mini bay 13, where one upmanship and a we’re great and your s**t type of mentality prevails.

Not sure if they are the long suffering ones or more recent bolt ons with no grasp on history and the fact success isn’t a given.

This is as open, honest and candid as I can remember hearing any Richmond supporter in a long time, so hats of to you.

Richo83 your team may be one of our closest rivals and the colours may not agree with me, but well done to you and your team.

Congratulations, Richmond 2019 Premiers.

 

[blaisee]

Not sure if Dimma is the 2nd best coach

The other bloke hasn’t won a final in 4 years

 

[captain cotch 9]

Clearly the best coach since the end of 2016

 

[Surely Paul]

I feel like you have trouble understanding what I am saying. Scott with 2 flags (currently has 1) puts him above Hardwick with 2 flags based on W/L etc.

Also, clap back when Scott loses a final to a team that finished the season in 9th.

Thanks m8.

Commiserations.

 

[WillHayward]

Hardwick is better than Clarkson.

Clarkson only won his flags due to being on top at a time the expansion clubs came in and other clubs couldn't top up.

Also was handed top end talent on a platter

We are seeing now under an even playing field hawks finish 12th in two of the past three seasons.

How many top 10 draft picks have the Hawks had in the last decade?

Zero? One?

 

[M Malice]

Didn't Chris Fagan get coach of the year?

 

[blaisee]

I feel like you have trouble understanding what I am saying. Scott with 2 flags (currently has 1) puts him above Hardwick with 2 flags based on W/L etc.

Also, clap back when Scott loses a final to a team that finished the season in 9th.

Thanks m8.

I am really sorry Richmond have hurt you so much.

Clearly it has had a profound effect on you

So sorry again

 

[And_ROOS]

I am really sorry Richmond have hurt you so much.

Clearly it has had a profound effect on you

So sorry again

I am really sorry I had to do the equivalent of talking slowly for your fellow supporters. And what hurt exactly? I've seen my team do worse to yours than yours has done to mine

 

[BF Tiger]

I am really sorry I had to do the equivalent of talking slowly for your fellow supporters. And what hurt exactly? I've seen my team do worse to yours than yours has done to mine

Massive H&A losses when we were rubbish have nothing on beating Geelong in finals and going on to win the flag.

 

[And_ROOS]

Massive H&A losses when we were rubbish have nothing on beating Geelong in finals and going on to win the flag.

Massive home and away win got the ball rolling for the current record margin in an AFL grand final

 

[Catsnlakers]

Used to be a running joke at Hawthorn in the 3-peat years that the Tigers getting a shock result over the Hawks always foretold a Hawks premiership!
Dimma > Clarkson for mine

Both factually incorrect, I think you will find the Hawks beat the Tigers easily in 2014. And there is no chance that Hardwick is a superior coach to Clarkson. Clarkson’s ability to change game styles & keep finding ways for his club to stay relevant is far above Hardwick’s. Hardwick is a much better comparison to Mark Thompson, who had a similar history in nearly getting fired & then finding a game style to suit his personnel at the time.

 

[Catsnlakers]

Not sure if Dimma is the 2nd best coach

The other bloke hasn’t won a final in 4 years

Hardwick didn’t win a final in his first seven years?.... Selective stats can be used any way you want them to be, I dislike Clarkson ( & that whole club ) more than any other, but he still well & truly holds the mantle as the best.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Hardwick didn’t win a final in his first seven years?.... Selective stats can be used any way you want them to be, I dislike Clarkson ( & that whole club ) more than any other, but he still well & truly holds the mantle as the best.

Yeah dunno, just reckon pound for pound Hardwick gets more out of a list. He could get the worser list to a flag, if you know what I mean.

Clarko suffers a bit by having had a ridiculous amount of talent at his disposal until a couple of years ago

 

[blaisee]

I am really sorry I had to do the equivalent of talking slowly for your fellow supporters. And what hurt exactly? I've seen my team do worse to yours than yours has done to mine

Look mate it is clear the way we have ended Geelongs last two finals campaigns has really caused some psychological damage to cats fans

There is always next year, and I am sure with the huge upside in Harry Taylor, Ablett and Danger and Selwood, a strong finals performance will be just around the corner .

 

[blaisee]

Hardwick didn’t win a final in his first seven years?.... Selective stats can be used any way you want them to be, I dislike Clarkson ( & that whole club ) more than any other, but he still well & truly holds the mantle as the best.

I am not sure what that has to do with now?

Dimma has won two flags and finished minor premier in the last 3 years, Clarko in the same time period has not won a final, and has struggled transitioning the team.

This is not even close.

 

[Sub_Zero]

Yeah dunno, just reckon pound for pound Hardwick gets more out of a list. He could get the worser list to a flag, if you know what I mean.

Clarko suffers a bit by having had a ridiculous amount of talent at his disposal until a couple of years ago

Wtf does that even mean?

 

[schmuttt]

People forget how s**t Richmond were when Hardwick took over.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Wtf does that even mean?

think of the worst list you reckon Clarko could get to a flag..

I reckon Hardwick and Bevo could get a worse list than that a flag.

 

[Marcel Proust]

People forget how s**t Richmond were when Hardwick took over.

"worse than fitzory"

 

[Hawk_francais]

Considering Richmond’s flags aren’t an accident of history, you could probably mount an argument that he’s first best.

Hardwick is better than Clarkson.

Clarkson only won his flags due to being on top at a time the expansion clubs came in and other clubs couldn't top up.

Also was handed top end talent on a platter

We are seeing now under an even playing field hawks finish 12th in two of the past three seasons.

You guys do know that the more you try to talk down all those flags the more we enjoy them? It also has the pleasing side effect of making your club look even more like a bitter, loser-filled swamp than it currently is.

 

[juss]

Didn't Chris Fagan get coach of the year?

With respect to Fagan, he hasn't even won a final. He's not in contention for the 2nd best here.

 

[Knox Harrington]

You guys do know that the more you try to talk down all those flags the more we enjoy them? It also has the pleasing side effect of making your club look even more like a bitter, loser-filled swamp than it currently is.

Alistair Clarkson is the Forest Gump of afl coaching.
Just showed up in the right place at the right time as it happened round him

 

[Hawk_francais]

Alistair Clarkson is the Forest Gump of afl coaching.
Just showed up in the right place at the right time as it happened round him

Given you don't spell his name correctly, I'll take it to mean you don't know much else about him either.

Edit: you also misspelled 'Forrest Gump'.

 

[M Malice]

With respect to Fagan, he hasn't even won a final. He's not in contention for the 2nd best here.

I thought the in my post would have been enough to portray my attempted humorous sarcasm.

 

[HairyO]

Clarko
Hardwick
Simpson

Hard to argue with that order. Bevo not far behind given where he got a Dogs list few rated.

Fagan has turned around a rabble in only a couple of years.

Scott has a strong win loss but finals performances really shits the bed.

Longmire was up there but seems lost at the moment.