A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[Pippen94]

1. The Australian C. Lacey 27.9

The Principal of Rooty Hill HS (42 kms west of Sydney, near Mt Druitt) discusses the impact of GWS in her school & area.

According to the 2016 Census, persons who described themselves as from "Australian" background were 13.2%; form "English" background 12.2%; & from "Filipino" background 18%. 55% were born overseas.

An interesting snapshot of GR AF in WS in 2009, & now.

"In the region there is now at least junior club in each of the west's 14 local government areas form just two or three in the region when work began in 2009 to secure the code's new licence.
Since the introduction of the Giants into the AFL competition at the start of 2012, registered participants in NSW and the ACT have grown by 105 per cent to 280,000. In the same period, club teams have grown from just under 1200 to a little over 2000".

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

The growth of AF in WS, & other parts of NSW, has been very significant in the last 10 years. There are now, in Sydney only, c. 13,000 regd jnr AF club players from U9- U17 (this 13,000 does not include players from 5 y.o.-8 y.o., where many thousands are in Club Auskick).

In the WS in 2012, there were 67 AF teams from U10 - U17; in 2019, over 174 (additional WS teams play in the Swans Zone, for higher competition).
In the Swans Sydney Zone in 2012, there were 210 teams; in 2019, 491 teams.
(Neither figures include the many thousands playing Club Auskick)

From the late 1990's, AFL drafting of players from the AF heartland of sthn. NSW & the ACT had crashed to very low nos- but since 2011, good Draft nos. have occurred. In 2019, there are c. 100 players born in NSW, ACT & Qld on AFL lists (c. 50 from NSW & ACT).

GR AF is almost in a position of "critical mass" in all areas of Sydney ie an AF club less than 15 minute drive from home. When this happens, the "convenience factor" will deliver further big increase in nos.
It is in the youngest age groups where AF is having most growth. Combined with the significant GR AF growth in primary & secondary schools (public & private), AF is expected to continue its recent strong growth in the next 10 years. If this occurs, GR AF will be in a very strong position in NSW & ACT by 2029.

2. Camden, in far SW Sydney, was, unusually, promoted to the senior Sydney FL Premier Division in 2019- even though, in 2018, it only finished 3rd in Platinum Division (below Premier).
Southern Power, in Sydney's south- Sutherland, won its Platinum Seniors & Reserve GF's in 2019, & will be promoted to Premier Div. in 2020. Promotion is not automatic from Platinum to Premier each year for GF winners.

3. FULL Pimco article on GWS funding, from The Australian. re my post #1162
Click on journalist P. Williams' tweet 26.9 for complete story.

Perry Williams (@perrybwilliams) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from Perry Williams (@perrybwilliams). Senior Business Reporter at The Australian. Dad, Arsenal fan. Email williamsp@theaustralian.com.au. Sydney, Australia

twitter.com

EDIT:
It's actually 62 players on AFL lists from NSW/ACT in 2019- this is massive!
There are also some guns from NSW/ACT being highlighted for the 2019 Draft. The AFL has no choice but to focus on 52% of the Aust. population, particularly when one considers the long term, significant decline in GR male RL & RU regd. comp. players.

There would have been far less just prior to GWS creation, the GWS & Swans Academies, with their essential GWS & Swans branding/link to local tribalism, have been brilliant- a game-changer (figuratively & literally).

Thanks, Prof, for your link below- I don't know how I missed your Thread.

Yes, I agree, with your view on the SW. IMO, Campbelltown (42 km from CBD) would be the best location if there was a combined South Sydney Canberra team- a reasonable drive from the ACT; &, also, the new Club should play some games in Wollongong, to pick up the Illawarra & South Coast. I think some Melb. Clubs would be encouraged (for $) to play Home games in Wollongong, if it had a suitable ground.

Do you actually believe this?

 

[Colonial]

Do you actually believe this?

Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise Pipp?

Or will you just run away. Again.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise Pipp?

Or will you just run away. Again.

Pippen is trolling BF, over many BF Threads. Other posters have said he is a RL & soccer fan, & writes on their websites.

When I, & others have put questions to him, rebutting his comments, he doesn't specifically address the questions and/or issues.

Some RL & soccer fans become extremely agitated when provided with objective evidence & data that GR AF is growing strongly in Sydney & NSW...even some NSW RL, RU & soccer officials, journalists & ex professional players have admitted, publicly, this AF strong growth. On 4.9.19 on WWOS, P. Gould (who, employed by Penrith recently, has extensive GR RL experience in Sydney's WS) said "GWS will become a juggernaut".

 

[Colonial]

Pippen is trolling BF, over many BF Threads. Other posters have said he is a RL & soccer fan, & writes on their websites.

When I, & others have put questions to him, rebutting his comments, he doesn't specifically address the questions.

Some RL & soccer fans became extremely agitated when provided with objective evidence & data that GR AF is growing Sydney...even some RL, RU & soccer officials, journalists & ex professional players have admitted, publicly, this AF growth. On 4.9.19 on WWOS, P. Gould (who, employed by Penrith recently, has extensive GR RL experience in Sydney's WS) said "GWS will become a juggernaut".

Yep. Just amuses me.

Not an NRL fan supposedly. The latest going theory is a Wanderer. Which is even more amusing.

 

[Pippen94]

I haven't run from anything. I have clearly stated that any growth is from small base. Participation is nothing compared to soccer. For every team there is an entire soccer competition & that is not including indoor, social, office etc.
If you were honest you'd acknowledge increase in numbers is growth of women's game south of Barassi line.

 

[Pippen94]

Outsiders over estimating popularity of sport in Sydney. I'd love for my team to be on main tv channel every week, but the interest isn't there.

 

[Colonial]

I haven't run from anything. I have clearly stated that any growth is from small base. Participation is nothing compared to soccer. For every team there is an entire soccer competition & that is not including indoor, social, office etc.
If you were honest you'd acknowledge increase in numbers is growth of women's game south of Barassi line.

Really? Everytime I've questioned your delusions you've bolted from a thread and then returned much much later (If at all) with another little tidbit of nonsense.

I mean I get things wrong, often, but can at least admit that.

So that's a no on the evidence when you shitcanned BBTT?

Where has anyone said participation rates rival soccer in Sydney?

Honest? Lol Still awaiting this evidence "swans"fan.

 

[Colonial]

Outsiders over estimating popularity of sport in Sydney. I'd love for my team to be on main tv channel every week, but the interest isn't there.

You're just hoping a new stadium saves your lot.

 

[The_Wookie]

I haven't run from anything. I have clearly stated that any growth is from small base. Participation is nothing compared to soccer. For every team there is an entire soccer competition & that is not including indoor, social, office etc.
If you were honest you'd acknowledge increase in numbers is growth of women's game south of Barassi line.

If you werre honest youd admit that you know nothing about the AFL numbers at all.

And as for participation being nothing compared to soccer, the outdoor figures arent as far apart as people assume.

 

[The_Wookie]

Outsiders over estimating popularity of sport in Sydney. I'd love for my team to be on main tv channel every week, but the interest isn't there.

Id love for my sport to be just a glorified tv show too, but we cant all have what we want.

 

[Pippen94]

If you werre honest youd admit that you know nothing about the AFL numbers at all.

And as for participation being nothing compared to soccer, the outdoor figures arent as far apart as people assume.

If numbers in Sydney are anywhere near comparable then they're completely fake.

 

[The_Wookie]

If numbers in Sydney are anywhere near comparable then they're completely fake.

I think youd say that regardless.

 

[Rob]

Not sure it's overly productive to compare participation numbers in Sydney to soccer - and that's for any other sport, not just footy. A few years ago half of all Australian soccer players were from NSW, and I doubt that's changed. As a participation sport it's massive, more so there than anywhere else. Every sport is going to look small compared to it.

TBH, comparing numbers to any other sport is pretty much a waste of time anyway. If growth remains strong, then they can consider that a success. It shouldn't matter what other sports do.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The Australian B. Horne 27.9.19

"Kia Australia boss Damien Meredith has made the bold prediction that GWS Giants can become the biggest sporting club in the country...There is still a belief that Sydney's money lives in the CBD, eastern suburbs and lower north shore, but Kia is adamant the west is the biggest untapped market in Australia...over the decades...magic can happen...".

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

AFR P. Durkin 28.9.19

MLC Wealth CEO G. Lloyd & self-described "GWS Super fan" said

"I think we will get to 40,000 members next year, regardless of what happens on Saturday".
GWS CEO D. Mattthews, after the GF, has made a similar comment he believes GWS will, possibly, reach 40,0000 members in 2020.

A league of their own: AFL draws new boundaries

Saturday's AFL grand final will be a story of vindication and redemption but the two final teams know there is more at stake too.

www.afr.com

(Behind paywall- click on "Esc" tab, on far left of keyboard, IMMEDIATELY after article appears, to open this)

 

[Pippen94]

The Australian B. Horne 27.9.19

"Kia Australia boss Damien Meredith has made the bold prediction that GWS Giants can become the biggest sporting club in the country...There is still a belief that Sydney's money lives in the CBD, eastern suburbs and lower north shore, but Kia is adamant the west is the biggest untapped market in Australia...over the decades...magic can happen...".

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

AFR P. Durkin 28.9.19

MLC Wealth CEO G. Lloyd & self-described "GWS Super fan" said

"I think we will get to 40,000 members next year, regardless of what happens on Saturday".
GWS CEO D. Mattthews, after the GF, has made a similar comment he believes GWS will, possibly, reach 40,0000 members in 2020.

A league of their own: AFL draws new boundaries

Saturday's AFL grand final will be a story of vindication and redemption but the two final teams know there is more at stake too.

www.afr.com

(Behind paywall- click on "Esc" tab, on far left of keyboard, IMMEDIATELY after article appears, to open this)

The Australian must love gws - so many articles. Never questions how a club with small crowds & little ratings can have so many members, tho.

 

[Pippen94]

Not sure it's overly productive to compare participation numbers in Sydney to soccer - and that's for any other sport, not just footy. A few years ago half of all Australian soccer players were from NSW, and I doubt that's changed. As a participation sport it's massive, more so there than anywhere else. Every sport is going to look small compared to it.

TBH, comparing numbers to any other sport is pretty much a waste of time anyway. If growth remains strong, then they can consider that a success. It shouldn't matter what other sports do.

Then don't boast about participation numbers.

 

[Rob]

Then don't boast about participation numbers.

Not that I did it in any case, but why not?

 

[Colonial]

The Australian must love gws - so many articles. Never questions how a club with small crowds & little ratings can have so many members, tho.

Could say that about every club. Especially your baby the Wanderers.

 

[Colonial]

Then don't boast about participation numbers.

It's boasting about growth.

 

[The_Wookie]

Then don't boast about participation numbers.

Sure. Just as soon as league stops claiming Touch folks as its own participants.

 

[NoobPie]

Sure. Just as soon as league stops claiming Touch folks as its own participants.

Pippen is a soccer fan it has been established

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. It is too commercially risky for the AFL not to have a strong market share in Sydney, population c. 8,000,000, by 2050. The AFL has NO choice but to, eventually (perhaps c. 2035), have 3rd team in wealthy & influential Sydney.

Historically, the hourly rate of prime time advertising in Sydney is the most expensive in Australia- more than Melbourne, even though the populations have become very close. The AFL must capture a much higher % of these Sydney premium $ rates- failure to do so "enriches/empowers" its sporting competitors, who will then be more able to attack the AFL.
Sydney will indefinitely retain its higher advertising status over Melbourne, even when programs have similar ratings in both cities (ie Sydney has the most valuable advertising "per 1000 person rating unit" in Australia- because Sydney property prices has given it a greater median wealth than Melbourne).

I have not been able to locate the exact costs of Aust. advertising rates per 1000 people, for each capital city. This link, however, re USA rates, explains the reasoning for advertisers paying higher rates in different cities.
"Television advertising is priced on a Cost-Per-Thousand (CPM) basis, which is the cost for your ad to be seen by 1,000 people. The CPM varies widely, depending on a few different factors, the biggest of which is location (both my emphases)".

Everything You Need to Know About TV Advertising Costs

From costs for TV ad production to commercial broadcast prices, here’s everything you need to know about TV advertising costs in 2023.

fitsmallbusiness.com

At the opposite end of desirability for advertisers is the Tas. market- it is all Regional (ie less valuable cf. metro), & has the 2nd lowest (to the NT) per capita median wealth in Aust.
Tas. will, however, probably be granted soon a provisional licence to join the AFL, because the AFL desires to restore its once fabled VFL/AFL recruitment goldmine of champions/great players (assuming its Bid can convince the AFL it can sustain revenues of $40,000,000 pa).

The AFL must regain its status (held until the 1980's, & intro of Canberra Raiders NRL) as the most popular code in Canberra, Aust.'s centre of power: via a South Sydney Canberra AFL team.
Canberra, considered a Regional advertising market, also has Aust.'s highest median wages (due to its large no. of well paid public servants).

Canberra has it pretty good compared to rest of Australia, a new report says

Canberra has it pretty good compared to rest of Australia, a new report says

www.canberratimes.com.au

2. This link is a snapshot revealing the NSW female GR AF significant growth in 2018 "...NSW alone seeing 18,000 new female players joining the ranks".
(For AF, most of this 18,000 increase is rubbery. Like all sports' organisations in Aust., the majority of this 18,000 increase does not represent females playing in Club or school AF competitions, the most important nos.)

More importantly, however, in 2019 " ...female participation rates in registered competitions have risen by more than 17% from 2018 to 2019, even after substantial growth in the past few years". The female GR AF boom in NSW is continuing.

AFLW Latest News - AFL.com.au/aflw

Latest breaking AFLW news from the official website of the Australian Football League.

womens.afl

As an example of the wisdom/necessity for the AFL to "follow the money in Sydney", have a glance at the sponsors of the affluent Mosman area jnr AF club!
The Mosman Swans have c. 550 players, not including Auskick, & are growing significantly.

Home | Mosman Swans AFL Football Club

Mosman Swans Junior Australian Football Clubs is a community organisation run by volunteers. We provide AFL programs for boys and girls from four through seventeen. All players are welcome, whether experienced or new to the fun and excitement of AFL.

www.mosmanswans.com.au

Also, re the other 2 sponsors listed

- Cadence built this 4 level, 6 BR modest waterfront home on Sydney'e northern beaches- worth c. $6,000,000+?

https://www.homestolove.com.au/home-on-sydneys-northern-beaches-by-cadence-and-co-5837

-Dixon Advisory are top end financial advisors

 

[The_Reaper]

Could a north shore/warringah team play a couple of matches a year in Newcastle?

 

[Kwality]

Outsiders over estimating popularity of sport in Sydney

Are there any numbers comparing sports viewing in the various market segments. From my own experience sport is far more widely discussed in Melbourne compared to Sydney.
Participation is a different issue IMHO.
Bums on seats different again.

 

[abcde12345]

Could a north shore/warringah team play a couple of matches a year in Newcastle?

Depends what they could theoretically get out of it. GWS and Canberra works so well because, not only does the ACT government give the Giants $2.3m per year for 3 games, but the Giants' stadium is unavailable for a chunk of time over Easter. Very synergistic relationship so it makes a lot of sense.

I doubt the NSW state government would be as inclined to offer a deal like the ACT or TAS governments are. They would just be moving it from one city in the state to another. You'd imagine the additional benefits to the state would be negligible. NSW gov would also be required to develop an acceptable stadium both north of the harbour and in Newcastle. Additional costs and limited extra benefits for them suggest it would probably unlikely IMO.