Rumour Adelaide Crows camp

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Listening to CEY the other day was really uncomfortable. I work in mental health and I speak to people every day who are recounting traumatic and/or very confronting situations and events from their past and the way he was struggling through retelling even the most basic and surface level aspects of that camp was very worrying. I really hope that a player or two comes forward and seeks to hold the club accountable for negligence. To employ pseudo psychologists who are not professionally registered to run this camp (and with a lack of oversight at the camp) is difficult to fathom. I cannot understand why the club has not been more transparent about the nature of this camp because it is clear as day that it has had a significant impact on players to this current day.

To those in this thread who say "suck it up and get over it" you honestly have no idea what you're talking about and are simply out of your depth when it comes to understandings how certain experiences and situations can have an adverse impact on a person psychologically. It sounds like this camp was specifically designed with various sensory deprivation techniques to produce an impact on a person and to make them feel distressed and disoriented. If that knob Burton was the guy behind this I cannot see how he has a job. He will never get another job in the AFL
 
Foucault1989 said:
Listening to CEY the other day was really uncomfortable. I work in mental health and I speak to people every day who are recounting traumatic and/or very confronting situations and events from their past and the way he was struggling through retelling even the most basic and surface level aspects of that camp was very worrying. I really hope that a player or two comes forward and seeks to hold the club accountable for negligence. To employ pseudo psychologists who are not professionally registered to run this camp (and with a lack of oversight at the camp) is difficult to fathom. I cannot understand why the club has not been more transparent about the nature of this camp because it is clear as day that it has had a significant impact on players to this current day.

To those in this thread who say "suck it up and get over it" you honestly have no idea what you're talking about and are simply out of your depth when it comes to understandings how certain experiences and situations can have an adverse impact on a person psychologically. It sounds like this camp was specifically designed with various sensory deprivation techniques to produce an impact on a person and to make them feel distressed and disoriented. If that knob Burton was the guy behind this I cannot see how he has a job. He will never get another job in the AFL
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No one says 'get over it suck it up' when things are legitimately bad. Most people who don't jump at shadows and use common sense accept the fact IF things were as bad as some depict here the AFLPA would know, details would have been leaked etc. 2 years on and no one has any specifics. None at all?

I want Burton gone as much as anyone + doing this camp was obviously a stupid idea but it's quite clearly being used as a scapegoat. IF things were that bad it'd be known by now...

Maybe the reason he was vague in the interview are because it is a bit overblown?
 

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Farm Boy said:
Sounds like a productive camp. I like their style. They are trying to make their players uncomfortable, and be able to adapt to any environment, to get out of their routine and handle obstacles as they arise. Its a smart way to train. Should hold the crows in good stead.
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This held up well
 
Foucault1989 said:
Listening to CEY the other day was really uncomfortable. I work in mental health and I speak to people every day who are recounting traumatic and/or very confronting situations and events from their past and the way he was struggling through retelling even the most basic and surface level aspects of that camp was very worrying. I really hope that a player or two comes forward and seeks to hold the club accountable for negligence. To employ pseudo psychologists who are not professionally registered to run this camp (and with a lack of oversight at the camp) is difficult to fathom. I cannot understand why the club has not been more transparent about the nature of this camp because it is clear as day that it has had a significant impact on players to this current day.

To those in this thread who say "suck it up and get over it" you honestly have no idea what you're talking about and are simply out of your depth when it comes to understandings how certain experiences and situations can have an adverse impact on a person psychologically. It sounds like this camp was specifically designed with various sensory deprivation techniques to produce an impact on a person and to make them feel distressed and disoriented. If that knob Burton was the guy behind this I cannot see how he has a job. He will never get another job in the AFL
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From what I have heard the actual camp and what happened on it wasn't really the issue as such, so the issue wasn't sensory deprivation or any like that, it was more that it destroyed trust within the playing group to a point and really destroyed trust between the players and the coaches and staff.
There where certain deeply personal things that Collective Minds used on the camp that the effected players did not volunteer and CMs wouldn't have had any knowledge off unless informed by the Club/Coaches. This obviously didn't go down well with a lot of players.
The players were also in three groups (one of the reasons why some liked the camp and other hated it, i.e different groups) and were supposedly not allowed to share anything between the groups.

So in short instead of bringing the group together it actually divided it more and completely destroyed the relationship with certain members of staff and certain players. And this is really the big issue and why it has lingered as long as it has, and has not been helped with the lack of accountability of certain people involved.
 
bates121 said:
From what I have heard the actual camp and what happened on it wasn't really the issue as such, so the issue wasn't sensory deprivation or any like that, it was more that it destroyed trust within the playing group to a point and really destroyed trust between the players and the coaches and staff.
There where certain deeply personal things that Collective Minds used on the camp that the effected players did not volunteer and CMs wouldn't have had any knowledge off unless informed by the Club/Coaches. This obviously didn't go down well with a lot of players.
The players were also in three groups (one of the reasons why some liked the camp and other hated it, i.e different groups) and were supposedly not allowed to share anything between the groups.

So in short instead of bringing the group together it actually divided it more and completely destroyed the relationship with certain members of staff and certain players. And this is really the big issue and why it has lingered as long as it has, and has not been helped with the lack of accountability of certain people involved.
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very strange
 
bates121 said:
From what I have heard the actual camp and what happened on it wasn't really the issue as such, so the issue wasn't sensory deprivation or any like that, it was more that it destroyed trust within the playing group to a point and really destroyed trust between the players and the coaches and staff.
There where certain deeply personal things that Collective Minds used on the camp that the effected players did not volunteer and CMs wouldn't have had any knowledge off unless informed by the Club/Coaches. This obviously didn't go down well with a lot of players.
The players were also in three groups (one of the reasons why some liked the camp and other hated it, i.e different groups) and were supposedly not allowed to share anything between the groups.

So in short instead of bringing the group together it actually divided it more and completely destroyed the relationship with certain members of staff and certain players. And this is really the big issue and why it has lingered as long as it has, and has not been helped with the lack of accountability of certain people involved.
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Fair analysis. I meant sensory deprivation in being put on a bus blindfolded with the Richmond song blaring
 
PenfoldsFan said:
I think this camp is being used as a scapegoat.
I've no doubt it played a big part in what has transpired, but I think the issue goes much deeper.

Lets not forget, this group only a few years ago went through something which no other group has had to experience, waking up to find out that a very respected member of their club had been murdered, there is no doubt in my mind that this started the ball rolling. The AFL giving them a week off was a good gesture, but was it really enough, unfortunately the nature of the beast requires that this was about all they could have and I seriously doubt it was enough to help the grieving process they needed.
The heartbreak of falling over at the last hurdle in 2017 tipped them over the edge, especially given they would have had what happened as a driving factor to reach the top.

I don't think the club or Collective minds meant to do the damage that has been done, I just don't think the playing group were ready to pick up the pieces and move on so quick, hell, if you ask me, even making the GF was a monumental achievement considering where they were a couple of years prior, and that should have been enough, however, that's not how sport works, your always looking to go that one step further and so the club rather than let them mourn and heal from the period of turmoil, pushed on.
The camp is merely the straw that broke the camels back for mine, it was only a matter of time in reality.
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This is at least partially true. I believe it began towards half time of the GF when the players lost control and turned on each other.

The first report I heard on radio day 1 of preseason - "the players have come back unfit"
 
Foucault1989 said:
Fair analysis. I meant sensory deprivation in being put on a bus blindfolded with the Richmond song blaring
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Yeah but they wasn't an issue for the players, or any of the stuff they did, hence why the Afl investigation can back all good. It was more about what was said in one group about certain players that could only have come from the crows staff.
This was an issue between the staff and the players, and its the reason no one talks about it in any detail as no one wants what was said made public.

Everyone is looking for a oh they got tied to a tree naked that's why they are all upset moment when its not about that at all.
 
burge13 said:
No one says 'get over it suck it up' when things are legitimately bad. Most people who don't jump at shadows and use common sense accept the fact IF things were as bad as some depict here the AFLPA would know, details would have been leaked etc. 2 years on and no one has any specifics. None at all?

I want Burton gone as much as anyone + doing this camp was obviously a stupid idea but it's quite clearly being used as a scapegoat. IF things were that bad it'd be known by now...

Maybe the reason he was vague in the interview are because it is a bit overblown?
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From what I heard, the players and everyone involved signed NDA's. Would make it hard to actually go into any sort of detail.
 

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Jcpdragonx said:
This is at least partially true. I believe it began towards half time of the GF when the players lost control and turned on each other.

The first report I heard on radio day 1 of preseason - "the players have come back unfit"
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Didn't like Adelaide's chances even before the game started. Tex was giving the final address to the players on the ground and there was nothing positive at all in his body language. He was laying down the law; more threatening than anything.

I was 3000kms away but that's how I read it and to hear that they were arguing before half time is no surprise.
 
My name geoff said:
From what I heard, the players and everyone involved signed NDA's. Would make it hard to actually go into any sort of detail.
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NDA's in this situation wouldn't be worth the paper they're written on if there is any whiff of abuse misconduct, lack of care or irresponsibility from those who conducted the camp. NDA's aren't valid ways of covering up damaging personal experiences - the intention of NDA's is to protect the interests of relevant parties when a settlement or agreement has been reached. They can't be used to prevent somebody from taking action against an offender, and they can't be agreed to before the fact, otherwise the players wouldn't know what they were going to be prevented from revealing. I'm not saying this means anything in the context of the Adelaide camp, but one would hope that players haven't been threatened legally regarding their experiences on the camp. They have every right to tell their story. Collective Minds might try to shut it down by accusing them of unauthorised sharing of intellectual property, but if a player wanted to tell their specific grievances regarding how they were treated by CM, no court would uphold an NDA on such flimsy grounds. The emphasis would be on the players' experience, not the theory behind CM's program.
 
Ando727 said:
NDA's in this situation wouldn't be worth the paper they're written on if there is any whiff of abuse misconduct, lack of care or irresponsibility from those who conducted the camp. NDA's aren't valid ways of covering up damaging personal experiences - the intention of NDA's is to protect the interests of relevant parties when a settlement or agreement has been reached. They can't be used to prevent somebody from taking action against an offender, and they can't be agreed to before the fact, otherwise the players wouldn't know what they were going to be prevented from revealing. I'm not saying this means anything in the context of the Adelaide camp, but one would hope that players haven't been threatened legally regarding their experiences on the camp. They have every right to tell their story. Collective Minds might try to shut it down by accusing them of unauthorised sharing of intellectual property, but if a player wanted to tell their specific grievances regarding how they were treated by CM, no court would uphold an NDA on such flimsy grounds. The emphasis would be on the players' experience, not the theory behind CM's program.
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I'm no lawyer, but I would imagine that collective minds would have provided a scope of works or similar which would have outlined what they were doing on the camp before the club agreed to go on the camp. I wouldn't have thought that misconduct on behalf of collective minds would be grounds for breaking any such agreement.
 
Current issues faced by AFC have almost nothing to do with the actual camp itself. From a player perspective it’s entirely about personal grievances stemming from the camp being completely ignored /glossed over by the club. Given the way it was handled in the aftermath it’s not hard to see why half the playing group thinks the club doesn’t give two shits about them as people.

If Burton & co fronted the playing group, put their hands up and admitted they screwed up there wouldn’t even be an issue at present. The desperate attempts from those behind the scenes to save face at the expense of the players has led to this current state of affairs. It’s a recipe for disaster when a club has people in power who prioritise remaining untouchable themselves over the club itself.

The fact no heads have rolled after two whole years of discontent speaks volumes. Just an extremely poorly run club that’s doomed for a long stint in the wilderness unless a full scale clean out occurs after the review.
 
kozi said:
Current issues faced by AFC have almost nothing to do with the actual camp itself. From a player perspective it’s entirely about personal grievances stemming from the camp being completely ignored /glossed over by the club. Given the way it was handled in the aftermath it’s not hard to see why half the playing group thinks the club doesn’t give two shits about them as people.

If Burton & co fronted the playing group, put their hands up and admitted they screwed up there wouldn’t even be an issue at present. The desperate attempts from those behind the scenes to save face at the expense of the players has led to this current state. It’s a recipe for disaster when a club has people in power who prioritise remaining untouchable themselves over everything else.

The fact no heads have rolled after two whole years of discontent speaks volumes. Just an extremely poorly run club that’s doomed for a long stint in the wilderness unless a full scale clean out occurs after the review.
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Not far off the mark kozi
 
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