Pippen94
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- Jun 12, 2019
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People like paying less for stuff - so yeah valid question
Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread
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There is no way that Kayo or the Telstra live app can explain the size of the collapse in A League ratings and interest
Kayo released some data last month....A League was not mentioned with every indication that it was Cricket and AFL (and to a lessor extent NRL) driving subscriptions
So the AFL had one game that had a reach of 130K users with some other "regular season games reaching over 100,000 users". That's a reach figure not an average and it is for the big games....presumably the average is far lower than that.
Likewise this is the only thing I have seen released on telstra live apps (ahead of soccer getting a similar app)
1.2 million devices: Telstra breaks weekend sports streaming record
Telstra quietly broke an internal record this month for the most mobile devices streaming sport on its apps in a single weekend.
So, again, they are peak and reach figures that would dwarf anything the A League pulls in (which nobody has bothered releasing information on) and the AFL's foxtel ratings have dropped off less in absolute terms (an far far less in percentage terms) than the A League
Whatever is explainable by either Kayo or the telstra app is a fraction of the collpase in foxtel ratings
Also, remember the AFL's attendace and membership figures have gone up in that time - whereas the A League's are shrinking which validates all the other evidence pointing to decline
Apparently the Wanderers got 17K to their first game at the new parammata stadium even though they were giving tickets away....and even their own fans were convinced there were far less than the announced attendance....apparently there was only 11K there!!!
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- #1,078
Its a valid question for which people have been told repeatedly there is no data. Seriously Im at the point where ill be changing my twitter account name to "kayo not included"
Actually that's not totally true....It is true that there is no analogous data set that is released like OZTAM's FTA and STV ratings.....but there is "data" that can be used to infer what the magnitude of the kayo impact might be in broad terns. I posted some in my previous post
1) The AFL ratings fell by less in absolute terms and massively less in percentage terms than the A League's last season with the advent of Kayo
2) The Kayo released data which suggest that, at the top end, the reach data was over 100k for some AFL games implying significantly lower averages
3) There was no mention of the A League at all
4) All other evidence suggests a collapse in A League support
So using reason and the data that has been made available there is simple no way that Kayo can explain that much of the decline in A League viewership.
BringBackTorps
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There are often claims & counter claims, across various sports, about the "true" stadium attendance vs. the attendance published by the stadium operator.
People often make claims based on television images of one side of the ground ie where the cameras pan across to the far side, but dont show the crowd on the same side as the camera (where, often, all the membership sections are all based eg GWS at Giants stadium).
If there is fudging of the crowd figures, then, inevitably, the truth will merge eg the NRL, where NRL officials have admitted previously that deliberate inflating of nos. occurred. Ditto, the NSL.
What is the basis of your claim that WSW "...own fans were convinced...there was only 11k there"?
The old Parra stadium, built & updated c. 1986, had a capacity of 24,000. Justification for building the new Bankwest Stadium, capacity 30,000 (cost $360,000,000) was partially based that WSW needed a larger stadium.
If WSW attract average crowds of less than 20,000 (& the A League had MSM clear air yesterday) & Parramatta NRL crowds in 2019 have not been, generally, huge (& Parra made Finals in 2019), will this cause the NSW govt. to reassess its very expensive strategies for the rebuild of the SFS ($730,000,000), & revamp. of ANZ stadium ($810,000,000)? Neither costs include VERY expensive demolition expenses. A League average crowds diminish once Test & BBL cricket start.
There may not be the demand for bigger and/or better stadia in Sydney? Expensive waste of taxpayers' moneys if redeveloped stadia average less than their old capacities?
Sydney Olympic stadium’s $810m upgrade
The new plans for the $810 million redevelopment of the ANZ Stadium in Sydney Olympic Park have revealed.
www.news.com.au
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Pippen94
Cancelled
- Jun 12, 2019
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- AFL Club
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The irony of a gws fan questioning money spent on stadiums based on crowds - how many times has gws averaged over 50% capacity at spotless for a season.There are often claims & counter claims, across various sports, about the "true" stadium attendance vs. the attendance published by the stadium operator.
People often make claims based on television images of one side of the ground ie where the cameras pan across to the far side, but dont show the crowd on the same side as the camera (where, often, all the membership sections are all based eg GWS at Giants stadium.
Have there been images shown on TV, or posted online, showing all 4 sides, during ac game time, of the Bankwe WSW match yesterday?
If so, what do they indicate?
Are WSW member sections on the camera side- or the far side (which the cameras show)?
What is the basis of your claim that WSW "...own fans were convinced...there was only 11k there"?
The old Parra stadium, built & updated c. 1986, had a capacity of 24,000. Justification for building the new Bankwest Stadium, capacity 30,000 (cost $360,000,000) was partially based that WSW needed a larger stadium.
If WSW attract crowds of less than 20,000 ( & the A League had MSM clear air yesterday) & Parramatta NRL crowds in 2019 have not been, generally, huge (& Parra made Finals in 2019), will this cause the NSW govt. to reassess its very expensive strategies for the rebuild of the SFS ($730,000,000), & revamp. of ANZ stadium ($810,000,000)? Neither costs include VERY expensive demolition expenses.
There may not be the demand for bigger and/or better stadia in Sydney? Expensive waste of taxpayers moneys if redeveloped stadia average less than their old capacities?
Sydney Olympic stadium’s $810m upgrade
The new plans for the $810 million redevelopment of the ANZ Stadium in Sydney Olympic Park have revealed.
Pippen94
Cancelled
- Jun 12, 2019
- 2,670
- 976
- AFL Club
- Sydney
Afl fans are older & less tech savvy.
Pippen94
Cancelled
- Jun 12, 2019
- 2,670
- 976
- AFL Club
- Sydney
Biggest non derby crowd for WSW despite heavy rain & zero marketing - crushes gws.There is no way that Kayo or the Telstra live app can explain the size of the collapse in A League ratings and interest
Kayo released some data last month....A League was not mentioned with every indication that it was Cricket and AFL (and to a lessor extent NRL) driving subscriptions
View attachment 763588
So the AFL had one game that had a reach of 130K users with some other "regular season games reaching over 100,000 users". That's a reach figure not an average and it is for the big games....presumably the average is far lower than that.
Likewise this is the only thing I have seen released on telstra live apps (ahead of soccer getting a similar app)
1.2 million devices: Telstra breaks weekend sports streaming record
Telstra quietly broke an internal record this month for the most mobile devices streaming sport on its apps in a single weekend.www.brisbanetimes.com.au
So, again, they are peak and reach figures that would dwarf anything the A League pulls in (which nobody has bothered releasing information on) and the AFL's foxtel ratings have dropped off less in absolute terms (an far far less in percentage terms) than the A League
Whatever is explainable by either Kayo or the telstra app is a fraction of the collpase in foxtel ratings
Also, remember the AFL's attendace and membership figures have gone up in that time - whereas the A League's are shrinking which validates all the other evidence pointing to decline
Apparently the Wanderers got 17K to their first game at the new parammata stadium even though they were giving tickets away....and even their own fans were convinced there were far less than the announced attendance....apparently there was only 11K there!!!
- Moderator
- #1,085
The kayo data released was borderline meaningless in terms of establishing trends. You cant infer average viewership from reach data AT ALL.
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- #1,086
And you are done here.
BringBackTorps
Club Legend
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1. Prof. G. Blainey has written that AF was attracting crowds of c. 10,000 in Melb. by the early 1870's; & a crowd of 34,000 was estimated to have attended a Sth Melb. vs. Geelong match in 1886. He said these were, then, world record crowds for any football code.
AF has a very long history of attracting very large crowds, on a consistent basis, many times in the season- including Sydney.
GWS- formed 2012
NSL professional soccer- formed 1977
NSWRL- formed 1908
Sydney RU- formed 1880's
As GWS is only in its 8th season, & is in western Sydney, an area that was once (but not now) virtually barren for AF, its crowds are excellent. Given the significant GR AF growth occurring all over Sydney, GWS crowds will only increase over time. The Swans, obviously, have set the template for GWS, having the highest club average seasonal attendance, for many years, of any code in Sydney.
2. Why did NRL's Phil Gould, an expert on GR sport in Sydney's WS, say last month "GWS will become a juggernaut".
3. Incidentally, do you agree with the comments of RL officials, that RL has deliberately inflated its crowds in the past? And continues to do so, with its novel estimates of Magic Round crowds?
Do you agree that the NSL deliberately inflated its crowds? And that the A League does also?
4. What code/s & team/s do you follow?
5. Why are you pretending you are a Swans fan?
6. Are the A League ratings and/or crowds in decline?
Is it true that soccer fans on social media were saying there was probably much less than 17,000 at the WSW match?
Why was Foxtel mentioning other sports, but not the A League, on its sport print advertising recently?
7. NRL per capita crowds have been in a long term decline since c. 1990, & raw crowd nos. are stagnant since the mid 1990's; & male RL regd. comp. player raw nos. are also in a long term decline. Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?
8. The Chinese Communist Party (which has, ultimately, total control of all private companies in China, as well as state companies) is, directly or indirectly, investing in professional sporting teams in the West. The Communist Party has this policy to enhance its Soft Power & political influence in those countries. Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?
9. Why have you failed to answer questions I have put to you in the past- either by completely ignoring my questions, or by not specifically addressing the issues in the questions?
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"Meaningless in terms of establishing trends" does not equal meaningless
OK, so this is an example of just believing what you want to believe and confusing it with a fact
These are facts
1) Kayo released data suggesting they had 380K active subscribers at the end of June
2) 130K - over a third of the number at 1) - tuned into just one Sunday arvo AFL game
3) The AFL foxtel ratings dropped by 7-8% this year
4) Kayo's media release made no mention of the A League
5) The A League's foxtel ratings almost collapsed last year by almost half (if memory serves me correctly)
These are facts. Saying that AFL fans are older and less tech savvy isn't a fact without any supporting evidence.
Good lord
The ABC figure is probably better than what they would have got on 10 Bold.
- May 13, 2012
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- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
Soccer fans often make the claim that they have this massive younger audience only using newer technologies, much greater in number than used by the AFL and NRL.
Not only do the stats we have seen dispel that desperate hope, but it can't explain why ABC Kids shows like Peppa Pig are constantly obliterating the A-League in the ratings (100% of these ratings being people who aren't meant to be watching traditional TV).
Not only do the stats we have seen dispel that desperate hope, but it can't explain why ABC Kids shows like Peppa Pig are constantly obliterating the A-League in the ratings (100% of these ratings being people who aren't meant to be watching traditional TV).
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- #1,093
Yep, never seen anyone under 50yo at the football
Yeah I hate it when soccer fans troat out that crap, it is all a myth in which they connect it to the participation numbers, which they forget not all those numbers support the A-League. I see just as much if not more kids and younger adults at an AFL match than at an A-League match. Some goes with the older generations.
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
It might be true in proportionate numbers, but if we're talking absolute numbers, it's definitely not true.
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- #1,095
Good lord
It’s real bad I just worry there is no coming back for the A-League at this point. Gonna get even worse once Wellington is on every second week too. I think the football community just has to accept the A-Leagues place.
- Apr 12, 2012
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Over 300 million spent on Bankwest,and according to Wanderers fans it's because of them only.
Giants are asking for 35 mil to finish Spotless, I'm sure someone has the figures for the upgrade to the ground back when we joined but it's nowhere near 300 million.
And I'm fairly certain the AFL/Giants put in 20 million to the redevelopment back at the start. How much did the Wanderers or the FFA throw in for Bankwest?
The scaring thing is that western United haven't even played yet. The best chance at another burst of momentum would have been to let south Melbourne in.
The AFL put about $14m out of about $65m
Presumably it will also be kicking in on top of that $35m?
Maybe, maybe not. It was the first game of the season but it's also on at a less advantageous time than last year.
The big problem is how much would have pretty much any other program got on our public broadcasters main channel at the same time?
This is going to end in tears
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