Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[FRUMPY]

Glad I'm not the only one who is happy SOS didn't pay overs to force the deals through.

I feel for him, he was damned if he did and damned if be didn't. But in my opinion, I'd much rather he walk away than start giving in to unrealistic demands.

We'll be right.

Go Blues!

But we should have a plan B, C, D and traded for the sake of trading and bolster our VFL list

 

[mochacinolatte]

Last night was the biggest tantrum I’ve seen in my 10+ years of big footy

“I want a new toy now!!”


Net in
Betts
Pinoett

Net out
Future 4th
Philips

If we get Martin for free then we go from slight improvement to massive improvement

Didn't think it will be worse than last year's Shiel Saga, boy was I proven wrong.

People need to differentiate 'facts' from 'rumours'. You are setting yourself to be burnt. I appreciate the ITK posters, and I understand that every second things change.

 

[KohPhi]

I distinctly remember reading “the only concern we have is what size statue to build of SOS and the recruiting department after this off season”
I think those talks have failed too!
#s***tradeperiod!

Yep..whoever posted that may be feeling a bit sheepish this morning..

 

[Opine]

Things have changed rather dramatically in the last few days. AFL just canned the introduction of the pre season supplementary selection period until early 2021 at the earliest.

Andrew Dillion might dust out the Rule book and enact Rule 7.1

Might.



Clubs choose to participate IF the AFL GC announces it. We don't get a say in whether it is held. Martin has to nominate and we now cross our fingers that the AFL enact it.

AFL can decide not to and Martin is forced into the National Draft.

Given they’ve alluded to its availability in sponsor branded communication on player movement, it’s reasonable to assume that 7.1, which for those concerned refers to nominating a date for holding PSD, will be nominated if needed.

https://nabafldraftnom.com.au/images/form/booklet_mens.pdf

 

[jd2010]

Glad I'm not the only one who is happy SOS didn't pay overs to force the deals through.

I feel for him, he was damned if he did and damned if be didn't. But in my opinion, I'd much rather he walk away than start giving in to unrealistic demands.

We'll be right.

Go Blues!

Agree re the deals we didn't get done. But he should also find more realistic targets (S.Gray, Butler, Langdon etc.) as well as going for the difficult ones

 

[zeggie]

Given they’ve alluded to its availability in sponsor branded communication on player movement, it’s reasonable to assume that 7.1, which for those concerned refers to nominating a date for holding PSD, will be nominated if needed.

https://nabafldraftnom.com.au/images/form/booklet_mens.pdf

We ask Martin to nominate for the PSD. We hope AFL enact it.

There are other delisted free agents seeking homes so we might get lucky.

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

The real failure here is in the club managing expectations, if they had stated (and maybe they did somewhere) that Papley is not available unless Daniher gets to the Swans most of us wouldn't be so Pi**ed. It probably didn't help that a lot of us get our info from here and the generally feel was the trades were more than less likely.

I am thinking we will be able to structure Martin's contract so that Melbourne can't afford him in the PSD and get him for free so that might be a win anyway.

My only real criticism would come if Wines was gettable. As we didn't pursue in favor of targeting Papley who in reality, Essendon were in control of him being available. I'd really like to know what it would have taken to satisfy Port for Wines.

 

[KnobHead]

Agree re the deals we didn't get done. But he should also find more realistic targets (S.Gray, Butler, Langdon etc.) as well as going for the difficult ones

Question is whether the more realistic targets will benefit the side?

SOS may have the view that’s there’s no point trading if it’s for the sack of trading.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Matty411]

Craig Cameron isn’t paying 1m for Martin on a one year deal.

Everyone breath. The most likely thing that happens is the Clubs find a way for both teams to ‘win’ from here in pick swaps. Then GC DFA him.

Eg: our 9, 43 and next years second for their 15 and 20 this year. That’s ~2625-2725 out for us and 2024 in. Obvs in their favour because it should be (to allow free passage of Martin). That’s only an EG to demonstrate a point. Could involve 11 next year. Anything really.

Could on trade 15 and 20 for other picks, bundle with our next year’s picks, whatever.

In the cool light of day they will sort this out for all parties. Thankfully the AfL will turn a blind eye. Just need to give them somehting and I think that’s 9. And we need to get something and I think that’s a smaller points differential.

Isn’t that hard.

Yeah if I'm SOS, I'm not doing them any favours when we can get him in the PSD. F*** them.

 

[1981]

So is everyone over there little tanty's now... finished tossing the toys out of the pram?

Good... SOS has responded well to what was basically an attempted strong arm effort from GC17, and by extension the AFL, to hand over another top 10 pick to good old Gold Coast.

SOS offered up a number of good deals to GC17, who was apparently under instructions from the AFL to be harder at the negotiating table. But it helps to be tough at the negotiating table when you are in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they were trying to be tough negotiators from a position of weakness. Martin is uncontracted and will now be pi**ed off with GC17 because of the stupid stance that they took... especially after trading Ah Chee for two 2020 picks... I'm sure you all know which rounds they are in. SOS looked at their final offer and told them to pound sand before walking out of the room laughing at their weak efforts.

Mind you, he came across as a bit perturbed with both GC17's list manager and that stupid twat from * who basically wasted the whole trade period for us and pretty much for Shitney. Mind you, he did screw Dodoro over when he got pick 57 and 70 for Phillips and 61 and 72. Shit, I would have taken pick 70 on it's own for Phillips after doing a Grigg on us.

As for the deal with Shitney for Papley, it was always going to be dependent on the Daniher trade and when that collapsed, Shitney no longer needed pick 9 so the Papley deal died in the arse. What sort of deadshit a-hole wants 2 first round picks for a guy who has hardly got on the field in the last 2 years... oh that's right... it's Dodoro. I'm certain that the guy cooks his own bread at home every day... a bit of a master baker if you will.

Now, I've heard a whole lot of "what about plan B" on Farcebook and on Twitter... we should have taken Butler... or Cutler... why didn't we look at some other small forward? Scak SOS... this has been a failure of a trade period!

Why?

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

There is a reason why all 4 of those guys went for late picks and played bugger all games this year... they are not A grade small forwards.

Eddie had a poor year by his standards... he played 21 games and kicked 37 goals. If we want an experienced depth small forward... we could always pick up Jeffy as a DFA.

Now... I don't know about you lot, but I am actually pretty happy that we walked out of the trade period with a good backup to Kreuzer for bugger all, and we also got back Eddie for 12 months to act as a player/mentor. I'm also happy that GC17 have managed to screw themselves with Martin because he is out of contract and will walk into the PSD and probably as for a 12 month 1.2 million dollar contract. Out of GC17, the Dees and us... Carlton are the only team that can afford that sort of contract. I'm not saying that we would be so crass as to tamper with the PSD and get Martin to screw his old club... but fu** it... they have 4 top 20 picks. If they can't pick up some serious talent with that lot, they need to offer SOS 2 million a year to go to the Gold Coast for 3 years and rebuild their entire list.

Sorry but I don’t agree with you.
SOS’ job is the make the list better. Outside of probably adding another quality experienced midfielder, the obvious hole on our list is small forward.
The thing is, and I think this is something that seems to have been missed by nearly everyone here, the disappointment is not just tied to last night (trade week).
SOS has had all year, in fact you could even say 12 months, to get some quality small forwards to the club (the point being, could he have not got in the ear or other players?). Granted the GC concessions came late in the picture, and Essendon is the last club you want to rely on in a trade, but regardless, SOS had 12 months to find us a small forward and all he ended up with was Betts who is near the end if not already there.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying his job is easy. Might be one of the hardest gigs going around. But the reality is, outside of GWS players whom he had the advantage of having previously drafted, and McGovern whom the AFL as much as gifted us, he has not fared well in terms of luring big names to the club now that we are at the stage in our list development cycle. Shiel. Coniglio. Martin. Papley. So far SOS has largely fired blanks.
Now in saying all this, if he gets Martin via the PSD then it is a B+ Pass for me, which is sufficient. But if he doesn’t, then sorry, while I know it is a hard job, the fact is he had 12 months to get us a good small forward and hasn’t been able to do it.

 

[Navy blue whale]

What's the likelihood of the proposed preseason trade period starting in 2020?

At a guess I'd say 5% chance? Or has it been ruled out?

Doubt we'd be able to pick up players like Papley or Wines however.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Opine]

Things have changed rather dramatically in the last few days. AFL just canned the introduction of the pre season supplementary selection period until early 2021 at the earliest.

Andrew Dillion might dust out the Rule book and enact Rule 7.1

Might.



Clubs choose to participate IF the AFL GC announces it. We don't get a say in whether it is held. Martin has to nominate and we now cross our fingers that the AFL enact it.

AFL can decide not to and Martin is forced into the National Draft.

Sure the AFL has ultimate discretion, but let’s stay on point, Martin is unlikely to nominate without prior indication that a particular club/s will participate. The key point being that it may be made available if required.

 

[Matty411]

Having had the night to sleep on it, I'm conflicted.

On one hand - great work for SOS and co to stick to their guns and not wildly overpay for our targets.

On the other (slightly bigger) hand - we saw several other clubs just pay a bit overs (or a lot) for their men. In a day, week, month - nobody will care what they paid. If there was a chance Papley got to us without Daniher by just paying Pick 9 outright - we should have 100% done it. So I'm miffed we couldn't get the deal across, and pissed that such a good operator in SOS let Dodo dictate our results (again it could be argued).

What it now says to players who want to come to us and nominate publicly is "maybe they can't be trusted to get me across the line". Doesn't matter what happened to get here or who's at fault. It's not a good look and we were - as JustaBattler beautifully states - held hostage.

 

[mochacinolatte]

If you think you are having a bad, I just witness a poor lady fall over some stairs and dropped her $1 7-11 coffee.

 

[Hands On]

So is everyone over there little tanty's now... finished tossing the toys out of the pram?

Good... SOS has responded well to what was basically an attempted strong arm effort from GC17, and by extension the AFL, to hand over another top 10 pick to good old Gold Coast.

SOS offered up a number of good deals to GC17, who was apparently under instructions from the AFL to be harder at the negotiating table. But it helps to be tough at the negotiating table when you are in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they were trying to be tough negotiators from a position of weakness. Martin is uncontracted and will now be pi**ed off with GC17 because of the stupid stance that they took... especially after trading Ah Chee for two 2020 picks... I'm sure you all know which rounds they are in. SOS looked at their final offer and told them to pound sand before walking out of the room laughing at their weak efforts.

Mind you, he came across as a bit perturbed with both GC17's list manager and that stupid twat from * who basically wasted the whole trade period for us and pretty much for Shitney. Mind you, he did screw Dodoro over when he got pick 57 and 70 for Phillips and 61 and 72. Shit, I would have taken pick 70 on it's own for Phillips after doing a Grigg on us.

As for the deal with Shitney for Papley, it was always going to be dependent on the Daniher trade and when that collapsed, Shitney no longer needed pick 9 so the Papley deal died in the arse. What sort of deadshit a-hole wants 2 first round picks for a guy who has hardly got on the field in the last 2 years... oh that's right... it's Dodoro. I'm certain that the guy cooks his own bread at home every day... a bit of a master baker if you will.

Now, I've heard a whole lot of "what about plan B" on Farcebook and on Twitter... we should have taken Butler... or Cutler... why didn't we look at some other small forward? Scak SOS... this has been a failure of a trade period!

Why?

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

There is a reason why all 4 of those guys went for late picks and played bugger all games this year... they are not A grade small forwards.

Eddie had a poor year by his standards... he played 21 games and kicked 37 goals. If we want an experienced depth small forward... we could always pick up Jeffy as a DFA.

Now... I don't know about you lot, but I am actually pretty happy that we walked out of the trade period with a good backup to Kreuzer for bugger all, and we also got back Eddie for 12 months to act as a player/mentor. I'm also happy that GC17 have managed to screw themselves with Martin because he is out of contract and will walk into the PSD and probably as for a 12 month 1.2 million dollar contract. Out of GC17, the Dees and us... Carlton are the only team that can afford that sort of contract. I'm not saying that we would be so crass as to tamper with the PSD and get Martin to screw his old club... but fu** it... they have 4 top 20 picks. If they can't pick up some serious talent with that lot, they need to offer SOS 2 million a year to go to the Gold Coast for 3 years and rebuild their entire list.

this. top shelf.

 

[BrownDog20]

What's the likelihood of the proposed preseason trade period starting in 2020?

At a guess I'd say 5% chance? Or has it been ruled out?

Been ruled out, apparently clubs have been informed.

Doubt we'd be able to pick up players like Papley or Wines however.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[HBF]

Blues were done over.

Deals were agreed to, then reneged upon and more, much more was sought for both Papley & Martin.

Last night Dodoro was offered pick 9, next years 1st and 2nd by Swans, who were going to seek AFL approval to enable deal to proceed or obtain a future 2nd as part of other deals.

Dodoro has shafted a family member of Essendon royalty who wanted to leave Melbourne for relative anonymity in Sydney.

AFL complicit in the shafting we received by the Gold Coast Suns, told they needed to flex their muscle and harden up.

SOS didn’t fail, at this point he hasn’t delivered the players but he also didn’t overpay.

Very obvious many in here have never been involved in a commercial negotiation of any significance.

Thanks for the summary OR.
Its a shame we couldn't land Papley and Martin, but there is still a bit to play over the coming weeks with Martin, and there shouldn't be any reason why we couldn't try to land Papley in another 12 months.

 

[BIGGUS 64]

Oh dear, it would seem some kiddies here didn't get everything they wanted for Christmas.

(Cue Kevin Bloody Wilson singing "Hey Santa Claus you campaigner, where's me flowerin' bike?!!")

As far as I'm concerned, SOS has two jobs at trade time:
1. Get some new talent in the door.
2. Make sure we don't get fleeced by other clubs.

Personally, I think the second job is more important than the first. While it would be great to get everything on our wish list, if the cost is going to be too high and compromise our later endeavors, it's not worth it. We already have plenty of wonderful talent at our club.
Better to step away from a bad deal than be willing suckers. Clearly neither Sydney or GC were prepared to do a deal that was good for us. Why would we go ahead with a deal that's loaded in their favour - what are we, a charity?

I am chuffed that we got Eddie back at the club, even if his best years are behind him I feel he will be a positive influence on and off the field. I love that he is so stoked to be back at our club. Pittonet was a smart acquisition and cost us very little. He replaces Phillips and hopefully is less injury prone, so we win overall.

What is very gratifying is that players like Papley and Jack Martin are wanting to come to our club. Regardless of whether the deal got done or not, they chose us and that means we may yet find a way to make it happen, just not yet. If we end up getting Martin through the PSD for free, that will be a massive win by SOS, so kids, hold your horses.

 

[zeggie]

Sure the AFL has ultimate discretion, but let’s stay on point, Martin is unlikely to nominate without prior indication that a particular club/s will participate. The key point being that it will be made available if required.

Don't underestimate the likelihood of the AFL giving us a final finger by not enacting a PSD.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Funk]

Pick 9 for the likes of Jack Martin is a BS deal, whether it's as a trade or in the ND.
Out of contract, for starters.
Never realised his potential and as conditional as they come as has been reported. Dropped to the NEAFL. By the worst team in the league, ffs. Says a bit.
And they want a top 10 pick? That's like the Hyundai dealer charging an extra 10k just because you JUST RECEIVED A GOVERNMENT GRANT.......

EFA

 

[Opine]

https://nabafldraftnom.com.au/images/form/booklet_mens.pdf

If you're going to intrude with definitive statements, you'd wanna make sure you're well informed. The dates haven't been announced as there will not be a PSD unless a player nominates for it.

In recent past clubs have chosen not to participate; consequently PSD has not been held. But, that is not to say that there were no player nominations.

 

[FRUMPY]

Sorry but I don’t agree with you.
SOS’ job is the make the list better. Outside of probably adding another quality experienced midfielder, the obvious hole on our list is small forward.
The thing is, and I think this is something that seems to have been missed by nearly everyone here, the disappointment is not just tied to last night (trade week).
SOS has had all year, in fact you could even say 12 months, to get some quality small forwards to the club (the point being, could he have not got in the ear or other players?). Granted the GC concessions came late in the picture, and Essendon is the last club you want to rely on in a trade, but regardless, SOS had 12 months to find us a small forward and all he ended up with was Betts who is near the end if not already there.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying his job is easy. Might be one of the hardest gigs going around. But the reality is, outside of GWS players whom he had the advantage of having previously drafted, and McGovern whom the AFL as much as gifted us, he has not fared well in terms of luring big names to the club now that we are at the stage in our list development cycle. Shiel. Coniglio. Martin. Papley. So far SOS has largely fired blanks.
Now in saying all this, if he gets Martin via the PSD then it is a B+ Pass for me, which is sufficient. But if he doesn’t, then sorry, while I know it is a hard job, the fact is he had 12 months to get us a good small forward and hasn’t been able to do it.

So you havnt listed any small forwards to target and martin isn't a small fwd so why does it change to a B+ if getting martin doesn't fill our'' biggest need'?

 

[Opine]

Don't underestimate the likelihood of the AFL giving us a final finger by not enacting a PSD.

Fingers crossed.

...and toes.

 

[Accidental genius]

Whilst I'll never 'ITK bash' because;
1) it's the internet, and I never put much credence into much of what I read on the internet
2) I am genuinely entertained by their posts and the subsequent discussions it produces

I do agree with assessment that it comes across as more than just rumours by the way they are written.

There's subtle differences though. There is the genuine 'heard this from someone, make of it what you will' type like this...

Big fish in the works. May not get both paps and Martin if we land it. Elite midfielder. Don't ask who the player is.
Source: past multiple premiership player and inner sanctum member.

Nothing wrong here. Insinuates much, but really says little. No harm done.

then there's this type, a poster posting something they've heard along with their own assumption. Nothing definitive, no harm done..

There's something big brewing. I'm still confident it involves Gaff (or atleast to that caper of talent). That's what I'm hearing.

Then there are these types. Not a rumour as such, but a definitive statement. It's these ones that make it sound like gospel.

An agreement has been reached between all 3 clubs
Daniher to sydney
Papley to Carlton
2x first rounders to Ess
There will be an upgrade from a 3rd to a 2nd which we will ultimately land us Martin

Martin and Betts will be done
He will be BOUND BY BLUE .......(Papley)

It will happen. Just hang in there. (Martin)

Papley will also 100% get done.

Martin deal is done... agreed on a couple of options depending on what happens with Papley.

Unless Papley falls through, won't happen (Wines). Papley won't fall through.

Add Tom Papley and Jack Martin while your at it. Welcome to Carlton

These examples above are the types of 'rumours' that I believe, cause most of the angst amongst many here. They are written in a way that promotes them as facts, not rumours.

Now let me reiterate, I'm not having a go at any ITK posters, as they genuinely may be posting info they've heard, but maybe the lesson out of this is preface the posts with 'this is what I've heard' 'as it currently stands' etc.

Like a good joke, it's all in the delivery.

Very good.

 

[Coops93]

I think we should wipe Papley off SOS' record. We couldn't do anything about that one because of a certain dodo head.

Martin may prove to be a masterstroke. If we get him for free it will absolutely be a good move. It's risky, but if it comes off it could be SOS' best move since he got to Carlton. I wasn't comfortable giving up 9 for him, even with 15 coming back. I don't think pick 15 is worth much in this draft. A late teen/early 20s pick is what he is worth