Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[geelong_crazy26]

Not sure they are bigger coaching blunders than Chapman as the sub, Menzel out for Zuthrie, and Rucking Blicavs instead of Stanley.

08 GF we kicked poorly - it cost us, wasn’t necessarily a massive coaching error. 2010 Collingwood were the best side, they deserved that flag.

I will also just add to that in a separate post. We were only 24 points down with 40 minutes left of play.

We were a country mile better team then hawthorn in 08. So why with 40 minutes left of play couldn’t we lift the gears and do what Richmond did to us and many other better teams do when the chips are down??

We didn’t bridge the gap at all.

We just were outcoached

 

[Ray Donovan]

Name 8 rucks who are better. Bar the top 3 most of the afl’s rucks are average. He is no worse than most of the rucks in the afl.

He’s not grundy, gawn or goldy though. He’s better than soldo or nank. But richmond didn’t need a star ruck cause their coach isn’t stupid enough to drop his rucks and play a defender instead.

I get what you are saying he is no worse than a few on his best days problem is he consistency is shite.

And his overall performance over 2019 is in the bottom third. That's by no means saying I think he had a bad year or his last two seasons have been poor actually career best. But if you throw that up against the league and then compared players careers around the same age you get the picture. Sandiland, Jacobs, Mumfords of the world at that peak age of 28 were in the top 3rd. Only one I threw in you could take out of 2019 is natanui injuries probably ended his career as being top tier but his best and body of work is superior. If you looked at 2019 minus nat he ranks around 12th pretty similar to Rory Lobb who is a makeshift ruckman like Stanley. He ranks outside the top 15 in hitouts as well so it's more competitiveness and athleticism that Geelong value him for.

Even the nank example you can't say he is better nanks previous two seasons prior to injuries in 2019 were far superior to Stanley in effect on the team and stats wise.

But I understand your point which is you don't really go to a game worrying about these mid-tier ruckman because generally the effect on game is minimal. His best days are not much worse but the work over the whole season is not very impressive in comparison to the league. A real shame Geelong never had a strong ruck type whilst we had a super strong midfield to feed danger & selwood.

It's a real issue for concern for the cats going forward. Josh Jenkins will help a bit in some regards it's a shame though because I really like esava running on ball as backup ruck.


2019 rankings

Gawn
Grundy
(Natanui )
Goldstein
R.Marshall

S.Lycett
J.Witts
R.Obrien
S.Martin
B.Mcevoy
M.Kruezer

R.Lobb
R.Stanley
T.Nankervis
C.Sinclair

T.English

Veterans

A.Sandilands
S.Mumford
S.Jacobs

 

[Down at K Park]

I get what you are saying he is no worse than a few on his best days problem is he consistency is shite.

And his overall performance over 2019 is in the bottom third. That's by no means saying I think he had a bad year or his last two seasons have been poor actually career best. But if you throw that up against the league and then compared players careers around the same age you get the picture. Sandiland, Jacobs, Mumfords of the world at that peak age of 28 were in the top 3rd. Only one I threw in you could take out of 2019 is natanui injuries probably ended his career as being top tier but his best and body of work is superior. If you looked at 2019 minus nat he ranks around 12th pretty similar to Rory Lobb who is a makeshift ruckman like Stanley. He ranks outside the top 15 in hitouts as well so it's more competitiveness and athleticism that Geelong value him for.

Even the nank example you can't say he is better nanks previous two seasons prior to injuries in 2019 were far superior to Stanley in effect on the team and stats wise.

But I understand your point which is you don't really go to a game worrying about these mid-tier ruckman because generally the effect on game is minimal. His best days are not much worse but the work over the whole season is not very impressive in comparison to the league. A real shame Geelong never had a strong ruck type whilst we had a super strong midfield to feed danger & selwood.

It's a real issue for concern for the cats going forward. Josh Jenkins will help a bit in some regards it's a shame though because I really like esava running on ball as backup ruck.


2019 rankings

Gawn
Grundy
(Natanui )
Goldstein
R.Marshall

S.Lycett
J.Witts
R.Obrien
S.Martin
B.Mcevoy
M.Kruezer

R.Lobb
R.Stanley
T.Nankervis
C.Sinclair

T.English

Veterans

A.Sandilands
S.Mumford
S.Jacobs

Agree with you regarding consistency. His best is good enough. Just doesn't do it often enough and has some stinkers.

 

[Partridge]

Agree with you regarding consistency. His best is good enough. Just doesn't do it often enough and has some stinkers.

True. But the strange thing is he does perform well against the top ruckmen.

For instance - Round 1 versus Collingwood (and Grundy) - he had 18 disposals and 23 hitouts, versus Grundy who had 18 disposals and 34 hitouts. That's not embarrassing by any stretch of the imagination. And we won.

So the notion that anyone knows that he wouldn't have been able to even match Grundy is demonstrably wrong.

 

[Partridge]

Not sure they are bigger coaching blunders than Chapman as the sub, Menzel out for Zuthrie, and Rucking Blicavs instead of Stanley.

08 GF we kicked poorly - it cost us, wasn’t necessarily a massive coaching error. 2010 Collingwood were the best side, they deserved that flag.

Yes the fact that Collingwood had beaten us easily late in that season before the finals seems to be conveniently overlooked.

Thompson's main coaching blunder that I can recall was having Stokes on Hodge in 2008. The difference is - and where he was way, way, way different to Scott - he learned from it. Never did it again. We never lost to Hawthorn again under him either.

Whereas with Scott, we have these examples:

- 2013 Qualifying Final. Drop our best ruckman, play Blicavs against top quality opposition, he gets smashed, we lose narrowly to a lower ranked team.
- 2019 Qualifying Final. Drop our best ruckman, play Blicavs against top quality opposition, he gets smashed, we lose narrowly to a lower ranked team.

Six years and he's learned nothing.

 

[winty]

Yes the fact that Collingwood had beaten us easily late in that season before the finals seems to be conveniently overlooked.

I often wonder how that abysmal goal umpiring decision in the 3rd term of that game when the umpire ruled a clear goal as a rushed behind affected our players. At the time, we'd come from the clouds, having kicked 7 of the last 8 goals to come from 28 points down to a goal in front, and if judged correctly we'd have been 2 goals up with all the momentum.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I often wonder how that abysmal goal umpiring decision in the 3rd term of that game when the umpire ruled a clear goal as a rushed behind affected our players. At the time, we'd come from the clouds, having kicked 7 of the last 8 goals to come from 28 points down to a goal in front, and if judged correctly we'd have been 2 goals up with all the momentum.

Yeah Shagga Burns. Was a clear goal and changed the momentum somewhat.
Still reckon the Pies were the best team that year though.

 

[sauron256]

Vote - Sack Thompson

Should we sack Thompson? Just a simple Yes or No (Trying to work out how to add the poll)

www.bigfooty.com

The more things change...

 

[Mr Meow]

Clarkson came up with a game plan that was designed to beat our ball movement and it succeeded. Thompson had no answer for it come the big dance. He failed us big time in 08. The gap between us and hawthorn that year was the size of the Grand Canyon. Yet we lost by four goals.

Officially the worst choke in a finals. Should have never happened.

Collingwood clearly weren’t the better side, a severely weakened geelong outfit in 2011 against that same collingwood side beat them 3/3 times under Scott. We were clearly a better team with just a poor gameplan under Thompson.

Thompson actually asked the players at the end of 2009 if they wanted to change the game plan and the players said no.

What sort of coach has to ask his players if they feel like changing a game plan?? Do you think clarkson gets permission??

He cost us 2008 and also 2010 imo. 2010 is proven by 2011, and 2008 just speaks for itself as quite embarrassing.

I have no doubt Scott would have won us 4-5 flags if he had that group

Even with the hiccups, Bombers legacy will be that drought breaking side that was one of the best in the club's history. 2011 of course Scott deserves credit but so does Bomber for assembling a flag capable squad of champions.

Scott's legacy, rightly or wrongly will be as a coach of great home and away sides that couldn't get to grand finals. His first year was fantastic and the rest as a whole have been unsatisfying. To all but a few hardcore fans. Even the year on year fence sitters would agree with this by now.

If Scott wins another flag it will mean a lot more to him than 2011 and be rated higher by everyone in the footy industry. If you don't understand why then you're simply blinded.

And FWIW even with some of his deplorable finals decisions I thought this was his second best year of coaching at the club. Hawkins and Duncan in, plus some first half accuracy, and he had them cruising into a GF against a mediocre GWS.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Even with the hiccups, Bombers legacy will be that drought breaking side that was one of the best in the club's history. 2011 of course Scott deserves credit but so does Bomber for assembling a flag capable squad of champions.

Scott's legacy, rightly or wrongly will be as a coach of great home and away sides that couldn't get to grand finals. His first year was fantastic and the rest as a whole have been unsatisfying. To all but a few hardcore fans. Even the year on year fence sitters would agree with this by now.

If Scott wins another flag it will mean a lot more to him than 2011 and be rated higher by everyone in the footy industry. If you don't understand why then you're simply blinded.

And FWIW even with some of his deplorable finals decisions I thought this was his second best year of coaching at the club. Hawkins and Duncan in, plus some first half accuracy, and he had them cruising into a GF against a mediocre GWS.

To put it simply regarding his legacy. He will be remembered as one of geelongs 3 beet coaches of all time. Scott bomber and davis.

He is a legend of our club and a premiership coach

 

[Captain chaos]

Scott lost 11 of his last 15 finals as coach.. now that is what you call a trend!

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

To put it simply regarding his legacy. He will be remembered as one of geelongs 3 beet coaches of all time. Scott bomber and davis.

He is a legend of our club and a premiership coach

No he isn't... His finals record is appaling and he won his grand final in his first year when he had minimal impact on strategy and playing list. What we see NOW is a truer reflection of what Scott has created in our team. Facts.

 

[David the Cat]

No he isn't... His finals record is appaling and he won his grand final in his first year when he had minimal impact on strategy and playing list. What we see NOW is a truer reflection of what Scott has created in our team. Facts.

I would refer you to Steve Johnson's interview with Mike Sheehan recently...

While you choose, as usual, to post a negative "version" on Scott's contribution to the 2011 Premiership, it is in stark contrast to that expressed by SJ who was full of praise for Scott's role during that season and said straight out that we would not have won that flag without Scott's input....he said that, and more...

How extraordinary it is that you failed to balance your viewpoint with some other.......facts!

 

[dazbroncos]

No he isn't... His finals record is appaling and he won his grand final in his first year when he had minimal impact on strategy and playing list. What we see NOW is a truer reflection of what Scott has created in our team. Facts.

I’m not gonna talk about recent stuff - but SJ clearly says that without CS 2011 wound not have happened.
I’ll take a ex player that was there for Bombers duration and there for the GF win over yours. CS was instrumental in 2011.

Go Catters

 

[DanA]

Chris Scott did a great job in 2011. He heavily rotated the midfield, to a level that was unprecedented, and it kept old legs fresh and made clearance work about quality rather than quantity. IMO that more than anything set us up to win the Premiership.

I've got the following issues with Scott

• Too willing to select legacy player (Harry at CHF to keep Lonergan)
• Consistently plays a too tall team (Blicavs on a wing is a sign)
• Has consistently undervalued the role of ruckmen (A lot on list manager but he could have demanded one)
• Took way too long to figure out the importance of forward pressure (We've been crying out for it since about 2013)
• Has never successfully introduced a wrinkle in the game plan to give us an advantage in the finals. (We've tactically been destroyed on a consistent basis)

I've generally been pretty positive but I've shifted to the sack him side. And from what I've seen this trade period I don't hold much hope things will change.

 

[Spazz Cat]

To put it simply regarding his legacy. He will be remembered as one of geelongs 3 beet coaches of all time. Scott bomber and davis.

He is a legend of our club and a premiership coach

Dunno about Top 3. But yeah anyone who's coached a premiership for us will be remembered as a legend of the club.
We haven't won that many.

 

[Max Milburn]

i hate to sound optimistic, because that is seen as a severe character flaw around these parts.
But after 2018, the improvement in all aspects of our performance has been marked.
People saying that Scott (and the other many people responsible for our team) hasn't learned or improved in 2019 are wrong.
Still not perfect (the mystery of post-bye blues unsolved) but FFS we were closer than ever this year.
Carry on with your campaign to sack him, but don't expect everyone to join your crusade.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No he isn't... His finals record is appaling and he won his grand final in his first year when he had minimal impact on strategy and playing list. What we see NOW is a truer reflection of what Scott has created in our team. Facts.

As others below have stated. It was scotts coaching abilitiew which won us the flag. Straight from the mouth of steve johnson and also the book of common sense from what happened in 2010.

Wipe the egg off your face and run along now.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

i hate to sound optimistic, because that is seen as a severe character flaw around these parts.
But after 2018, the improvement in all aspects of our performance has been marked.
People saying that Scott (and the other many people responsible for our team) hasn't learned or improved in 2019 are wrong.
Still not perfect (the mystery of post-bye blues unsolved) but FFS we were closer than ever this year.
Carry on with your campaign to sack him, but don't expect everyone to join your crusade.

The club president has already come out and said these people are a very small minority and poor supporters. He knows his stuff and wouldnt say it unless its true and completely different tovthr opinions inside the club and football industry.

They just happen to be a small noisy group on big footy also. It doesnt reflect at all what supporters across our entire base think

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Dunno about Top 3. But yeah anyone who's coached a premiership for us will be remembered as a legend of the club.
We haven't won that many.

Who exactly would you have ahead?? His record since taking over is only bettered by a couple in our history

 

[Spazz Cat]

Who exactly would you have ahead?? His record since taking over is only bettered by a couple in our history

I'd probs have Reg Hickey at No1. Davis & Bomber after that. If Scott gets another flag though....
Was not around for the first 2 though so just going off what people say.

 

[Spazz Cat]

The club president has already come out and said these people are a very small minority and poor supporters. He knows his stuff and wouldnt say it unless its true and completely different tovthr opinions inside the club and football industry.

They just happen to be a small noisy group on big footy also. It doesnt reflect at all what supporters across our entire base think

Nah, most people think he's a bit of a dickhead.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

I’m not gonna talk about recent stuff - but SJ clearly says that without CS 2011 wound not have happened.
I’ll take a ex player that was there for Bombers duration and there for the GF win over yours. CS was instrumental in 2011.

Go Catters

My belief is that it is more than likely that most decent coaches could have walked into our team in 2011 tweaked a few things and also got us the premiership. The reality is that what we see today is an actual reflection of Scotts influence (he has had 8 years as head coach dictating coaching strategies, list management etc). It is my opinion that he happened to be in the right place at the right time. Others may see it differently and that is fine. The word "legend" should be reserved for those in the top echelon of the games history (Jock McHale, Norm Smith, Leigh Mathews, Clarkson etc). Chris Scott IS NOT in that group no matter how much we all love the Cats. How would you all feel if people started calling Luke Beveridge or Mark Williams legend coaches lol...

 

[Frappe]

I still think Blight should be up in the ratings despite never achieving a flag. Took at least one average team to a GF.

 

[dazbroncos]

My belief is that it is more than likely that most decent coaches could have walked into our team in 2011 tweaked a few things and also got us the premiership. The reality is that what we see today is an actual reflection of Scotts influence (he has had 8 years as head coach dictating coaching strategies, list management etc). It is my opinion that he happened to be in the right place at the right time. Others may see it differently and that is fine. The word "legend" should be reserved for those in the top echelon of the games history (Jock McHale, Norm Smith, Leigh Mathews, Clarkson etc). Chris Scott IS NOT in that group no matter how much we all love the Cats. How would you all feel if people started calling Luke Beveridge or Mark Williams legend coaches lol...

I made no reference nor have I ever said CS and legend in the same sentence.
You specifically made refernce to a point that he had minimal inpact in the 2011 flag.
YOu are 100% wrong on this - players have been quoted as it not being the case.
And now you are quoting some other flag waving posters stuff to divert this.

I make no reference to legend - nor would I as it is not applicable. Regarding 2011 and the GF you are just plain wrong.

GO Catters