Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[BIGGUS 64]

Nothing like a good witch hunt to start the mornin'.

'ITKs' post in the bluemour file... bluemour is a play on the word rumour but blue because Carlton.

Rumour - gossip (usually a mixture of truth and untruth) passed around by word of mouth

You can't be upset with 'ITKs', you chose to read it and take it as truth when in truth... it was a rumour.

Absolutely!
And in fact there was nothing wrong with the intel - but no one can predict how the deals will play out on the day. Different if it turned out that we weren't chasing Papley and Martin at all. But we were.
No point blaming the weather man if it rains when it's not supposed to - he makes the best prediction he can, based on the information he has at the time.

 

[GeoCoulthard]

I cannot believe the hysteria on the board in the last 12 hours. There are so many that cannot accept that we didn’t get what we hoped to achieve. I can accept that. What I cannot accept is the number of people that think that everything is a failure/that we will be mediocre forever because of this/SOS is the biggest failure since history began.

I see the following:

1. The first perceived failure was that we didn’t get Jack Martin who we believe can be a good player but remember, Jack Martin was a player that they didn’t even see as being in their best 22 and they were the bottom side by a mile. Gold Coast wanted TOO MUCH and we were not going to play their game. Ultimately, we can still get our prize by playing the long game – I am confident that by the end of the trading season we will have our man via the PSD or other mechanism and we will not have given in to the extortion attempt by the Gold Coast. This means that this failure will actually end up as a win to us as we will almost certainly get our man and Gold Coast won’t get anything for him. It also enhances SOS’s reputation as someone who is fair to deal with but who will not blink if someone attempts to play him for a patsy.
2. The second perceived failure was not getting Tom Papley. The Swans were prepared to play ball with us but * wouldn’t release their player so a stalemate ensued. In this scenario nothing SOS could do was going to change the situation. Those who think that we could have gotten Papley if we had pushed Sydney harder are kidding themselves. Do you think SOS was just sitting back waiting for the entire trade period and before? No, he would have been trying everything. Our main collateral was pick 9 that we offered up. There were numerous permutations that people suggested but at the end of the day it didn’t happen. Papley would have been good but, again, don’t blame SOS for the failure to get the deal done. Ultimately, blame SOS’s mate for the failure of the deal. It’s reported that * knocked back picks 5 & 9 for a player that doesn’t want to be there and hasn’t been able to get on the park for the best part of 2 years. Does that in any way seem sensible? With an attitude like that we are likely, at least, to enjoy the Schadenfreude that will result from *’s continuing on-field failure.
3. SOS is blamed for not have alternative actions available. We don’t know what he had up his sleeve but who were the possible alternatives? – players that would be little better than list cloggers/marginal AFL players or players that we just didn’t have the currency for and who were unlikely to be released at any price e.g. Wines would have been good but we didn’t have the collateral or the ability to explore because of the other options on the table. I can just imagine SOS saying to Port Adelaide “we are trying for Papley and Martin but if they look like failing in the last 45 minutes of trade do you think we can agree to trade our picks to you for Wines”. We’d have been laughed out of the room.

The sky hasn’t fallen in. We are still a team on the rise and we have players within our ranks that can and will improve. And don’t forget, Eddie wasn’t on the radar when we started to look at Papley. Eddie is never going to be a long term player given his age but he is a more than adequate short term alternative and who is to say that he cannot surprise and go on for several more productive years like a Harvey or Burgoyne.

GO BLUES

 

[Bluey24]

We can debate the Club's performance this trade period all we like - it was shithouse IMO - but the facts are we didn't get our targets and the perception across the industry is that we're (still) a basketcase. And it will have implications for future trade periods; players will hesitate before choosing Carlton, and certainly before publicly nominating Carlton. If it was anyone else, SOS's position would be in serious question.

 

[bluemahogany]

So sick of these Carlton supporters thinking this trade period wasn't a disaster. Look the balls that Brisbane had to trade out its pick. We will still be "rebuilding" next year. What a joke SOS is.

Sydney literally said last night they were not letting Papley go unless a deal was agreed to for Daniher. As for Martin, no one could have possibly foreseen Gold Coast's ineptitude and in the end it will work in our favour.

Losing Papley is devastating and this period is in no way a win, but shit happens sometimes and we lick our wounds and regroup. We get Martin for free, and who knows we might draft the next Stephenson/Rozee with pick 9. Next year we have the ammunition to go for Papley again and more.

 

[Arr0w]

So sick of these Carlton supporters thinking this trade period wasn't a disaster. Look the balls that Brisbane had to trade out its pick. We will still be "rebuilding" next year. What a joke SOS is.

You really have no concept of where our list is at, none

 

[Opine]

Best solution for all parties, Gold Coast delist Martin and he can go to his preferred destination.

Problem is even with live pick trading the AFL will never allow it. Would set a scary precedent (to them) as they are hellbent on restricting players ability to move and the AFLPA's power.

I'm expecting to see an arbitration/waiver system, similar to MLB, proposed by the AFLPA when the current CBA expires. Otherwise we will see far increased incidents of players being refused moves, players (mid to high tier, not the top 5%) resisting long term contracts and players exiting for free.

I posted similar, after you, having not read your post above.

I don’t think they‘ll try to waive arbitration as a means of formal resolution, if that’s what you mean; because resolution outside of a private arbitration process won’t be accompanied by ability to control confidentiality. But they might try to put in place more onerous precedents leading to arbitration. This assumes they already have an arbitration clause in place as part of their framework; I have no idea whether they already do so, or not.

 

[Arr0w]

We can debate the Club's performance this trade period all we like - it was shithouse IMO - but the facts are we didn't get our targets and the perception across the industry is that we're (still) a basketcase. And it will have implications for future trade periods; players will hesitate before choosing Carlton, and certainly publicly nominating Carlton. If it was anyone else, SOS's position would be in serious question.

It will have no implications at all

 

[FRUMPY]

We can debate the Club's performance this trade period all we like - it was shithouse IMO - but the facts are we didn't get our targets and the perception across the industry is that we're (still) a basketcase. And it will have implications for future trade periods; players will hesitate before choosing Carlton, and certainly before publicly nominating Carlton. If it was anyone else, SOS's position would be in serious question.

Players are dictated by their managers and every manager would see we did the best to get the players we wanted - it will have no bearing on players nominating us in the future (especially considering we have more draft picks to make deals)

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Now can we have the GIF version of yesterday?

Geez JAB. Have you had a bad morning?

 

[mochacinolatte]

So sick of these Carlton supporters thinking this trade period wasn't a disaster. Look the balls that Brisbane had to trade out its pick. We will still be "rebuilding" next year. What a joke SOS is.

We will be fine, go have some milk and cookies.

Eddie Betts will kick 40 and we will make top 8.

Pick 9 will win the rising star.

 

[Blue__Balls]

look, I'm not going to slap myself upside the head, whatever that means, but genuinely thankyou for making me feel better about it. Like everyone I'm just dissapointed. But can someone explain the Martin situation to me... Like, the Gold Coast list management team can't be so dumb that Martin can now just go to the pre-season draft, can they? Why is there so much confidence we will just straight up get him for nothing?

Cliff notes:

Martin can nominate for the Pre Season Draft, which takes place after the National Draft is concluded.
He can stipulate his contract terms which need to be matched in order to select him.
The draft order is reverse final ladder - GC, Melbourne, Carlton etc.

So yes, Gold Coast could take him first, and have threatened to. But if he stipulates a one year deal for $1.1mil, they'd have to be willing and able to pay him that and fit it in their salary cap. Ditto Melbourne. Gold Coast are already overpaying players to keep them up north, and would probably cause a mutiny if they paid him double what most of their players are getting just to block a move to Carlton. Melbourne certainly don't have that sort of cap space to play with given they've recruited guys like May, Lever and Tomlinson in the past two off-seasons.

So Carlton get him with Pick 3 in the PSD, pay him his $1.1mil in 2020, and sign an early extension for 3 years on $300k per year. He gets to Carlton, he gets his 4x years @ $500k, and Carlton don't give up any picks for him.

 

[FRUMPY]

look, I'm not going to slap myself upside the head, whatever that means, but genuinely thankyou for making me feel better about it. Like everyone I'm just dissapointed. But can someone explain the Martin situation to me... Like, the Gold Coast list management team can't be so dumb that Martin can now just go to the pre-season draft, can they? Why is there so much confidence we will just straight up get him for nothing?

It is extremely highly unlikely that a club (either GC or Melb) will want to pay Martin $1m for one year without the understanding Martin wont sign an extension (he wont sign an extension because he wants to come to Carlton)

Carlton will pay a massive wage for a 1 year or 2 year contract (not sure if a 1 year contract is allowed) with the understanding he will sign an extension for SFA in the latter years.

But both GC & Melb have 1 moth or so to talk him into changing his mind. See how it goes but im backing he will get to Carlton based on the above.

 

[ferrisb]

I’m a little teapot

I am short and stout....

 

[Heres Waite]

So sick of these Carlton supporters thinking this trade period wasn't a disaster. Look the balls that Brisbane had to trade out its pick. We will still be "rebuilding" next year. What a joke SOS is.

We get Martin for free and keep pick 9. Excellent result for us!

 

[BIGGUS 64]

But the general understanding is that they have inside information. so I don’t treat their posts as just rumours. No harm done apart from getting our hopes high and then having them quashed.

The inside information was 100% accurate: we were after Papley and Martin.
Our ITKs didn't quash our hopes, Sydney and GC did - by demanding too much. SOS is no one's sucker.

 

[ferrisb]

Cliff notes:

Martin can nominate for the Pre Season Draft, which takes place after the National Draft is concluded.
He can stipulate his contract terms which need to be matched in order to select him.
The draft order is reverse final ladder - GC, Melbourne, Carlton etc.

So yes, Gold Coast could take him first, and have threatened to. But if he stipulates a one year deal for $1.1mil, they'd have to be willing and able to pay him that and fit it in their salary cap. Ditto Melbourne. Gold Coast are already overpaying players to keep them up north, and would probably cause a mutiny if they paid him double what most of their players are getting just to block a move to Carlton. Melbourne certainly don't have that sort of cap space to play with given they've recruited guys like May, Lever and Tomlinson in the past two off-seasons.

So Carlton get him with Pick 3 in the PSD, pay him his $1.1mil in 2020, and sign an early extension for 3 years on $300k per year. He gets to Carlton, he gets his 4x years @ $500k, and Carlton don't give up any picks for him.

Well summarised.

Please thank Cliff for his notes

 

[Gavstar]

What were his comments? Did port offer to trade Wines? Even if Wines wanted to leave, Port wouldn't have traded him and not for pick 9 (see Essendon and the swans as an example of clubs not giving up their contracted player)

Given Dodoro's comments I'm guessing all top Victorian team with trade currency where approached on behalf of Wines.

 

[jezzajay]

So is everyone over there little tanty's now... finished tossing the toys out of the pram?

Good... SOS has responded well to what was basically an attempted strong arm effort from GC17, and by extension the AFL, to hand over another top 10 pick to good old Gold Coast.

SOS offered up a number of good deals to GC17, who was apparently under instructions from the AFL to be harder at the negotiating table. But it helps to be tough at the negotiating table when you are in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they were trying to be tough negotiators from a position of weakness. Martin is uncontracted and will now be pi**ed off with GC17 because of the stupid stance that they took... especially after trading Ah Chee for two 2020 picks... I'm sure you all know which rounds they are in. SOS looked at their final offer and told them to pound sand before walking out of the room laughing at their weak efforts.

Mind you, he came across as a bit perturbed with both GC17's list manager and that stupid twat from * who basically wasted the whole trade period for us and pretty much for Shitney. Mind you, he did screw Dodoro over when he got pick 57 and 70 for Phillips and 61 and 72. Shit, I would have taken pick 70 on it's own for Phillips after doing a Grigg on us.

As for the deal with Shitney for Papley, it was always going to be dependent on the Daniher trade and when that collapsed, Shitney no longer needed pick 9 so the Papley deal died in the arse. What sort of deadshit a-hole wants 2 first round picks for a guy who has hardly got on the field in the last 2 years... oh that's right... it's Dodoro. I'm certain that the guy cooks his own bread at home every day... a bit of a master baker if you will.

Now, I've heard a whole lot of "what about plan B" on Farcebook and on Twitter... we should have taken Butler... or Cutler... why didn't we look at some other small forward? Scak SOS... this has been a failure of a trade period!

Why?

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

There is a reason why all 4 of those guys went for late picks and played bugger all games this year... they are not A grade small forwards.

Eddie had a poor year by his standards... he played 21 games and kicked 37 goals. If we want an experienced depth small forward... we could always pick up Jeffy as a DFA.

Now... I don't know about you lot, but I am actually pretty happy that we walked out of the trade period with a good backup to Kreuzer for bugger all, and we also got back Eddie for 12 months to act as a player/mentor. I'm also happy that GC17 have managed to screw themselves with Martin because he is out of contract and will walk into the PSD and probably as for a 12 month 1.2 million dollar contract. Out of GC17, the Dees and us... Carlton are the only team that can afford that sort of contract. I'm not saying that we would be so crass as to tamper with the PSD and get Martin to screw his old club... but fu** it... they have 4 top 20 picks. If they can't pick up some serious talent with that lot, they need to offer SOS 2 million a year to go to the Gold Coast for 3 years and rebuild their entire list.

Thank you for your reasoning/post...I couldn't have said it better myself.
The saltiness in here is akin to throwing the toys out.
We didn't lose anything....as we didn't have what 'we lost' in the first place!
Our list make up for 2020 is not complete...plenty to take place still.

 

[bluebaggerjuls]

a person inside the club has told me that Gold Coast are unlikely to pick up Martin in draft. They just wanted to send a message that they are going to be a hard negotiating team in the future. Not sure if Melbourne are interested in picking him up.

 

[Bostonian]

We were happy to move it on, and were unable to.

Next step, use pick 9 in the draft to pick the best player for our club.

Orrrrrr...do we shut the club down because we couldn’t get Papley?

Nope, but we don't blow smoke up their arse for doing a fantastic job during the trade period.

We had a plan A, seem devoid of a plan B or C.

 

[jd2010]

Question is whether the more realistic targets will benefit the side?

SOS may have the view that’s there’s no point trading if it’s for the sack of trading.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Langdon like mentioned previously. Bonar would be better than picks in the 50s and 60s

 

[Faz 2000]

Cliff notes:

Martin can nominate for the Pre Season Draft, which takes place after the National Draft is concluded.
He can stipulate his contract terms which need to be matched in order to select him.
The draft order is reverse final ladder - GC, Melbourne, Carlton etc.

So yes, Gold Coast could take him first, and have threatened to. But if he stipulates a one year deal for $1.1mil, they'd have to be willing and able to pay him that and fit it in their salary cap. Ditto Melbourne. Gold Coast are already overpaying players to keep them up north, and would probably cause a mutiny if they paid him double what most of their players are getting just to block a move to Carlton. Melbourne certainly don't have that sort of cap space to play with given they've recruited guys like May, Lever and Tomlinson in the past two off-seasons.

So Carlton get him with Pick 3 in the PSD, pay him his $1.1mil in 2020, and sign an early extension for 3 years on $300k per year. He gets to Carlton, he gets his 4x years @ $500k, and Carlton don't give up any picks for him.

Fingers crossed it plays out this way. Will go a long way towards mitigating the disappointment of the outcomes so far.

 

[Blue__Balls]

So then persue targets that have a far higher % of being obtainable.

Nope, but we don't blow smoke up their arse for doing a fantastic job during the trade period.

We had a plan A, seem devoid of a plan B or C.

Maybe plan B is drafting a small forward to learn from Eddie...





Idiots on the internet assuming because Jon Ralph or Terry Wallace haven't reported our "plan B" that we don't have one...

 

[BIGGUS 64]

look, I'm not going to slap myself upside the head, whatever that means, but genuinely thankyou for making me feel better about it. Like everyone I'm just dissapointed. But can someone explain the Martin situation to me... Like, the Gold Coast list management team can't be so dumb that Martin can now just go to the pre-season draft, can they? Why is there so much confidence we will just straight up get him for nothing?

Maybe they're resigned to the fact that he's leaving one way or the other and were just hoping that SOS would panic and pay overs just to get the deal done.

 

[FRUMPY]

Nope, but we don't blow smoke up their arse for doing a fantastic job during the trade period.

We had a plan A, seem devoid of a plan B or C.

We targeted those we wanted - you want us to target players we don't want? Why would we do that? to get a higher rating from journos on he winner/loser scale?