Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[HarryFlashman]

Seriously, what would that have achieved?
We would be in exactly the same position, except SOS would have looked pig headed unnecessarily.

SOS also went out of his way to enable trades/pick swaps with * & Sydney, he acted like a complete professional. U can’t have a problem with someone treating others like he wants to be treated & leading by example not by empty threats or promises

 

[jon0011]

Hey all,

Sorry if this has been discuss at all over the alst few pages but would we still be interested in Sam Gray? I think he is uncontracted so could also walk to the national or pre-season drafts? Would be nice consolation prize after not getting the Smear

 

[HarryFlashman]

Bah Humbug. Just got my x-ray scan back from my GP, turns out I have a broken ankle that requires surgery.

Still more annoyed about missing out on Papley and Martin.

#NightmareOnElmerSt

Epworth Sports Medical - Dr Daff
The team at epworth are all elite AFL docs & amazing to deal with, you also get the AFL surgeons

 

[ParapMarkets]

Probably best not to listen to the media today.
They'll have a field day for us not hitting our targets.

Can't help Dodoro not wanting to trade Daniher, I guess.
Said it many times earlier that once GC got all they wanted and more by way of 'support', they'd be puffing their chests out....and so they did.

It is what it is now and just want us to somehow lift that forward line without the addition of Papley.
I also wonder as how we'll review our efforts through this trade period. Questions will be asked, one would assume.

Yep, you mentioned it several times harks. A lot of us felt that way but I guess I hoped in the end that we could manage another way.

I feel as though GC were sending a message and they really had very little to lose because of the draft picks they were given. Cameron knew the egg would be all on Silvagni’s face if the trade failed, especially so once Papley was looking dead. Hearing him boast about his “strong draft hand” was all we needed to confirm what many of us were worried about after that draft pick package.

When asked if they offered us pick 15 for pick 9 and Martin, Cameron quickly responded with “and a second round pick”. He wanted it known the high price and the tough stance they were sticking by.

Anyway, we move on. If we can get Martin in the pre-season draft then we will enter next year with a full array of draft picks and Martin which would be an excellent outcome. The impact we don’t know is he this will affect players nominating us in the future.

 

[Blue__Balls]

When I say reach, i dont mean in terms of picks, I mean compared to your/club's rating of draftees

If you rate the best small forward at 16, you are bypassing 8 other players rated better, no club would do take that risk

Think it's a little more complex than that. Players 8-16 could well be ranked on a number of different factors, and there might not be much of a difference between them. If they'd all be scored out of 100 by the club, it could be that Player 8 is a 78, and Player 16 is a 75, but then Player 18 could be a 60.

I think the rating of the player is more important than their number on a sequential list.

Agree 110% that you shoudn't take a significantly lower rated player just because of their position. But a slight reach...understandable. And with the advent of live trading, you can split the different anyway in some cases - trade down to a pick that you think will get that preferred type, and get another pick or pick upgrade back to improve/add another selection.

 

[Gethelred]

There's probably a position somewhere between taking up pitchforks and gulping down the Kool-Aid, don't you think, folks?

Not on this board.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Epworth Sports Medical - Dr Daff
The team at epworth are all elite AFL docs & amazing to deal with, you also get the AFL surgeons

Don't have private medical insurance, getting it down at the Austin, which is still a fine hospital

 

[GoBlues!]

Imagine what the Suns will ask for in 12 months time when the Crows and Port come for Lukosius

Imagine what extra concessions the AFL will conjure up when he goes.

 

[Blue Runnings]

Many of you need to get a grip. Some carry on as if they were there and know every little detail that went on. Circumstances change quickly.

How about we be thankful that we didn’t over pay or give up one of our young talent. Because if we did imagine the melts. Talk about no win situation. Similarly constant whinging about ITK posters providing info and they do a great job at giving correct info at the time, but again things change in this industry so quickly. Again no win situation for them.

How about we look forward to our young group continuing to grow and develop together. Many are now in the 3rd to 5th years and organic growth will happen. Get excited about a rejuvenated Eddie and watch him come out an kick 40 - 60 goals.

If we get Martin for free, then bonus. If not move on.

How about we act like true supporters not feral supporters eating our own. The “new” Carlton has an exciting vibe, players wanting to come to us is a good thing ... enjoy it and embrace it!

 

[JuddgementDay]

I guess we are in a hurry to be a more competitive side, and with Papley and Martin, it would helped our course - so what have we lost?
Just the opportunity to get to our destination faster...

But, if we get Martin during PSD we should be ok with Eddie and DC for a year as small forwards and got all our picks to go hard again next year.
We just need to build from within and continue to progress from where we left off once Teague took over
Although, disappointed we didn't get Papley - Knowing the reasons (i.e. not overpaying too much), I can get over it pretty quickly!

 

[teagueyubeauty]

yeah but they are hoping the demons get him before us.

Melbourne added a mill to their salary cap this off season, minus whatever a 34 year old sniper in Lewis was getting.

No chance of matching, Martin will be at Carlton nothing surer

 

[Jorge]

I would have done the same thing if I was Gold Coast. Hopefully it comes back to bite them in the short term.

I would have done the same thing if I was Essendon. They’ve built for the now.

I thought Sydney would still deal Papley considering they got Taylor.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I feel for Martin - seems he was played as a bit of a pawn from GCS so they could 'make a statement'. Disgusting behavior from GCS with no compassion at all for the player who has done his time at the club.

They obviously value him so highly that they dump him to the NEAFL.

 

[zeggie]

Imagine what the Suns will ask for in 12 months time when the Crows and Port come for Lukosius

Crows and Port will consider dealing with the wooden spooners, provided it's not Gold Coast, and pick swap. Leave Gold Coast out of it. Luko walks for nothing. Precedent has been set. Cheaper than giving Gold Coast a king's ransom.

 

[Monkey King]

I can't actually hate on Essendon for the Daniher/Papley trade. Sydney wouldn't even put 5 on the table, and flatly refused to trade Papley unless the Daniher trade went through.

Not sure they ever had genuine intentions of dealing. Just kicked tyres for a week and a half.

Yeah. Can’t blame for them holding their players to their contracts.

Gold Coast were being pricks, but thanks to the AFL’s generosity they can afford to be, and with southern clubs already planning raids on their players, you can see why they did what they did. With Martin it’s small value lost at this point to make a statement on more vital players later on; that the Suns will set the terms, contract or not.

I hope now Martin’s manager will be meeting with the Dees with the story that Martin’s poor form is due to unhappiness and he’s got guys he knows at Carlton in Cripps & SPS and a mentor in Betts, and that’s it’s really in the best interests of all to just let the guy get to his destination.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I can't actually hate on Essendon for the Daniher/Papley trade. Sydney wouldn't even put 5 on the table, and flatly refused to trade Papley unless the Daniher trade went through.

Not sure they ever had genuine intentions of dealing. Just kicked tyres for a week and a half.

Wrong, Tom Harley said on radio this morning they offered 5 & 9 and Essendon rejected it

 

[ParapMarkets]

You don't reach for a small forward, or any other type at pick 9 in the draft, you draft best available

Who do you like that you think might be available around our pick?

 

[Fat Kent]

Wrong, Tim Harley said on radio this morning they offered 5 & 9 and Essendon rejected it

Dodoro said Sydney's final offer was 9 and a future first.

 

[FRUMPY]

Wrong, Tom Harley said on radio this morning they offered 5 & 9 and Essendon rejected it

Dodoro said Sydney's final offer was 9 and a future first.

So to stop this debate:

From the start Essendon said pick 5 & 9 wont be good enough for a deal - swans can say that offer was rejected before they made the offer and bombers can say it was never offered (as they got I before it was an offer)

Either way, both teams knew 5 & 9 wouldn't get the deal done.

Semantics

 

[Blue and Silver]

I have skipped the last 30-odd pages, so please excuse the lack of direct knowledge of any specific melts.

Basically my take is as follows:

We staked a value on players that we thought was fair, Papley at a mid-teens, Martin at a late teens/early twenties.

We didn't want to over-pay. The clubs in question did not believe that represented value.

Sydney has elected not to deal Papley at all, and I do not believe this was a case of us not coming to the table.

Gold Coast wanted to make a statement with their highest profile player wanting out this off-season. But their posturing will cost them whatever they were going to get. If Gold Coast force the issue and re-draft they will be receiving a black eye from the AFLPA. Martin will walk, and probably to us.

Neither of these players are crucial. Nothing this off-season is crucial (for the first time in a very long time).

The list is in very good shape, I will do a list-management assessment in the coming days, but basically we have an u/23 side to die for, many of whom are about to hit the acknowledged maturity milestones.

Papley was never going to be the difference between bottom 4 and top 8. Remember he played in a side who did not do much better than us. Martin would be coming from the worst side in the league. They are cream players, whose offensive abilities, when built upon strong base structures and players can have a multiplying effect on potential.

We will be a good side next year, and pending injuries and luck we could be top 8.

Pick 9 could be a very good player ( I have a few I am partial to) or it could be split into multiple draft picks and multiple needs addressed.

We still have options including DFA's and mature age draftees who could come in and have a big impact.

The world has not ended, and this was not a failure, it was just not a success.

 

[ParapMarkets]

I would have done the same thing if I was Gold Coast. Hopefully it comes back to bite them in the short term.

It’s really not going to bite them in the short term, that’s why it was an easy decision for them to make. They simply have a fantastic draft hand and could afford to make this stance with next to no impact thanks to the draft picks they received.

 

[Triniboy]

I guess we are in a hurry to be a more competitive side, and with Papley and Martin, it would helped our course - so what have we lost?
Just the opportunity to get to our destination faster...

But, if we get Martin during PSD we should be ok with Eddie and DC for a year as small forwards and got all our picks to go hard again next year.
We just need to build from within and continue to progress from where we left off once Teague took over
Although, disappointed we didn't get Papley - Knowing the reasons (i.e. not overpaying too much), I can get over it pretty quickly!

We have zero to loose by having a physical done on Harley Bennell, mental evaluation is another thing.
If all's good an opportunity exists for Eddie to do "his thing" by exploring where Bennell's head space is with a view of either picking him up in the pre-season or rookie drafts. I would offer minimum salary with a 1 + 2year contract.

 

[james Dean]

Ironic really given they will probably only get one first round pick next year. They better hope he re-ups

 

[Arr0w]

Think it's a little more complex than that. Players 8-16 could well be ranked on a number of different factors, and there might not be much of a difference between them. If they'd all be scored out of 100 by the club, it could be that Player 8 is a 78, and Player 16 is a 75, but then Player 18 could be a 60.

I think the rating of the player is more important than their number on a sequential list.

Agree 110% that you shoudn't take a significantly lower rated player just because of their position. But a slight reach...understandable. And with the advent of live trading, you can split the different anyway in some cases - trade down to a pick that you think will get that preferred type, and get another pick or pick upgrade back to improve/add another selection.

I agree, there are many factors to consider. Not only each draftee's strengths and weaknesses, but now in the modern game, adaptability and flexibility plays a major role in that analysis. As a small forward Papley would be rated better than say a Edwards (Tigers) type, but as a whole, Edwards probably rates higher due to his versatility, being able to play a number of roles.

I have this type of debate with a long time mate, one of the better posters on the WC board, who is frustrated that his club has not drafted a decent midfielder since the likes of Shuey/Sheed. Yet, as I remind him constantly, his club's drafting over the last 2 decades would rate top 4.

Their theory is clear, take best available in the draft(if talls and smalls are rated the same take the tall), trade for needs. Due to having one of the better records at talent identification and minimising busts, they are happy to pay for needs. Pick 18 = Redden, Jetta for Sinclair, Yeo and now Kelly, slight overs, but makes them a serious contender for the next 3-4 years. So they have plenty of time to replenish from below

I wouldn't reach for a small forward, as I don't consider the likes of Weightman in that class and I rate Taylor well ahead of him, who is more than just a small forward

 

[Wily trout]

Everyone just needs to take a breath. We got Betts. We'll get Martin for free in the draft. Leaving only Papley we missed out on, simply because we're not going to pay overs for a small forward. A midfielder, maybe.. But not a small forward.

Add Newnes as a DFA and it's three players we've added which could very well slot straight in to our best 18.

That's without including the top 10 draft pick we're about to add to the list as well.

Perspective, people.

This. Suns May have been trying to send a strong message that they are not going to be pushovers (but in my opinion came across as dicks), but SOS sent his own message as well I reckon about being nobody’s fool. We have a great new coach and an awesome young list, which will grow in confidence next year. We have Murph, Ed and Cripps in the middle to enable the kids to develop and now have Eddie to help organise the forward line. I see no reason why we won’t get even better next year.