Religion Christianity and Homosexuality

[SBD Gonzalez]

OK, prompted by the Sydney Anglican Archbishop's call this week for gays to leave the church -

This is for all the practising Christians out there.

The Bible doesn't actually say a lot about homosexuality - a few mentions in the Old Testament, and some choice words from St Paul in the New.

But, let's assume (not that I'm necessarily saying this is so) that in those few mentions, the Bible is unequivocally against homosexuality.

Now, as we all know, in the Old Testament, there are numerous prohibitions that no practising Christian feels obliged to follow anymore (eating shellfish etc).

Could someone please explain to me, in simple, logical language, why do some Christians insist the Bible is dead against homosexuality, but not these other weird and wonderful prohibitions?

I would like someone to explain what look to me like massive inconsistencies.

What is the official conservative, anti-gay rationale on following some biblical laws, but not others?

 

[raskolnikov]

Simple. People use religion to justify their bigotry.

 

[raskolnikov]

 

[M Malice]

If the old testament is the word of god why did it have to be reviewed, reinterpreted and edited if god is an omnipresent, omniscient, ineffable creator of all things?

Why pick and choose what you want to follow if god is so infallible?

In saying that... IMO the whole god/jesus/creator story strikes me as gibberish horseshit.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

You're seeing sentences and not paragraphs.

You're seeing individual scenes and not the story.

The original bibles, that some faith still Follow. Is an application of science.

Many see some Sci fi movies as truth, prophetic.

But you obviously. Haven't heard of a guy called Ham in the bible or a town called Soddom.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

The natural religions of this earth, are still practiced.

There's a religion tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands, that has a story of a yellow lizard living under ground. The religion states that if you dig him up, wake him up, he'll be mad as phuq and destroy anything.

This is a story so Old, of the very area that has the biggest known uranium deposit

Another religion abit further north has a story of a section of ground poisened by an evil spirit and you don't dig or live here. It's one big uranium deposit underneath.

Don't question the story's, question the message and who gains from that

 

[Gough]

Certainly as far as the moral majority, Jerry Falwell mob of dribblers in America went, homosexuality only really became the big issue for them post 1989 on the back of them no longer having to warn about the evils of communism yet still needing a scapegoat for their self righteous moral outrage. That it coincided with Aids was just fortuitous for them. Note that having largely been defeated by the gay rights movement these same people are now transferring that same self righteous moral outrage onto the trans community.

 

[evo]

If the Greco-Roman religions had've prevailed rather than the Hebrew one, sodomites would've probably been largely left alone in the West I suspect. The Athenians and Spartans were totally cool with a bit of buggery before battle.

Blame Paul I suppose, he was too good of a publicist.

 

[Seeds]

It bemuses me that people look at religious people and think its their views on homosexuality that are odd.

These people believe in a magic fairy in the sky that determines right and wrong ffs.

 

[Lethality]

I would like someone to explain what look to me like massive inconsistencies.

What is the official conservative, anti-gay rationale on following some biblical laws, but not others?

Modern practice of Christianity depends on an inconsistent read of the Bible. Why should homophobes be held to a higher standard?

 

[Roylion]

If the old testament is the word of god

The prohibition against homosexuality in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is no more than a human construct formed by a Bronze Age community that had their own all too human agenda for banning the practice. It has nothing to do with the divine or 'divine law' 'which in reality does not exist, except in the human imagination.

The early Israelites / Hebrews who worshipped Yahweh, (and all Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship Yahweh) developed a prohibition on homosexuality because homosexuality posed a threat to societies with a high infant mortality rate and a very slow population growth. The Hebrews / Israelites were originally a minority in the land of Canaan and were trying to increase their numbers. So there was a practical human reason to discourage homosexuality. Hence homeosexuality's prohibition in the Book of Leviticus.

Homosexuality was also associated with the rival worship of Baal and hence was another good reason for the priests of Yahweh to speak out against the practice.

The ancient worship of Baal involved imitative magic and the performance of rituals, including sacred prostitution. Sexual acts by both male and female temple prostitutes were understood to arouse Baal who then brought rain to make Mother Earth fertile when crops were abundant. When that occurred Baal was praised and thanked for his abundant rain.

So in a land where the worshippers of Baal and Yahweh (with the worshippers of Yahweh originally in the minority) lived side by side it wasn't surprising that the original Temple compound of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem contained a room for the kadesh (the male prostitutes) who was not removed until the reign of King Josiah. It was then the priests of Yahweh finally won their long standing battle against the worshippers of Baal. It was all about maintaining power over the society that the priests of Yahweh existed in.

As much of the Old Testament was first written down during the reign of King Josiah, it's not surprising that the Old Testament is a extended Yahwist propaganda tract, preaching against the cult of Baal and of course its attendant practices of worship, including homosexuality. In order to defeat the cult of Baal, it became necessary to demonize the cult and to represent Baal as an evil god - a demon / a fallen 'angel' - hostile to God (Yahweh) and therefore humankind. Hence Baal's symbols, the snake and the bull became incorporated into images of Satan / Lucifer and casting homosexuality, anal sex and the like as a transgression against 'divine law' thereby casting the followers of Baal as 'ungodly' or 'evil'

So homosexuality, anal sex, masturbation etc. etc. is not actually hated by 'God' nor is 'God' concerned about what humans do with their genitals, whether in or outside socially approved relationships. Homosexuality's continued condemnation and demonisation by modern religious fundamentalists as a 'sin', is really nothing more than an extension of the struggle by the worshippers of Yahweh to impose their patriarchal ideology upon the Hebrew / Jewish people. That is continued in modern times by the adherents of the Abrahamic religions (who are essentially the modern worshippers of Yahweh) who in turn seek to impose their ideology upon the wider population.

Research also indicates that various forms of homosexuality are found in every major animal group and every major geographic region.

According to Canadian biologist Bruce Bagemihl author of the book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity the animal kingdom engages in homosexual behavior "with much greater sexual diversity – including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex – than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."

Simon LeVay, the neuroscientist who has specialised in sexual orientation, stated that "homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world,[however] it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities."

Some examples of animals where homosexual behaviour has been observed to varying degrees include, black swans, penguins, domesticated sheep (8-10% of rams engage in exclusively homosexual behaviour), vultures, pigeons, some species of dolphins, bison, bats, elephants, giraffes, marmots, lions, polecats, bonobos (which appear to be a fully bisexual species), orangutans, various species of monkeys, hyenas, various species of lizards, tortoises and at least 110 species of insects and arachnids, including dragonflies, fruit flies and butterflies. Various species of fish including salmon have also been observed to engage in homosexual behaviours.

It's not surprising therefore that homosexuality also exists in the human species.

 

[raskolnikov]

I have two male dogs who are forever going at it.

 

[its free real estate]

If the Greco-Roman religions had've prevailed rather than the Hebrew one, sodomites would've probably been largely left alone in the West I suspect. The Athenians and Spartans were totally cool with a bit of buggery before battle.

Blame Paul I suppose, he was too good of a publicist.

Dunno, that seemed more like bacha bazi than what we call homosexuality now.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

OK, prompted by the Sydney Anglican Archbishop's call this week for gays to leave the church -

This is for all the practising Christians out there.

The Bible doesn't actually say a lot about homosexuality - a few mentions in the Old Testament, and some choice words from St Paul in the New.

But, let's assume (not that I'm necessarily saying this is so) that in those few mentions, the Bible is unequivocally against homosexuality.

Now, as we all know, in the Old Testament, there are numerous prohibitions that no practising Christian feels obliged to follow anymore (eating shellfish etc).

Could someone please explain to me, in simple, logical language, why do some Christians insist the Bible is dead against homosexuality, but not these other weird and wonderful prohibitions?

I would like someone to explain what look to me like massive inconsistencies.

What is the official conservative, anti-gay rationale on following some biblical laws, but not others?

So he wants gays to leave the church?

Lol, they'll have next to no one left working for them!

 

[Frank Bunn]

Research also indicates that various forms of homosexuality are found in every major animal group and every major geographic region.

According to Canadian biologist Bruce Bagemihl author of the book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity the animal kingdom engages in homosexual behavior "with much greater sexual diversity – including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex – than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."

Simon LeVay, the neuroscientist who has specialised in sexual orientation, stated that "homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world,[however] it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities."

Some examples of animals where homosexual behaviour has been observed to varying degrees include, black swans, penguins, domesticated sheep (8-10% of rams engage in exclusively homosexual behaviour), vultures, pigeons, some species of dolphins, bison, bats, elephants, giraffes, marmots, lions, polecats, bonobos (which appear to be a fully bisexual species), orangutans, various species of monkeys, hyenas, various species of lizards, tortoises and at least 110 species of insects and arachnids, including dragonflies, fruit flies and butterflies. Various species of fish including salmon have also been observed to engage in homosexual behaviours.

It's not surprising therefore that homosexuality also exists in the human species.

The terms need to be more precisely defined.

As per your quote by Simon LeVay, it is very uncommon that animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in same sex sexual behavior to the exclusion of opposite sex activities. We should not conflate occasional same sex sexual behaviour in animals with homosexuality - which is a permanent and exclusive preference for same sex sexual behaviour in humans. Homosexuality is a modern Western concept. Before about 140 years ago only the sexual acts were spoken of. Homosexuality has also since become a psychic and social identity, with associated political entities. Whether used as a descriptor of long term and exclusive sexual preference - or about identity, references to homosexuality only apply to humans.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Thanks everyone, some really interesting responses here, but we're not really getting into the point I was wanting to get into -

There are plenty of practising Christians on BF.

Is one of them prepared to intellectually defend Sydney Anglican Archbishop Glenn Davies' insistence that gays leave the church?

To me, the Bible is more than a little contradictory in many regards, but he seems pretty confident he has the weight of the Bible behind him.

So what would be his reasoning? I'd really like to hear that.

(Or even, can a practising Christian on here who disagrees with his stance, try and play devil's advocate?)

Because if his stance is as logically unsupportable as it looks to me (as an outsider with zero skin in the game), why doesn't someone close to him straighten him out on it?

 

[Chief]

The prohibition against homosexuality in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is no more than a human construct formed by a Bronze Age community that had their own all too human agenda for banning the practice. It has nothing to do with the divine or 'divine law' 'which in reality does not exist, except in the human imagination.

The early Israelites / Hebrews who worshipped Yahweh, (and all Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship Yahweh) developed a prohibition on homosexuality because homosexuality posed a threat to societies with a high infant mortality rate and a very slow population growth. The Hebrews / Israelites were originally a minority in the land of Canaan and were trying to increase their numbers. So there was a practical human reason to discourage homosexuality. Hence homeosexuality's prohibition in the Book of Leviticus.

Homosexuality was also associated with the rival worship of Baal and hence was another good reason for the priests of Yahweh to speak out against the practice.

The ancient worship of Baal involved imitative magic and the performance of rituals, including sacred prostitution. Sexual acts by both male and female temple prostitutes were understood to arouse Baal who then brought rain to make Mother Earth fertile when crops were abundant. When that occurred Baal was praised and thanked for his abundant rain.

So in a land where the worshippers of Baal and Yahweh (with the worshippers of Yahweh originally in the minority) lived side by side it wasn't surprising that the original Temple compound of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem contained a room for the kadesh (the male prostitutes) who was not removed until the reign of King Josiah. It was then the priests of Yahweh finally won their long standing battle against the worshippers of Baal. It was all about maintaining power over the society that the priests of Yahweh existed in.

As much of the Old Testament was first written down during the reign of King Josiah, it's not surprising that the Old Testament is a extended Yahwist propaganda tract, preaching against the cult of Baal and of course its attendant practices of worship, including homosexuality. In order to defeat the cult of Baal, it became necessary to demonize the cult and to represent Baal as an evil god - a demon / a fallen 'angel' - hostile to God (Yahweh) and therefore humankind. Hence Baal's symbols, the snake and the bull became incorporated into images of Satan / Lucifer and casting homosexuality, anal sex and the like as a transgression against 'divine law' thereby casting the followers of Baal as 'ungodly' or 'evil'

So homosexuality, anal sex, masturbation etc. etc. is not actually hated by 'God' nor is 'God' concerned about what humans do with their genitals, whether in or outside socially approved relationships. Homosexuality's continued condemnation and demonisation by modern religious fundamentalists as a 'sin', is really nothing more than an extension of the struggle by the worshippers of Yahweh to impose their patriarchal ideology upon the Hebrew / Jewish people. That is continued in modern times by the adherents of the Abrahamic religions (who are essentially the modern worshippers of Yahweh) who in turn seek to impose their ideology upon the wider population.

Research also indicates that various forms of homosexuality are found in every major animal group and every major geographic region.

According to Canadian biologist Bruce Bagemihl author of the book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity the animal kingdom engages in homosexual behavior "with much greater sexual diversity – including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex – than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."

Simon LeVay, the neuroscientist who has specialised in sexual orientation, stated that "homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world,[however] it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities."

Some examples of animals where homosexual behaviour has been observed to varying degrees include, black swans, penguins, domesticated sheep (8-10% of rams engage in exclusively homosexual behaviour), vultures, pigeons, some species of dolphins, bison, bats, elephants, giraffes, marmots, lions, polecats, bonobos (which appear to be a fully bisexual species), orangutans, various species of monkeys, hyenas, various species of lizards, tortoises and at least 110 species of insects and arachnids, including dragonflies, fruit flies and butterflies. Various species of fish including salmon have also been observed to engage in homosexual behaviours.

It's not surprising therefore that homosexuality also exists in the human species.

I’ve missed you, dude!

 

[Madison]

The prohibition against homosexuality in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is no more than a human construct formed by a Bronze Age community that had their own all too human agenda for banning the practice. It has nothing to do with the divine or 'divine law' 'which in reality does not exist, except in the human imagination.

The early Israelites / Hebrews who worshipped Yahweh, (and all Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship Yahweh) developed a prohibition on homosexuality because homosexuality posed a threat to societies with a high infant mortality rate and a very slow population growth. The Hebrews / Israelites were originally a minority in the land of Canaan and were trying to increase their numbers. So there was a practical human reason to discourage homosexuality. Hence homeosexuality's prohibition in the Book of Leviticus.

Homosexuality was also associated with the rival worship of Baal and hence was another good reason for the priests of Yahweh to speak out against the practice.

The ancient worship of Baal involved imitative magic and the performance of rituals, including sacred prostitution. Sexual acts by both male and female temple prostitutes were understood to arouse Baal who then brought rain to make Mother Earth fertile when crops were abundant. When that occurred Baal was praised and thanked for his abundant rain.

So in a land where the worshippers of Baal and Yahweh (with the worshippers of Yahweh originally in the minority) lived side by side it wasn't surprising that the original Temple compound of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem contained a room for the kadesh (the male prostitutes) who was not removed until the reign of King Josiah. It was then the priests of Yahweh finally won their long standing battle against the worshippers of Baal. It was all about maintaining power over the society that the priests of Yahweh existed in.

As much of the Old Testament was first written down during the reign of King Josiah, it's not surprising that the Old Testament is a extended Yahwist propaganda tract, preaching against the cult of Baal and of course its attendant practices of worship, including homosexuality. In order to defeat the cult of Baal, it became necessary to demonize the cult and to represent Baal as an evil god - a demon / a fallen 'angel' - hostile to God (Yahweh) and therefore humankind. Hence Baal's symbols, the snake and the bull became incorporated into images of Satan / Lucifer and casting homosexuality, anal sex and the like as a transgression against 'divine law' thereby casting the followers of Baal as 'ungodly' or 'evil'

So homosexuality, anal sex, masturbation etc. etc. is not actually hated by 'God' nor is 'God' concerned about what humans do with their genitals, whether in or outside socially approved relationships. Homosexuality's continued condemnation and demonisation by modern religious fundamentalists as a 'sin', is really nothing more than an extension of the struggle by the worshippers of Yahweh to impose their patriarchal ideology upon the Hebrew / Jewish people. That is continued in modern times by the adherents of the Abrahamic religions (who are essentially the modern worshippers of Yahweh) who in turn seek to impose their ideology upon the wider population.

Research also indicates that various forms of homosexuality are found in every major animal group and every major geographic region.

According to Canadian biologist Bruce Bagemihl author of the book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity the animal kingdom engages in homosexual behavior "with much greater sexual diversity – including homosexual, bisexual and nonreproductive sex – than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept."

Simon LeVay, the neuroscientist who has specialised in sexual orientation, stated that "homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world,[however] it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities."

Some examples of animals where homosexual behaviour has been observed to varying degrees include, black swans, penguins, domesticated sheep (8-10% of rams engage in exclusively homosexual behaviour), vultures, pigeons, some species of dolphins, bison, bats, elephants, giraffes, marmots, lions, polecats, bonobos (which appear to be a fully bisexual species), orangutans, various species of monkeys, hyenas, various species of lizards, tortoises and at least 110 species of insects and arachnids, including dragonflies, fruit flies and butterflies. Various species of fish including salmon have also been observed to engage in homosexual behaviours.

It's not surprising therefore that homosexuality also exists in the human species.

What a response. That was really interesting.

Out of curiosity, where did you get so knowledgeable? Is Religion and biology/sexuality just in an interest or do you have a career in this area?

 

[eagleskickass]

Without getting into a tit for tat, a very general overview answer (without quoting chapter and verse) would be as follows;

1. Making an argument against homosexuality utilising Old Testament passages is mostly futile for the very reasons you suggest, it opens up to questions of 'picking and choosing'.

2. Rather than making an argument against homosexuality, most biblical scholars would make an argument for heterosexual marriage. They'd focus entirely on the New Testament picture of marriage, and its purposes. All mentions of healthy marriage in the New Testament assumes male/female.

3. Whenever Jesus was questioned about marriage and divorce, he always pointed back to the created order and male / female nature of the created order. However, the church's wider acceptance of divorce does create a problem because that seems just as clear as the teaching around homosexual marriage in the New Testament.

3. With the advent of the pill, condoms and other safety precautions and with advances in fertilisation techniques, marriage and reproduction have delineated somewhat. Much of the teaching around marriage is focused on providing the best family unit for healthy relationships. Some of this is challenged by modern advances. This is probably why the Catholic Church fought against these things as they do blur the lines some what.

5. The dysfunction of heterosexual marriages is often used to justify homosexual marriage. I.e. 'Many straight people make terrible parents and many gay couples are great parents, therefore it can't be wrong'. The biblical argument would likely suggest the problem is the dysfunction in heterosexual relationships due to sin, not the existence of good, loving, gay families (of which there are many) proving they should be fine.

6. There must be something special about marriage's place in the created world because Jesus himself says there will not be marriage in eternity. It plays some special role in this epoch. This really is an important point. For marriage to disappear in eternity suggests there really is a special role for it in this age.

There is much nuance to all of this of course. Another challenge of course if that Christianity starts its theology at the cross and works its way back from there (i.e. if Jesus really was the son of God, really did live, die and rise again, then everything else will work itself out). Most people however will work their way up to that part of theology. The most important theology (essentials) are around the person and role that Jesus played. There is much diversity and nuance around many other aspects of theology and most Christians live in tension with this.

 

[skilts]

If the Greco-Roman religions had've prevailed rather than the Hebrew one, sodomites would've probably been largely left alone in the West I suspect. The Athenians and Spartans were totally cool with a bit of buggery before battle.

Blame Paul I suppose, he was too good of a publicist.

He made his (partial) namesake, Paul Joseph Goebbels, look like an amateur.

 

[skilts]

What a response. That was really interesting.

Out of curiosity, where did you get so knowledgeable? Is Religion and biology/sexuality just in an interest or do you have a career in this area?

He's a highly accomplished historian, who has physically visited a lot of the sites he mentions. It would seem you have not previously encountered his work. You have missed something special.

He has taught history over several decades, and by now definitely deserves to be be retired, but he can't help himself, as is evidenced by his contributions on these boards. Everything he writes is original, the result of his own, vast store of knowledge. He is a national treasure. - a Renaissance man - an example of the way people were once taught to revere scholarship.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Without getting into a tit for tat, a very general overview answer (without quoting chapter and verse) would be as follows;

1. Making an argument against homosexuality utilising Old Testament passages is mostly futile for the very reasons you suggest, it opens up to questions of 'picking and choosing'.

2. Rather than making an argument against homosexuality, most biblical scholars would make an argument for heterosexual marriage. They'd focus entirely on the New Testament picture of marriage, and its purposes. All mentions of healthy marriage in the New Testament assumes male/female.

3. Whenever Jesus was questioned about marriage and divorce, he always pointed back to the created order and male / female nature of the created order. However, the church's wider acceptance of divorce does create a problem because that seems just as clear as the teaching around homosexual marriage in the New Testament.

3. With the advent of the pill, condoms and other safety precautions and with advances in fertilisation techniques, marriage and reproduction have delineated somewhat. Much of the teaching around marriage is focused on providing the best family unit for healthy relationships. Some of this is challenged by modern advances. This is probably why the Catholic Church fought against these things as they do blur the lines some what.

5. The dysfunction of heterosexual marriages is often used to justify homosexual marriage. I.e. 'Many straight people make terrible parents and many gay couples are great parents, therefore it can't be wrong'. The biblical argument would likely suggest the problem is the dysfunction in heterosexual relationships due to sin, not the existence of good, loving, gay families (of which there are many) proving they should be fine.

6. There must be something special about marriage's place in the created world because Jesus himself says there will not be marriage in eternity. It plays some special role in this epoch. This really is an important point. For marriage to disappear in eternity suggests there really is a special role for it in this age.

There is much nuance to all of this of course. Another challenge of course if that Christianity starts its theology at the cross and works its way back from there (i.e. if Jesus really was the son of God, really did live, die and rise again, then everything else will work itself out). Most people however will work their way up to that part of theology. The most important theology (essentials) are around the person and role that Jesus played. There is much diversity and nuance around many other aspects of theology and most Christians live in tension with this.

Excellent post, thank you very much. Let me sit on it for a bit and take it all in.

 

[Madison]

He's a highly accomplished historian, who has physically visited a lot of the sites he mentions. It would seem you have not previously encountered his work. You have missed something special.

He has taught history over several decades, and by now definitely deserves to be be retired, but he can't help himself, as is evidenced by his contributions on these boards. Everything he writes is original, the result of his own, vast store of knowledge. He is a national treasure. - a Renaissance man - an example of the way people were once taught to revere scholarship.

No I'm new to this part of bigfooty. Normally just stick to the Richmond board. Politics etc. on any kind of social media platform is just so toxic I try to avoid it. But I'm off work for a little while and procrastinating uni assignments so have waded in (for better or worse).

 

[Present Not Past]

OK, prompted by the Sydney Anglican Archbishop's call this week for gays to leave the church -

This is for all the practising Christians out there.

The Bible doesn't actually say a lot about homosexuality - a few mentions in the Old Testament, and some choice words from St Paul in the New.

But, let's assume (not that I'm necessarily saying this is so) that in those few mentions, the Bible is unequivocally against homosexuality.

Now, as we all know, in the Old Testament, there are numerous prohibitions that no practising Christian feels obliged to follow anymore (eating shellfish etc).

Could someone please explain to me, in simple, logical language, why do some Christians insist the Bible is dead against homosexuality, but not these other weird and wonderful prohibitions?

I would like someone to explain what look to me like massive inconsistencies.

What is the official conservative, anti-gay rationale on following some biblical laws, but not others?

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Christians should have no trouble looking that up in their New Testament. It's only one of the two Great Commandments given to them by Jesus.
Guy's it ain't that hard

 

[Frank Bunn]

He's a highly accomplished historian, who has physically visited a lot of the sites he mentions. It would seem you have not previously encountered his work. You have missed something special.

He has taught history over several decades, and by now definitely deserves to be be retired, but he can't help himself, as is evidenced by his contributions on these boards. Everything he writes is original, the result of his own, vast store of knowledge. He is a national treasure. - a Renaissance man - an example of the way people were once taught to revere scholarship.

On certain topics of history such as the foundation of Christianity, Fitzroy FC or the British royal family he's yer man. Outside that, such as science or current social issues, there's no evidence of expertise.