Geelong: why are they just not good enough?

[Bunk Moreland]

There’s always talk of home-ground advantage (KP vs MCG) being “intangible” but I wonder if it’s more simple than that.

I have not researched this at all so happy to be told it’s wrong by people who watch them more than me, but if I think Geelong I think inside clearance beasts like Selwood, Dangerfield etc.

Maybe they just don’t have enough run on the big, wide open ground?

 

[My Tilly]

No, we still had a very good side with a handful of players who were sliding, a handful who were unproven and a good core of champions

No, we still had an all time great side.
Seriously mate, you been living in a cocoon or something?

Why do you think Geelong were still legitimate contenders in the years following 2011?
I can assure you, it was not your lord master Mr. Scott keeping us relevant. It was Johnson, Enright, Bartel, Taylor, Selwood, Kelly, Corey, Chapman, J-Pod and lesser-likes such as Mackie, Stokes, Lonergan ensuring we kept clocking off the wins.

 

[PhatBoy]

No, we still had an all time great side.
Seriously mate, you been living in a cocoon or something?

Why do you think Geelong were still legitimate contenders in the years following 2011?
I can assure you, it was not your lord master Mr. Scott keeping us relevant. It was Johnson, Enright, Bartel, Taylor, Selwood, Kelly, Corey, Chapman, J-Pod and lesser-likes such as Mackie, Stokes, Lonergan ensuring we kept clocking off the wins.

Fine.

Mark down 2010 as another Thompson blunder like 2008 where we should have won in a canter seeing as we had a Team of the Century equivalent apparently.

 

[Vdubs]

He is against anyone decent.

Round 1 next year - where do you play him VD? Ruck or key defence? Your choice.

The beauty is, there IS a choice. As you rightly point out.

Depending on who we play, I generally have preferred Stanley (or Smith) to start as first ruck. But in the event where Stanley is getting done, isn't it great that we can swing Blic into that vital role?!
Next year, I see Stanley and Sav sharing ruck duties, with Jenkins and Hawk KF spots, so maybe Blic can stay in defence, but as he is so adaptable, it's reassuring we have him on our list.

 

[My Tilly]

Fine.

Mark down 2010 as another Thompson blunder like 2008 where we should have won in a canter seeing as we had a Team of the Century equivalent apparently.

In 2010, we made it to another preliminary final and were absolutely dismantled by Collingwood.
This is the same Collingwood who have always troubled us.

2007 - Round 16 = Geelong win by 16 points
2007 - Prelim Final = Geelong win by 5 points
2008 - Round 9 = Collingwood win by 86 points
2009 - Round 3 = Geelong win by 27 points
2009 - Prelim Final = Geelong win by 73 points
2010 - Round 9 = Geelong win by 36 points
2010 - Round 19 = Collingwood win by 22 points
2010 - Prelim Final = Collingwood win by 41 points


As you can see, they are a team who have always matched up on us well. Some lopsided results either way.
Geelong actually kicked a match winning goal against St Kilda in the 2010 Qualifying Final. The goal was called back and St Kilda held on to win




If that goal is allowed (50/50 call), Geelong make another grand final given we would have had a week's rest and that Thompson-led team did not sh*t the bed after bye's like the Scott-led team does.

 

[PhatBoy]

In 2010, we made it to another preliminary final and were absolutely dismantled by Collingwood.
This is the same Collingwood who have always troubled us.

2007 - Round 16 = Geelong win by 16 points
2007 - Prelim Final = Geelong win by 5 points
2008 - Round 9 = Collingwood win by 86 points
2009 - Round 3 = Geelong win by 27 points
2009 - Prelim Final = Geelong win by 73 points
2010 - Round 9 = Geelong win by 36 points
2010 - Round 19 = Collingwood win by 22 points
2010 - Prelim Final = Collingwood win by 41 points


As you can see, they are a team who have always matched up on us well. Some lopsided results either way.
Geelong actually kicked a match winning goal against St Kilda in the 2010 Qualifying Final. The goal was called back and St Kilda held on to win




If that goal is allowed (50/50 call), Geelong make another grand final given we would have had a week's rest and that Thompson-led team did not sh*t the bed after bye's like the Scott-led team does.

No no, we lost a preliminary final with a champion team.

We should have flogged st kilda rather than waiting until the last minute.

Thompson screws up again.

 

[Blues90]

What a utter meltdown

Hes right though nearly every richmomd supporter all of a sudden think they know everything not even Hawthorn supporters were this bad after the three peat

 

[My Tilly]

No no, we lost a preliminary final with a champion team.

We should have flogged st kilda rather than waiting until the last minute.

Thompson screws up again.

You Scott lovers just don't see it do you
It's funny seeing you all start to squirm in your seats. Only took you about 4 years to finally catch on.

Just wait till we drift mid table and into oblivion again for a decade. You, along with the Scotty lovers will be the first to say, 'I told you so'.

 

[PhatBoy]

You Scott lovers just don't see it do you
It's funny seeing you all start to squirm in your seats. Only took you about 4 years to finally catch on.

Just wait till we drift mid table and into oblivion again for a decade. You, along with the Scotty lovers will be the first to say, 'I told you so'.

The funniest part is that anyone who doesn’t actually want to firebomb Chris Scott’s house is immediately termed a Scotty Lover simply because we can accept that there are positives to what he has achieved as well as negatives.

I just wish we’d won those 4 straight flags on a platter that Bomber should have won us.

 

[Partridge]

The beauty is, there IS a choice. As you rightly point out.

Depending on who we play, I generally have preferred Stanley (or Smith) to start as first ruck. But in the event where Stanley is getting done, isn't it great that we can swing Blic into that vital role?!
Next year, I see Stanley and Sav sharing ruck duties, with Jenkins and Hawk KF spots, so maybe Blic can stay in defence, but as he is so adaptable, it's reassuring we have him on our list.

Not quite, I said your choice. I don't think there is a choice at all. Not a sane one anyway.

He's a key defender. That's it. If he's needed to relieve a ruckman for a few minutes here and there (and I do mean only a few minutes), sure. But he's not adaptable. Just because he's put in other positions doesn't mean he can actually play there. He's not good enough as a winger, he's not good enough as a midfielder, he's not good enough as a tagger, and he's not good enough as a ruckman.

To me it isn't great that he can be swung into a vital role; it's normally the canary in the coalmine that we're about to make a massive tactical blunder. As in the Qualifying Final this season.

 

[Partridge]

No no, we lost a preliminary final with a champion team.

We should have flogged st kilda rather than waiting until the last minute.

Thompson screws up again.

Seeing as they beat us both times that year I'm not sure why we should have flogged them.

Our record against the eventual Grand finalists that year (St.Kilda and Collingwood) - 1 win, 4 losses.

It might be possible that in that particular season those sides were just slightly ahead of us.

 

[PhatBoy]

Seeing as they beat us both times that year I'm not sure why we should have flogged them.

Our record against the eventual Grand finalists that year (St.Kilda and Collingwood) - 1 win, 4 losses.

It might be possible that in that particular season those sides were just slightly ahead of us.

My point (initially) exactly.

I was being sarcastic

 

[Danger2Jenkins]

I've never seen a coach who has no chemistry with his players do anywhere near as well as Chris Scott. Dimma was bottom for almost a decade and now his players love him. If Chris Scott was loved by all 22 players we'd probably win 5 premierships

 

[Vdubs]

Not quite, I said your choice. I don't think there is a choice at all. Not a sane one anyway.

He's a key defender. That's it. If he's needed to relieve a ruckman for a few minutes here and there (and I do mean only a few minutes), sure. But he's not adaptable. Just because he's put in other positions doesn't mean he can actually play there. He's not good enough as a winger, he's not good enough as a midfielder, he's not good enough as a tagger, and he's not good enough as a ruckman.

To me it isn't great that he can be swung into a vital role; it's normally the canary in the coalmine that we're about to make a massive tactical blunder. As in the Qualifying Final this season.

So Mr. P What position was he when he won his first B & F? I know you won't rate that achievement, but don't make such emphatic pronouncements when clearly he CAN and did play well elsewhere. I don't care what type of season our other players had that year- Blic was actually good enough to win a B & F and it was NOT in defence.

 

[My Tilly]

I've never seen a coach who has no chemistry with his players do anywhere near as well as Chris Scott. Dimma was bottom for almost a decade and now his players love him. If Chris Scott was loved by all 22 players we'd probably win 5 premierships

Hardwick took charge in 2010.

They have finished 15th, 12th, 12th, 5th, 8th, 5th, 13th, Premiership, 1st, Premiership.

How is that bottom for almost a decade?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Hardwick took charge in 2010.

They have finished 15th, 12th, 12th, 5th, 8th, 5th, 13th, Premiership, 1st, Premiership.

How is that bottom for almost a decade?

And never 9th!

 

[Partridge]

So Mr. P What position was he when he won his first B & F? I know you won't rate that achievement, but don't make such emphatic pronouncements when clearly he CAN and did play well elsewhere. I don't care what type of season our other players had that year- Blic was actually good enough to win a B & F and it was NOT in defence.

If you want to put him on a wing or in midfield that's fine. My preference is for key defence.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Wells deserves as much, if not more criticsm than Scott.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

And never 9th!

First and (probably) only team to lose a 9th placed team in the finals though

 

[Cdog71]

It’s usually the best Defence that wins finals.
Playing Blicavs in the Ruck isn’t close to your best defence.
Against us you had to change personel for

FF
Wing
FB (playing Blicavs on the wing)

On the night, Tiges won those positions.
Your not going to win alot of finals if your forced into that and it doesn’t fall your way.
It was the loss to the Pies that was the one that got away you beat last years premiers at the G and I don’t reckon you wouldve lost to GWS in the wet.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

First and (probably) only team to lose a 9th placed team in the finals though

Just shows we can do things others can't.

 

[queensberryrules]

Chris Scott - Hillary Clinton.
Hardwick - Obama.
Clarko - Roosevelt.


On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[iameviljez]

I have not researched this at all so happy to be told it’s wrong by people who watch them more than me, but if I think Geelong I think inside clearance beasts like Selwood, Dangerfield etc.

Maybe they just don’t have enough run on the big, wide open ground?

There is a little truth to that. We can get outrun at times, and beaten a little on the spread, but it's more so, I think, about having an uneven list thanks to just having so little access to top quality picks and players (bar one very obvious exception) for 12 years. There were only four top-20 picks in the side that lost the Prelim - Henderson, Taylor, Selwood, Dangerfield. All are either over-30, or nearly 30.

It doesn't help that there was one draft in that period which we absolutely nailed - 2009 - but luck was disgusting. That year we got Menzel, Christensen, Duncan and Vardy - but injury absolutely cruelled three of the four. Christensen in particular was going to be superb - showed more than any other Geelong draftee I can remember bar Selwood.

Geelong has a bit of an oddly specific range as to its pulling power for players nominating a trade, because we aren't in the city. That's ok - it's how we got Dangerfield - but it also means that we don't have a realistic chance at Frawley, O'Meara, Lynch, Prestia, Mitchell, Scully, May, Lever etc.

So, we're short on really good players. There's a lot of really ordinary foot soldiers in there - Kolodjashnij, Bews, Henry, Atkins, Parfitt and the like.

Oh, and we have no good ruckman.

 

[beema limapep]

I love the whole 'our future is set' buy in from Geelong fans.

No top 10 picks and a few from 14 onwards to late 30s over 2 years.

Then factor in this is the club who previously selected....Fogarty, Clark, Constable, Parfitt, Cockatoo within this pick range, most of the above being their first selections.

Then factor in its essentially the same recruitment team in 2019.

Meanwhile Ablett Sekwood Hawkins Dangerfield Taylor as well as a few 29 year olds on the way out

Future is set alright!

 

[iameviljez]

I love the whole 'our future is set' buy in from Geelong fans.

What? I think you're strawmanning a bit there.

We know we're in a deep hole as soon as Dangerwood and Hawkins get called into the office with Father Time. It won't be a Brisbane-style fall thanks to our ability to make purses from sow's ears, but it won't be great, either.