No Oppo Supporters 2019 Trade and FA period - Incoming Targets news discussion - read the rules in OP

[flinchfree]

If it’s true that we made a play for 1 or the draft & missed, I’d suggest that this seasons trade period a bit of a disaster.

.................

Making a play for 1 or 2 & not getting it done after missing Cogs is almost shameful. It would have cost a bomb no doubt but there was a real opportunity to change the list significantly this off season & secure some long term success.

...................... that the cliff will come very quickly for this playing group.

If the other mob would only take our 4 best players, was it still a disaster to say no? That's a weird call PhatHQ without knowing what we tried.


If you lose 3-4 of your best players and a couple high draft picks, how are you set for long term success by bringing in ONE draft pick - regardless how good the player?


Tom Mitchell 26
Jarman Impey 24
James Worpell 20
James Sicily 24
Mitchell Lewis 21
Jon Patton 26
Jaeger Omeara 25
Connor Nash 21
Blake Hardwick 22
Chad Wingard 26
Tim Obrien 25
Changkuoth Jiath 20
Jack Scrimshaw 21
Jackson Ross 20
Ollie Hanrahan 21


Not exactly falling off a cliff in a year or so I wouldn't think...??????
Reckon that's 15 I'd be confident we'll be building our next contender around, and there's some older cream that could still make a tasty contribution...

Those are all players I reckon can WIN their position in an AFL battle.
Pretty exciting in my eyes.
Hard to understand how others don't think so.

 

[sven_inc]

If it’s true that we made a play for 1 or the draft & missed, I’d suggest that this seasons trade period a bit of a disaster.

Cogs was the all in play from the outside looking in. The carpet was pulled from under Clarko here.

Making a play for 1 or 2 & not getting it done after missing Cogs is almost shameful. It would have cost a bomb no doubt but there was a real opportunity to change the list significantly this off season & secure some long term success.

I’ll be happy to see a reasonable season & get back to making finals off the back of the next gen but feel that we have missed a serious opportunity to move forward with the list & expect that if the players that didn’t show up this season go on to have another year the same that the cliff will come very quickly for this playing group.

This may sound strange but I think our plans were ultimately scuppered by the AFL both times.

By all reports we had Cogs in the bag until he became a Gillionaire. Also, I think as soon as GCS were given pick 2 it made the package of Rowell and Anderson a once in a lifetime play for them. If they were denied pick 2, GCS may have been more open to trading away pick 1 for the right price.

As it turned out you could argue the 19th team in the afl (the AFL) made things almost impossible for us.

 

[KermitJagger]

If it’s true that we made a play for 1 or the draft & missed, I’d suggest that this seasons trade period a bit of a disaster.

Cogs was the all in play from the outside looking in. The carpet was pulled from under Clarko here.

Making a play for 1 or 2 & not getting it done after missing Cogs is almost shameful. It would have cost a bomb no doubt but there was a real opportunity to change the list significantly this off season & secure some long term success.

I’ll be happy to see a reasonable season & get back to making finals off the back of the next gen but feel that we have missed a serious opportunity to move forward with the list & expect that if the players that didn’t show up this season go on to have another year the same that the cliff will come very quickly for this playing group.

A disaster? * me dead mate.

I'm sure we asked the question of pick 1 or 2 just to be sure, but so did a hell of a lot of other teams. Christ, Collingwood came a bees dick within offering up Treloar for it.

It's like me asking Scarlett Johansson if she wants to spend the night. It's worth a shot, almost definitely won't happen, but I'm not gonna sit back and have a sook like it was ever a chance.

If pick 1s were all that was required to turn a list around, Carlton would be a lot closer since they've had 1/3rd of the last 15.

 

[Flamin Joe]

Yeah what a disaster we didn't force a senior player to the Gold Coast.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

A disaster? fu** me dead mate.

I'm sure we asked the question of pick 1 or 2 just to be sure, but so did a hell of a lot of other teams. Christ, Collingwood came a bees dick within offering up Treloar for it.

It's like me asking Scarlett Johansson if she wants to spend the night. It's worth a shot, almost definitely won't happen, but I'm not gonna sit back and have a sook like it was ever a chance.

If pick 1s were all that was required to turn a list around, Carlton would be a lot closer since they've had 1/3rd of the last 15.

Don't think he put that post up for likes, backlash like this on here doesn't encourage different thinkers.

All form a neat line and follow the ra ra brotherhood eh.

 

[KermitJagger]

Don't think he put that post up for likes, backlash like this on here doesn't encourage different thinkers.

All form a neat line and follow the ra ra brotherhood eh.

I love different thinkers, I love freedom of thought and speech. That said, if you're going to bleat unsubstantiated tripe you have the right to be ridiculed.

"Trade period is a disaster"
Two best 22 talents traded in for a downgrade on a future 2nd whilst maintaining our ability to select what will be in essence 2 first round picks, 11 and Maginness if a bid comes late. Odd type of disaster, but okay.

"Making a private inquiry for pick 1 or 2 was shameful after missing Coniglio"
How is that shameful? The amount of discussions that clubs have for any given player or pick are endless over trade period. The fact that it wasn't even reported on indicates to me that it wasn't a serious chase. We didn't publicly chase it and miss out at the death like Carlton or Sydney. Talk about dramatic.

"The cliff will come very quickly for this playing group"
Like a poster above said, we don't know what it would have taken to get earlier picks across. It could have been Gunston, Breust and Smith for 1 or 2 for all we know. There's no way you'd do that, regardless of how good those kids would be. We would have brought a lot of players across promising them success in the near future; if we start a fire sale of senior players, how does that look to Titch, Wingard, Jaeger and those guys? We'd be compromising an entire age demographic on our list. We'd be willingly throwing ourselves off a cliff in that case, which would be beyond stupid considering the effort we just went through to avoid a cliff.

I know I'm a broken record with this s**t, but it's so tiring to see this incessant, unbridled pessimism in the guise of realism on this board.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Yeah what a disaster we didn't force a senior player to the Gold Coast.

What can't be judged are deals that weren't made, we can't judge the terms of the deals or the subsequent lift or drop off of results in terms of win loss and so forth, you like myself and everyone on here can only guess.
But if you think that the trading that had been done for what has amounted to a 3x ACL player and with the greatest of respect a ball butcher, yeah the top four are crapping themselves.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

I love different thinkers, I love freedom of thought and speech. That said, if you're going to bleat unsubstantiated tripe you have the right to be ridiculed.

"Trade period is a disaster"
Two best 22 talents traded in for a downgrade on a future 2nd whilst maintaining our ability to select what will be in essence 2 first round picks, 11 and Maginness if a bid comes late. Odd type of disaster, but okay.

"Making a private inquiry for pick 1 or 2 was shameful after missing Coniglio"
How is that shameful? The amount of discussions that clubs have for any given player or pick are endless over trade period. The fact that it wasn't even reported on indicates to me that it wasn't a serious chase. We didn't publicly chase it and miss out at the death like Carlton or Sydney. Talk about dramatic.

"The cliff will come very quickly for this playing group"
Like a poster above said, we don't know what it would have taken to get earlier picks across. It could have been Gunston, Breust and Smith for 1 or 2 for all we know. There's no way you'd do that, regardless of how good those kids would be. We would have brought a lot of players across promising them success in the near future; if we start a fire sale of senior players, how does that look to Titch, Wingard, Jaeger and those guys? We'd be compromising an entire age demographic on our list. We'd be willingly throwing ourselves off a cliff in that case, which would be beyond stupid considering the effort we just went through to avoid a cliff.

I know I'm a broken record with this s**t, but it's so tiring to see this incessant, unbridled pessimism in the guise of realism on this board.

Too much hair splitting with regard to terminology, better to read the intent.
Personally thought on face value we were okay with the pure out come of the trade period with regard to picks and draft position, just think in the big scheme it doesn't build to challenging anytime soon.

 

[KermitJagger]

Too much hair splitting with regard to terminology, better to read the intent.
Personally thought on face value we were okay with the pure out come of the trade period with regard to picks and draft position, just think in the big scheme it doesn't build to challenging anytime soon.

So it's too much for me to expect detail, and I should just judge all posts on the intent? Either way the intent was crap. Sell everything to take a punt on the draft despite a clear philosophy from the club that the draft is highly overrated.

That doesn't guarantee future success in any way at all, and definitely doesn't help Clarko or the club who have both publicly stated their intention to see success in the short term.

 

[The Chad and I]

If it’s true that we made a play for 1 or the draft & missed, I’d suggest that this seasons trade period a bit of a disaster.

fyi...

disaster

• n. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe.
• n. A grave misfortune.

 

[TazHawk15]

This ******* thread will not die.

Die you bastard Die.

 

[Furn2]

The cliff is a myth, older lists have outperformed younger lists on average in all of following 3-7 years since 2007.

 

[threesixpio]

We don’t have Freedom of Speech in Australia actually (side comment) - so stop all pretending it’s “a thing” here. It actually isn’t

Anyway, is Finn the type to get a go in his first year some time? Seems like a big bloke already

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I love different thinkers, I love freedom of thought and speech. That said, if you're going to bleat unsubstantiated tripe you have the right to be ridiculed.

"Trade period is a disaster"
Two best 22 talents traded in for a downgrade on a future 2nd whilst maintaining our ability to select what will be in essence 2 first round picks, 11 and Maginness if a bid comes late. Odd type of disaster, but okay.

"Making a private inquiry for pick 1 or 2 was shameful after missing Coniglio"
How is that shameful? The amount of discussions that clubs have for any given player or pick are endless over trade period. The fact that it wasn't even reported on indicates to me that it wasn't a serious chase. We didn't publicly chase it and miss out at the death like Carlton or Sydney. Talk about dramatic.

"The cliff will come very quickly for this playing group"
Like a poster above said, we don't know what it would have taken to get earlier picks across. It could have been Gunston, Breust and Smith for 1 or 2 for all we know. There's no way you'd do that, regardless of how good those kids would be. We would have brought a lot of players across promising them success in the near future; if we start a fire sale of senior players, how does that look to Titch, Wingard, Jaeger and those guys? We'd be compromising an entire age demographic on our list. We'd be willingly throwing ourselves off a cliff in that case, which would be beyond stupid considering the effort we just went through to avoid a cliff.

I know I'm a broken record with this s**t, but it's so tiring to see this incessant, unbridled pessimism in the guise of realism on this board.

This goes both ways.

Posting through incessant, unbridled rose-tinted glasses in the guise of realism is also very tiring to read. I'm not saying this is you specifically, I'm just saying this in general.

People just take it for granted that things are going to work out for us, but in reality things aren't just going to turn out great, 'because we're Hawthorn.' The fact is we've missed out on finals twice and had two straight-sets exits in the last four years. We are no longer the best run club and have been replaced firmly by Richmond. They have a better and more effective game plan and are clearly the best coached side, until proven otherwise.

We have a lot of issues to address both in terms of coaching, game-plan and player development if we are going to get back to being a contending team. That's not being pessimistic, that's just a fact.

I agree with the rest of what you've said there though.

 

[Milkshaker]

This may sound strange but I think our plans were ultimately scuppered by the AFL both times.

By all reports we had Cogs in the bag until he became a Gillionaire. Also, I think as soon as GCS were given pick 2 it made the package of Rowell and Anderson a once in a lifetime play for them. If they were denied pick 2, GCS may have been more open to trading away pick 1 for the right price.

As it turned out you could argue the 19th team in the afl (the AFL) made things almost impossible for us.

I posted earlier it was a waste of time even trying it. Absolutely the AFL has said you are taking the best two kids this years. Otherwise why even bother granting the priority pick? It really is a shite time for opposing clubs to be operating in. A bit hard to sell hope to members when the AFL are pushing the franchises barrows.

Richmond are laughing. They grab Lynch and a potential rival is scuppered in getting Coniglio. Now they don't have to worry about the two best players in the draft finding their way to a competitor either, thanks to the AFL. If it was not for our recent success and the Clarko factor you would just about give up until some form of status quo returned.

IMO Clarko would be ruling the comp if not for the GWS and GCS.

 

[KermitJagger]

This goes both ways.

Posting through incessant, unbridled rose-tinted glasses in the guise of realism is also very tiring to read. I'm not saying this is you specifically, I'm just saying this in general.

People just take it for granted that things are going to work out for us, but in reality things aren't just going to turn out great, 'because we're Hawthorn.' The fact is we've missed out on finals twice and had two straight-sets exits in the last four years. We are no longer the best run club and have been replaced firmly by Richmond. They have a better and more effective game plan and are clearly the best coached side, until proven otherwise.

We have a lot of issues to address both in terms of coaching, game-plan and player development if we are going to get back to being a contending team. That's not being pessimistic, that's just a fact.

I agree with the rest of what you've said there though.

I agree that there's a flip side to everything, and I find it cringeworthy when posters insist that our players are obviously so much better than other players.

I'm not at all saying that things will be fine because we're Hawthorn and I don't disagree we have areas we need to address, but the nature of being a professional sports team is that you'll always have areas you need to address, but you do need to put it into context as to where we've come from.

When you consider just how we've transitioned from the end of 2016; we've managed to move out a handful of future Hall of Famers, and not only avoid plummeting but also managing a top 4 finish.

To be as pessimistic about our prospects as some on this board are, you literally have to ignore everything but the bad stuff. You have to think "we finished 9th" but not acknowledge that we strung a second half of the season together where we beat 3 of the preliminary finalists, 2 of them comfortably. You have to think "Well we missed out on Lynch and Coniglio" whilst simultaneously ignoring that we have brought in Tom Scully, Jon Patton, Sam Frost and Jack Scrimshaw for what were nothing but a couple of late pick swaps. You need to read articles about our lack of quality youth while ignoring the fact that we've had more Rising Star nominations than the following clubs since 2016; Bombers, Dogs, Cats, Dockers, Eagles, Roos, Saints, Demons, Giants, Magpies, Suns and Crows.

We've essentially managed the exact same trade period as the Bulldogs (best 22 key position players at either end), but apparently they did wonderfully and ours is nothing short of a disaster?

It's painful, and for the most part the doom and gloom posts are just lazy and lack any form of critical thought. If they had any insight to consider, I'd consider them.

 

[kirbatron]

This goes both ways.

Posting through incessant, unbridled rose-tinted glasses in the guise of realism is also very tiring to read. I'm not saying this is you specifically, I'm just saying this in general.

People just take it for granted that things are going to work out for us, but in reality things aren't just going to turn out great, 'because we're Hawthorn.' The fact is we've missed out on finals twice and had two straight-sets exits in the last four years. We are no longer the best run club and have been replaced firmly by Richmond. They have a better and more effective game plan and are clearly the best coached side, until proven otherwise.

We have a lot of issues to address both in terms of coaching, game-plan and player development if we are going to get back to being a contending team. That's not being pessimistic, that's just a fact.

I agree with the rest of what you've said there though.

Criticism is fine when done constructively... but we still need some buoyancy. I read the other day that Scully had just a good year as Shiel - I just ignore stuff like this.

At some point you have to sit back, relax a bit & know that the club is & will be doing everything in its power to get back to the top. We are a victim of our own success in a way because our standards are so ******* high.

Ps - I like your posting.

 

[eldorado]

If it’s true that we made a play for 1 or the draft & missed, I’d suggest that this seasons trade period a bit of a disaster.


Making a play for 1 or 2 & not getting it done after missing Cogs is almost shameful. It would have cost a bomb no doubt but there was a real opportunity to change the list significantly this off season & secure some long term success.

Shameful?????

What horseshit.

The aim of the game, as you say, is to improve the list, not just to make big trades that cost a bomb to keep the mug punters in the bleechers happy.

I see your post was liked by the usual "I tell it like it is" misery merchants, who won't be happy until the rest of us all realise as they that everything is ****ed, the Hawks are ****ed, we have no hope, blah, blah, ******* blah.

We improved out list, kept good picks, will pick up at least 2 highly credentialed youngsters in the draft. Most impartial observers ranked our trade period highly. But not some here. It was almost 'shameful" FFS

 

[4THAWN]

I don't get what some supporters expect after 4 flags in 8 years. The club NEEDs a period of time to reset, it's just not possible for the club to constantly be on the up and contending. I don't think this period of time needs to be viewed negatively either, when you factor in that it's coming off the back of the most successful period in the AFL era.

We're doing just fine with the cards we've been dealt.

People go on about how Richmond are the best, we'll if they're so good then lets see where they are in 2025. Without dusty, grimes, vlaustin, reiwoldt, houli lets see if they can defy gravity. My bets are they won't, because you cannot stay up forever.

 

[eldorado]

Don't think he put that post up for likes, backlash like this on here doesn't encourage different thinkers.

All form a neat line and follow the ra ra brotherhood eh.

Don't sook it up about mythical 'brotherhoods' conspiring against you when people think your opinions are s**t.

You post it, people respond.

Victim s**t about 'brotherhoods' shows weak mindedness.

If you get wound up when the majority disagree, question yourself, not them

 

[Sixpence]

This goes both ways.

Posting through incessant, unbridled rose-tinted glasses in the guise of realism is also very tiring to read. I'm not saying this is you specifically, I'm just saying this in general.

What kind of sadist prick gets offended by optimism!?

Constant negativity rubs people the wrong way, it's human nature. This is why people are having a crack at HR, not just because he made the odd critical comment, it was constant. And you're coming out trying to argue that constant positivity is just as bad? That's like hating someone because they're always happy.

 

[Milkshaker]

Don't sook it up about mythical 'brotherhoods' conspiring against you when people think your opinions are s**t.

You post it, people respond.

Victim s**t about 'brotherhoods' shows weak mindedness.

If you get wound up when the majority disagree, question yourself, not them

Yeah the majority is always right. Scary way of thinking this.

 

[eldorado]

Yeah the majority is always right. Scary way of thinking this.

This response bears absolutely no relevance to what I said. Perhaps you just read what you fondly imagined I said?

In plainer English, my point is that there is no 'brotherhood' stifling individuality here. just people expressing their opinion to others opinions...

 

[MrPremiership]

This thread

 

[Dr.J]

Can somebody call me once we start pre season training.

We did the debate about free speech this time last year