Why hasnt there been more pressure on st kilda over the years?

[master bate]

When 2024, 2028 ?

The good key forwards rarely take as long as the common belief. If he's as talented as they think he'll have at least a few decent games next year as his brother did this year, probably break even for a key forward with 30 goals or so in 2021 and be ready to go in 2022. That's why Ryder is there so they can play 2 rucks who are both handy enough up forward as cover for the next year or so.

 

[Kwality]

The good key forwards rarely take as long as the common belief. If he's as talented as they think he'll have at least a few decent games next year as his brother did this year, probably break even for a key forward with 30 goals or so in 2021 and be ready to go in 2022. That's why Ryder is there so they can play 2 rucks who are both handy enough up forward as cover for the next year or so.

Rarely you say, whats acceptable from a key forward that ranks them as good.
Examples:

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/

Jack_Darling.html

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/T/

Tom_Hawkins1.html

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/

Jack_Riewoldt.html

I've set the bar fairly high, happy for you to reject my examples.

 

[Pykie]

Am I missing something?

15.7M vs 12.4M = 3.3M more in "handouts"

Leave out the grey bar amount, unless you want to punish Richmond for actually receiving prize moeny or more merchandise sales...

The grey bar isn’t just those things.

It’s $$$ from stadium deals, travel subsidies, AFL commercial partner distributions, NGA and Academy funding and AFLW funding.

Unless you think GWS has the highest prize money and merchandise sales in the league....

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Ah yes, internet forums, distillation of all human wisdom.

You just want to kill off Vic clubs because you have a giant chip on your shoulder about being West Australian.

I always envision him as a Sharks fan who lorded it over his mates and now supports a franchise state team like everyone else. No longer a special snowflake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[t_94]

If you're not financially viable, you should be wound up.

Sure the Crows are currently a basket case culturally, the football department is probably the worst in the league and Adelaide isn't the greatest place to live as a young man on a high income; but it's still a massive club that's consistently competitive.

Case in point, our last two years have been totally disastrous by Crows standards. Complete and total train wreck with the Coach, Captain, Senior Assistant and Head of Football all removed from their post. Years like that are unacceptable for relevant clubs. Yet even in the very, very worst of times for the Crows, they still finished above the Saints. And the noise about the Crows, their performance, the camp, Burton etc has been staggering. Near silence about the Saints (and I live in Melbourne).

For the Saints, pathetic under performing years are run of the mill and readily accepted by the club, media and supporters. Nobody cares. Not relevant. FFS you even kept a dead-man-walking as coach 12 months after you decided to sack him because you are too poor to pay him out.

Saints are a club with character, not a concept i'd expect a franchise supporter like yourself to comprehend.

 

[Harvey to Hayes]

Nothing post here.

You’ve been re-calibrating your list since 2011, taking a reasonably tempered approach which has so far yielded no finals, and a half-baked list with close to zero stars, and no future guns apart from Clark and King, who hasnt played a game.

By contrast we’ve been reconstructing our list since 2015, and are trending upwards having won more games than St Kilda in the back half of the season, including beating a Ratten-coached St Kilda team.

You’re also now paying a guy who managed 4 Brownlow votes over an entire season 900k per year, and paying another player 800k pa for 5 games a season.

Thanks for Newnsey though.

It must be nice celebrating the fact that you won a couple of games at the end of last season, I guess after decades of medicority you gotta hang your hat on something... Love that you're criticising our trade period when SOS made a meal of all your targets and you ended up with a net haul of one 45-year-old forward pocket you'd already ditched in his prime and one hack ruckman no-one's ever heard of, should make a massive difference next year as you strive for a mid-table finish, have fun...

 

[SMSBF]

Basically won back to back flags.
Gave the Afl Rewioldt Hayes Dal Fisher Gehrig
went 19-0
played in 5 prelims 2004-2010

There are WORSE teams.

The GWS and GCS builds happened as we did. And they got the cake.

Also with no facilities to make finals is better than richmond winning a flag.

Saints have the best jumper.

Afl wouldnt dare touch us. We are bayside money. $$$

We are coming now dont worry.
Finally decent admin.

Watch out in 2020. Top 4 chance .

 

[Damon_3388]

Sporadic finals appearances, few wins, a small supporter base, average attendance, and a region that has produced very few decent footballers.

What do they have on league officials that allows them to hide in the shadows when merger/relocation talks start? Being a foundation club should mean little, particularly when Fitzroy were taken over

I've wondered this for a while.

Tradition? Didn't do much for Fitzroy or South Melbourne I suppose.

Some sort of thematic symmetry with the Demons? Doubt it.

I'm tipping blackmail.

Clubs don't fold, relocate, or merge because of on-field results. It's primarily financial. Yes, the finances can eventually dwindle due to poor on-field results, but simply losing games has never been a reason for folding, merging, or relocating, in any professional sport.

Also, aside from their early '80s "cents in the dollar" debt bail-out, the Saints have usually been pretty MOR in financial terms AFAIK, certainly not "in the gun" battlers off-field like Fitzroy.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Sporadic finals appearances, few wins, a small supporter base, average attendance, and a region that has produced very few decent footballers.

What do they have on league officials that allows them to hide in the shadows when merger/relocation talks start? Being a foundation club should mean little, particularly when Fitzroy were taken over

It’s funny hawks fans starting to get salty realising there getting kicked out of Tassie in 12 months time no more cash cow to milk back to loosing money in Melbourne you guys were as broke as any club Pryor to playing in tas short memory that’s all I’ve got to say

 

[Tasmanian saint]

When 2024, 2028 ?

If you can’t admit max kings got serious talent there’s something wrong look how good Ben king is looking max was rated a lot higher end talent then Ben that’s saying something!

 

[master bate]

Rarely you say, whats acceptable from a key forward that ranks them as good.
Examples:

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/

Jack_Darling.html

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/T/

Tom_Hawkins1.html

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/

Jack_Riewoldt.html

I've set the bar fairly high, happy for you to reject my examples.

I'd say 30 goals these days is holding your own. You can win a lot of games with a 30 goal 2nd string key forward with Membrey taking the load off with 40+.

Years to kick 30 goals:
Darling - year 2.
Hipwood - year 2
Hogan - year 2a (no games in year 1).
Riewoldt - year 3
T Lynch - year 4
Curnow - year 3
Kennedy - year 4
Hawkins - year 3
Daniher - year 3

Interesting the guys closer to 200cm took about a year longer but barring further injury my guess would be 30+ goals in 2021 for Max King, and by that stage the Saints will have a pretty well rounded list. Short on a bit of quality but they'll go in to every game knowing they've got players who can match up. That's half the battle these days. If you've got 22 guys who can do the job then you're in with a good chance.

As for when King will become a fully formed star? That will take longer. But if he's getting to these levels then he's probably performing well along the way.

Years to kick 50 goals:
Darling - year 2
Daniher - year 5
Hawkins - year 6
Kennedy - year 6
Lynch - year 6
Riewoldt - year 4

 

[Kappa]

I don't think a lot of supporters - particularly of big clubs - understand just what the smaller clubs have to deal with.

The Saints couldn't get a deal done at Linton St, so rolled the dice on Seaford. A disaster of a move, the place had nothing going for it. It wasn't big enough or good enough to justify the move. The Saints then had to dig the hole much deeper to get back to Moorabbin.

Meanwhile Eddie at Pieland can just kick out decades of history at Olympic Park and take over the place with a stack of Government funding.

Carlton and Collingwood get AFLW teams at the start of the comp despite little involvement or interest in women's footy, the Saints have to wait until 2020.

They have to compete desperately for major sponsors etc etc.

They couldn't afford to sack a coach and so had to keep Richo for most of the season until justifying the pay out.

It's not an excuse for being repeatedly bad, at some stage you have to bounce up the ladder and compete but the list of premiership winners continues to be the wealthier clubs and that's not a fluke.

Didn't the Bulldogs just win a premiership? And saints could of easily won one within the last decade, so that call is just a bullshit excuse.

 

[WilloTree]

yeah/nah

From the first XVIII we lost Bruce and added Hill, Jones & Howard
From 19-25 we lost Acres and Newnes and added Ryder and Butler

Not sure why you're running down your own players. Acres and Newnes played 19 and 20 games respectively last year - clearly best 22. Steven is a 4 time B&F and Bruce was your No2 goal-kicker this year. The fact Saints let go 4 clear best 22 and still ended up practically sitting out of 2 drafts isn't great list management.

 

[BrutThough]

Not sure why you're running down your own players. Acres and Newnes played 19 and 20 games respectively last year - clearly best 22. Steven is a 4 time B&F and Bruce was your No2 goal-kicker this year. The fact Saints let go 4 clear best 22 and still ended up practically sitting out of 2 drafts isn't great list management.

Newnes was best 22 but with Hill and Jones both coming in, he would have moved down the pecking order for his best position of the wing. Acres would not have been best 22 if our injury list wasn't ridiculously long, and also far down the pecking order for time on the wing. Neither would be considered clear best 22 next season with the additions to our list and both would be seen as back ups in their preferred position.

Bruce will be a loss next season and we would have preferred to keep him but the club has prioritised King over Bruce, and it was best for Josh's future to take the Dogs offer. Hopefully King lives up to the hype surrounding him.

And right now, we dont have any good picks in this years draft but we still have next years first rounder and next years trade period to improve our draft hand if we want to. A bit premature to say we have sat out of two drafts when there is plenty of time to change that.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Afl wouldnt dare touch us. We are bayside money

Did you literally skip over the post in this thread showing just how much money the saints get given? Saints are not any form of money.

Basically won back to back flags

Lol what?

Also with no facilities to make finals is better than richmond winning a flag.

This answers the op's question. Saints fans are actually happy with never winning. Any form of success seems to keep them going another 10 seasons.

went 19-0
played in 5 prelims 2004-2010

As I said, kept them going throughout the 20teens.

Presshre comes from the media. The media feeds off clickbait. There's no unrest amongst saints fans. Seems they're just happy existing.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Basically won back to back flags.
Gave the Afl Rewioldt Hayes Dal Fisher Gehrig
went 19-0
played in 5 prelims 2004-2010

There are WORSE teams.

The GWS and GCS builds happened as we did. And they got the cake.

Also with no facilities to make finals is better than richmond winning a flag.

Saints have the best jumper.

Afl wouldnt dare touch us. We are bayside money. $$$

We are coming now dont worry.
Finally decent admin.

Watch out in 2020. Top 4 chance .

lol how delusional

 

[master bate]

Didn't the Bulldogs just win a premiership? And saints could of easily won one within the last decade, so that call is just a bullshit excuse.

Wow some really strong logic there. The poorer teams should probably just win the flag every year because the Dogs did it once.

Wins ladder the last 10 years: Geel, Haw, Syd, Coll, WCE, Rich, Adel, Freo, North, Dogs, Port, Ess, GWS, SK, Car, Melb, BL, GC.

Yes Geel and Hawthorn building super teams have elevated them as has Sydney being so well run and using their geographical advantage. But by in large it's the rich teams at the top and poor teams at the bottom.

WCE have a clear gap on Freo. Adelaide a clear gap on Port. Essendon are down but clearly handicapped themselves with the asada stuff, as did Carlton but so much of Carlton's issues were caused by poor management way back in the early 2000's. They've paid for those mistakes for 20 years because they were broke and stupid and acting like a struggling poor club. They didn't have a well resourced footy department from 2005-2010 when football had an arms race of spending on coaches and recruiting and then they haven't been able to attract players because they've been bad.

The Bulldogs built their flag on a few factors:
1. Hired a very good coach to give them a tactical advantage - a smart move but not available to every club all the time. You can't sack a coach each year hoping to hire a messiah, that will never work.

2. Nailed some high draft picks when they had them post the GWS/GC expansion era where top clubs hadn't had high picks for a long time. The Dogs snuck in got Bont, Stringer, Libba (FS), Macrae and traded for Tom Boyd. They all peaked at exactly the right time.

3. Bought back the Footscray factor. With VFL games at Whitten Oval under the Footscray name they really traded on their brand and heritage and rode that wave to build a strong culture.

2 of those 3 things are making smart football decisions that every club has access too but it's not easy and requires a lot of good fortune, it's certainly easier for the clubs who can attract good players in trade week rather than paying overs or picking up the scraps and clubs with vast networks of staff, volunteers, business connections etc. The 3rd thing required the Dogs to get their own VFL side which Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn (Via a complete Box Hill takeover) had all had for years. The Saints have yet to have that. Instead they've just got back to Moorabbin and have been dealing with Sandringham for years. here's a bunch of little things that add up when you don't have the same resources and they matter.

 

[SMSBF]

lol how delusional

Tigers? ha laughing stock for 35 years.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Tigers? ha laughing stock for 35 years.

And St Kilda have been a laughing stock their entire history

 

[Kwality]

The grey bar isn’t just those things.

It’s $$$ from stadium deals, travel subsidies, AFL commercial partner distributions, NGA and Academy funding and AFLW funding.

Unless you think GWS has the highest prize money and merchandise sales in the league....

Travel subsidies in a national comp is a handout ...

Stadium deals negotiated by the AFL arent as sharp as stadium deals negotiated by clubs, fancy that !!

 

[Gavin Excell]

It's an interesting study in culture

 

[Falchoon]

Not sure why you're running down your own players. Acres and Newnes played 19 and 20 games respectively last year - clearly best 22. Steven is a 4 time B&F and Bruce was your No2 goal-kicker this year. The fact Saints let go 4 clear best 22 and still ended up practically sitting out of 2 drafts isn't great list management.

I'm not running anyone down, I had them in the 19-25 bracket. Players 19-25 will more than likely play 18+ games with a normal run of injuries.

Newnes & Dunstan are 2 players in my opinion who need to be phased out, Acres I like but still more on potential than output, he's not averaging 72% game time because he's choice no.1 in any position, but he provides a point of difference size wise.

FWIW, my depth chart is as follows, I'd have Acres and Newnes alongside Dunstan & Sinclair.

I personally prefer Gresham forward, if a midfielder goes down he slides into the midfield rotation with one of the forward depth taking his flank.

 

[Plugger35]

The Bulldogs built their flag on a few factors:
1. Hired a very good coach to give them a tactical advantage - a smart move but not available to every club all the time. You can't sack a coach each year hoping to hire a messiah, that will never work.

2. Nailed some high draft picks when they had them post the GWS/GC expansion era where top clubs hadn't had high picks for a long time. The Dogs snuck in got Bont, Stringer, Libba (FS), Macrae and traded for Tom Boyd. They all peaked at exactly the right time.

3. Bought back the Footscray factor. With VFL games at Whitten Oval under the Footscray name they really traded on their brand and heritage and rode that wave to build a strong culture.

You forgot the most important factor, the armchair ride they got from the umpires that year.

Western Bulldogs have most favourable free-kick differential in AFL

The Western Bulldogs have finished their triumphant AFL premiership season with the most favourable free-kick differential of any team in the competition.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Basically won back to back flags.

No you didn't. You lost two grand finals in a row.

And a finally decent admin doesn't change the fact you don't have the list to make top-4.

 

[emuboy]

I often wonder why St. Kilda didn't do better after their move to Moorabbin and the introduction of country zoning in the mid 1960s. Sure, the Saints were in the 1965 grand final and won it in 1966, but the nucleus of this side was formed before these changes. Moorabbin and the surrounding suburbs were big growth areas and the Saints country zone was Ballarat, one of Victoria's biggest regional cities. Yet after being reasonably competitive in the late 60s and early 70s, the Saints slipped down the ladder in the mid 1970s and were easybeats until the end of the 1980s, with country zoning now abolished and the Moorabbin move long past.