List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Shadow89]

to get you have to give

nothing is for free and no reason for Geelong to feel a sense of entitlement

Tom Lynch.

 

[Determinant]

Once again it's time for a new thread as we start to heat up towards the draft.
Might be a very quick draft for us

 

[Andre the Giant]

In all my years I’ve never seen a better junior kick than this. If we have the early pick before the bid on Green just take him - Hayden Young. He is going to be a superstar.

 

[Determinant]

In all my years I’ve never seen a better junior kick than this. If we have the early pick before the bid on Green just take him - Hayden Young. He is going to be a superstar.

Courtesy of Draft Central:
DRAFT ANALYSIS: “Arguably the best kick in this year’s draft pool, Young is a damaging half-back with great intercept marking and scope to move into the midfield.”
TOUTED for his game-breaking kicking ability and impressive athletic base, Hayden Young is one of the leading prospects to be taken after the seemingly inevitable top two selections. A mainstay in Dandenong Stingrays’ premiership-winning back six last year, much of the promise surrounding Young came from a potential move into the midfield, but that remains an area of hope after he continued his form largely across half-back once again. His athletic traits were again shown off at the National Combine, topping the agility test with a time of 7.940 seconds as the only player to crack under eight seconds to go with his solid speed and endurance scores. Young averaged an impressive 22.3 disposals (15 kicks) in the NAB League this year and 22 (16 kicks) in the National Championships to highlight his consistency, transitioning from his usual half-back role to be tried in the midfield and on a wing late in the Stingrays’ campaign. A modern defender, Young would provide great value late in the top 10, but will unlikely last past pick five given the prolific level of his skills.

Unfortunately though regardless of where Green is bid on I don't see Young lasting to 6.
Current power ranking concensus is;
Matt Rowell
Noah Anderson
Tom Green
Hayden Young
Caleb Serong
Lachie Ash
That's supposedly abillity rank not needs based.

I'd be happy with any of them though I think Serong meets our needs least whilst Young and Ash appear to do so the best

 

[Andre the Giant]

Courtesy of Draft Central:
DRAFT ANALYSIS: “Arguably the best kick in this year’s draft pool, Young is a damaging half-back with great intercept marking and scope to move into the midfield.”
TOUTED for his game-breaking kicking ability and impressive athletic base, Hayden Young is one of the leading prospects to be taken after the seemingly inevitable top two selections. A mainstay in Dandenong Stingrays’ premiership-winning back six last year, much of the promise surrounding Young came from a potential move into the midfield, but that remains an area of hope after he continued his form largely across half-back once again. His athletic traits were again shown off at the National Combine, topping the agility test with a time of 7.940 seconds as the only player to crack under eight seconds to go with his solid speed and endurance scores. Young averaged an impressive 22.3 disposals (15 kicks) in the NAB League this year and 22 (16 kicks) in the National Championships to highlight his consistency, transitioning from his usual half-back role to be tried in the midfield and on a wing late in the Stingrays’ campaign. A modern defender, Young would provide great value late in the top 10, but will unlikely last past pick five given the prolific level of his skills.

Unfortunately though regardless of where Green is bid on I don't see Young lasting to 6.
Current power ranking concensus is;
Matt Rowell
Noah Anderson
Tom Green
Hayden Young
Caleb Serong
Lachie Ash
That's supposedly abillity rank not needs based.

I'd be happy with any of them though I think Serong meets our needs least whilst Young and Ash appear to do so the bext

Yes it’s only if we get the trade up which I still believe we will achieve. He’s a bit special this kid.

 

[PMBangers]

Assuming Green doesn't get bid on before 6 and Rowell + Anderson go at 1 and 2, our preference order should be;
Hayden Young - as highlighted elite kick, reads the game really well and can control tempo to a level I haven't seen any other junior do
Lachie Ash - also a half back flanker but more in the Zac Williams run and carry mould, only have Young just ahead because he's a better kick, but Ash has him on speed
Luke Jackson - again, doesnt need much said, exceptional and fits a long time need

 

[TryAnHit]

Assuming Green doesn't get bid on before 6 and Rowell + Anderson go at 1 and 2, our preference order should be;
Hayden Young - as highlighted elite kick, reads the game really well and can control tempo to a level I haven't seen any other junior do
Lachie Ash - also a half back flanker but more in the Zac Williams run and carry mould, only have Young just ahead because he's a better kick, but Ash has him on speed
Luke Jackson - again, doesnt need much said, exceptional and fits a long time need

Green no bid is 0 imo before 6
Adel or Sydney will bid or force a trade

 

[PMBangers]

Green no bid is 0 imo before 6
Adel or Sydney will bid or force a trade

I don't doubt it, but unless our recruitment team have decided they're inept I can't see us not moving to Adelaides pick, in which case two of Young, Jackson or Ash (also wouldn't be unhappy with Stephens) will be available to choose from. Personally would considered this whole trading/pick swap debacle a failure if it's anyone but Young

 

[TryAnHit]

I don't doubt it, but unless our recruitment team have decided they're inept I can't see us not moving to Adelaides pick, in which case two of Young, Jackson or Ash (also wouldn't be unhappy with Stephens) will be available to choose from. Personally would considered this whole trading/pick swap debacle a failure if it's anyone but Young

I agree
I think we will trade with you and pick up Stephens who is prob a bit early for us at 4

 

[PMBangers]

I agree
I think we will trade with you and pick up Stephens who is prob a bit early for us at 4

Wouldn't say too early for Stephens, but I rate him higher than anyone else I know, perfect fit for you fellas tho

 

[Cobwebs]

This would all be wasted if Melbourne bid on Green. There is form with Heeney.

 

[Danny88]

This would all be wasted if Melbourne bid on Green. There is form with Heeney.

It wouldn’t be a needs based bid... doubt you guys do

 

[Determinant]

This would all be wasted if Melbourne bid on Green. There is form with Heeney.

It wouldn't be a huge shock (to me) if we didn't match at 3 assuming Melbourne don't want to deal, I'd expect Serong to go first 5 which would leave us with either Young or Ash at 6. Not an ideal outcome for us missing Green, but either of those is a draft win given our needs

 

[Cobwebs]

It wouldn’t be a needs based bid... doubt you guys do

Yeah just going off JT's comments the other day. He did talk Green up.

 

[Cobwebs]

It wouldn't be a huge shock (to me) if we didn't match at 3 assuming Melbourne don't want to deal, I'd expect Serong to go first 5 which would leave us with either Young or Ash at 6. Not an ideal outcome for us missing Green, but either of those is a draft win given our needs

Like Young myself, hoping he is what we use 3 on if we keep it.

 

[TryAnHit]

It wouldn't be a huge shock (to me) if we didn't match at 3 assuming Melbourne don't want to deal, I'd expect Serong to go first 5 which would leave us with either Young or Ash at 6. Not an ideal outcome for us missing Green, but either of those is a draft win given our needs

Agree could see gws passing and taking an outside yet... you have enough inside mids

 

[PMBangers]

Yeah just going off JT's comments the other day. He did talk Green up.

Everything list managers say around this time is for a reason, JT named 3 players we've been heavily linked to, if he was anymore obvious he'd have said "up your offer GWS"

 

[Giant Strides]

Everything list managers say around this time is for a reason, JT named 3 players we've been heavily linked to, if he was anymore obvious he'd have said "up your offer GWS"

Obviously Melbourne's under no obligation to do any trade, but there's no point GWS trading up to get someone + Green if there's insufficient points in the remaining 2019/2020 picks to actually pay for Green under the rules in place. So there's a clear limit on what GWS can offer.

 

[PMBangers]

Obviously Melbourne's under no obligation to do any trade, but there's no point GWS trading up to get someone + Green if there's insufficient points in the remaining 2019/2020 picks to actually pay for Green under the rules in place. So there's a clear limit on what GWS can offer.

Absolutely there's no obligation from Melbourne or Adelaide to do a trade.
but as I've said there's no other way to look at this than as a failure if we don't get a player before Green though, as 12 and 18 was more than enough points to match a Green bid and would've left us with another pick as compensation. So Dees or Crows can reem us in a deal, because we're the only ones with anything to lose

If Dees bid on Green we currently have to match with our whole pick 6 and get points from pick 40, that'd knock it back to pick 43. Where as to match a bid at 3 with 12 and 18, we'd use all of 12 and only about half of 18, giving us Green and pick 38.

Overall, and this will likely make me sound like a complete nuff, but all we've done is gift St Kilda Howard, Ryder and heavily assist in getting them Hill while stuffing ourselves in the mean time

 

[Giant Strides]

Overall, and this will likely make me sound like a complete nuff, but all we've done is gift St Kilda Howard, Ryder and heavily assist in getting them Hill while stuffing ourselves in the mean time

Perhaps, but as I've said previously, you can only trade with those clubs that are willing to do so.

In this draft it's broadly acknowledged (although happy to bow to your own thoughts as a draft watcher) that there's a drop off in quality after the first several. So I think that 12 & 18 alone were never going to get close to grabbing Melbourne's pick 3 or Adelaide's pick 4. Ignore the 'points value' as that's not truly representative of how the clubs value top 10 picks. A possibility of getting Sydney's pick 5 given their machinations for Daniher, but ultimately none of those 3 clubs were motivated enough to sell, whereas St Kilda were motivated to sell pick 6 early. I'm sure that GWS felt that getting pick 6 gave them better leverage to make the small step up to pick 3 or 4; presumably they offered a player as well as picks but neither Melbourne nor Adelaide were motivated to sell (as is their right).

I'm firmly of the view that doing the trade was appropriate at the time - no future trades are set in stone, you make your trading choice and bargain with what you have. Now, GWS does have the option to trade backwards if it's not going to get ahead of a bid on Green. I'd be confident that Geelong would love to get their hands on pick 6, and their picks 14 & 17 would essentially reverse our St Kilda trade; enable a match on Green and get a later pick (yes, that may need a swap of picks 36/40 also.) Brisbane also could be motivated to sell several of their picks to get to 6, giving us the points and a pick in the 30s.

That's apart from any machinations with swapping between picks this year and next year in a 'pick parking' exercise that Freo & GWS could look to do (provided AFL signed off on it). But unlike Sydney/Eagles swap last year, there's a better equivalence this year in value terms.

So my view is that we still have options - though there's still work for the team to do to get the best result for us.

 

[eth-dog]

Following on from this from Determinant:

Delahunty and a decent rebounding half back prospect are probably the two main priorities in that case

I ended up taking Brock Smith as a half back and Sam Lowson as a small forward, not realising I still had a pick later that I can use on Delahunty until recently (although it is outside points range so hopefully nobody bids on him until after pick 56).

 

[Giant Strides]

I ended up taking Brock Smith as a half back and Sam Lowson as a small forward, not realising I still had a pick later that I can use on Delahunty until recently (although it is outside points range so hopefully nobody bids on him until after pick 56).

I'm interested on your description and thoughts on Brock Smith. I must admit I know nothing about him other than his description - it seems to indicate he's good as a lockdown defender & reasonable in the air & rebounding, but relatively slow. How would you assess him against Harry Perryman and Adam Kennedy - those two being the nearest I would see in role? Also, thoughts on his selection as opposed to say Josh Shute at that point of the ND? I know the latter is more of a pure winger (probably another of our deficiencies IMHO) and also described as not particularly quick, but seems to get plenty of ball on the outside and is pretty effcient in his disposal.

 

[eth-dog]

I'm interested on your description and thoughts on Brock Smith. I must admit I know nothing about him other than his description - it seems to indicate he's good as a lockdown defender & reasonable in the air & rebounding, but relatively slow. How would you assess him against Harry Perryman and Adam Kennedy - those two being the nearest I would see in role? Also, thoughts on his selection as opposed to say Josh Shute at that point of the ND? I know the latter is more of a pure winger (probably another of our deficiencies IMHO) and also described as not particularly quick, but seems to get plenty of ball on the outside and is pretty effcient in his disposal.

I see him slower but a better kick than both. Shute was one I really considered but he's not great as a one on one defender which I hate from hb.

 

[PMBangers]

I'm interested on your description and thoughts on Brock Smith. I must admit I know nothing about him other than his description - it seems to indicate he's good as a lockdown defender & reasonable in the air & rebounding, but relatively slow. How would you assess him against Harry Perryman and Adam Kennedy - those two being the nearest I would see in role? Also, thoughts on his selection as opposed to say Josh Shute at that point of the ND? I know the latter is more of a pure winger (probably another of our deficiencies IMHO) and also described as not particularly quick, but seems to get plenty of ball on the outside and is pretty effcient in his disposal.

Smith is a tad taller than both Kenners and Perryman so has the ability to take guys around the 191cm mark as well as smaller opponents, but yes is pretty slow. He's got the right attitude to fit in with our seemingly new found mongrel approach on field, regularly an instigator and gets under his opponents skin with a bit of niggle.
In my phantom I had us taking Shute, he's pretty light but a good wing prospect

 

[Giant Strides]

Kenners probably has about 3 years left, until he hits 30 & I suspect his speed wanes. Has been great for us as that unsung, mid-roster performer. Can play 1-on-1 OK (IMHO), has a bit of zip to rebound, can mark (avg 5 pg), solid kick (78% DE this year, 80% career). We should look to replace him in time (and Reid too from where he played a lot this year), hence why someone like Ash or Young are on our radar. The penetrating kick portion of Smith's description is good from that perspective, the lack of speed not. Still, late second round you know you're getting someone with limitations. Probably depends what playing style we're after. Thanks PM.

 

[Danny88]

Kenners probably has about 3 years left, until he hits 30 & I suspect his speed wanes. Has been great for us as that unsung, mid-roster performer. Can play 1-on-1 OK (IMHO), has a bit of zip to rebound, can mark (avg 5 pg), solid kick (78% DE this year, 80% career). We should look to replace him in time (and Reid too from where he played a lot this year), hence why someone like Ash or Young are on our radar. The penetrating kick portion of Smith's description is good from that perspective, the lack of speed not. Still, late second round you know you're getting someone with limitations. Probably depends what playing style we're after. Thanks PM.

Could this be Cumming’s spot?