Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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HARKER said:
This town ain't big enough for the both of us.........and it ain't me who's gonna leave.

Can you imagine if MLG ousted Liddle and kept his mate SOS?
How do we allow ourselves to keep slipping into these predicaments? When are we going to have an administration that just gets things right?
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We should've just kept everything in house.
List Manager Stephen Silvagni
CEO Alex Silvagni
President Serge Silvagni
 
I think it's pretty obvious how this all played out.

MLG isn't a bad guy nor is he blatantly incompetent. You don't get as far as he has in this world as he has if you are (even those who've been silver spoon fed get found out before reaching the point he has). I think his biggest problem is that his natural character is to be everybody's best mate. We've heard examples - from posters on this board - who have said what a lovely guy he is, how engaging he is, etc, etc. There's nothing wrong with having people at the club with that type of personality. In fact, it's endearing. However, ultimately, that's the wrong personality type to be an overseeing presidential type. It's the type who, for lack of better words, is brushed aside too easily and fails to take a hard line stand when it's required.

SOS had everyone headed in the right direction. However, 2018 and the first half of 2019 screwed him into a fate worse than Bolton. It shouldn't have. Strong personality type but always wanting to do the best for the football club in his eyes. Great when everyone is on board with you but...

Liddle was always a strong personality type. As strong a personality as Silvagni but with a job title that gave him power over Silvagni. With the way that his signing was promoted -- "look at how good he was with Richmond" -- that's the horse he rode in on. When things faltered with Bolton it had a natural follow on effect to SOS. Cain would have been "This is the way I did it at Richmond... This is what worked... This is how it will be here too" and that sadly ended up with a Liddle Vs SOS situation and SOS having the lesser role was always going to draw the short straw regardless of his and his family's historic and continued contributions at the club.

No. It would not have happened with a stronger personality type at president. The president would have told Cain to stay in his lane and to lead the financial resurgence of the club.

Ultimately, SOS is paying for 2018 and the first half of 2019 and has lost out to an equally big personality but who is in an even more superior role.
 

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HARKER said:
If it is as simple as that, how the fu** was that allowed to go on? Are there no barriers in place, or is it a free-for-all again?

So amateur for all the posturing guised as professionalism. Shits me quite frankly.
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Yes I'm wondering why it's taken until November and SOS being almost out the door for it to be addressed. If the CEO was out of line it should have been taken care of straight away.
 
JustaBattler said:
WRONG!!!

Most properly managed companies employing best practice governance have the finance or control function as a separate report to the Board NOT the CEO. This is just ONE classic example of 'triangulation' getting various independent views from different sources to a Board.

I will say it again - the CEO title at a football Club is ceremonial - it does NOT imply total control or even influence over separate areas of vital importance to the functioning of a Club - all these areas should be separate reports in the formal sense.

if that newspaper article is correct and players were invited to tour Carlton - without SOS's knowledge it is an absolute disgrace.
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I haven’t read the article and of course I agree a CEO shouldn’t be inviting players to tour who the list manager has no interest in, totally agree.

On the flip side, if the coach is desperate to bring back a player and the recruitment team agree and the CEO is keen as well as the Prez then SOS shouldn’t have the power to overrule them all.

On your CEO comment being ceremonial, maybe it is, If so then who is making the decisions? Who is making all the staff appointments and how are the boundaries of this role being mixed up?
 
Blue__Balls said:
Remind me - what has SOS achieved so far as a List Manager to warrant being attributed with an "elite track record"?

I rate his work very highly, don't get me wrong, but there's some serious Navy Blue glasses in any definitive statement that he's the best going around.

He, along with some unprecedented handouts from the AFL, helped build GWS up to a flag contender, but that was an 8-year process with more than just his finger in the pie.

He stripped back our list and facilitated a monumental rebuild, and while there are signs we're on track now, we still finished 3rd last in 2019.

My personal belief, is that he's a fantastic operator if you want/need to think well outside the box to generate list turnover, or to build a team from the ground up. I'm not so sure he's as strong at maintaining a list long-term, or securing limited numbers of key personnel, and that's based only on the fact that I haven't seen him do it to any great degree. Maybe he'll be good at that too, if he gets the chance?

Honestly, I think we as fans just need to roll with the punches. The club won't always do things we agree with, but there is nothing the club could ever do that won't have some detractors (this board proves that on a daily basis). If Liddle and SOS aren't playing nice, and SOS feels it's best for him to move on, that's his call to make. It tells me either the relationship is catatonic, or he was half considering leaving for other reasons anyway and this is just the feather that tipped the scale.

Either way, he moves on, the club moves on, the next soldier steps up, and everyone gets on with the task of winning games of footy. Not something to lose sleep over.
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Problem needs to be fixed. So, hypothetical, SOS departs, we hire "x", the best list manager in the world and Liddle tours the park with player "y" without the list managers knowledge and around we go again.

I don't see anything wrong with Liddle or Lloyd going to the list manager and saying they have ties to such and such, what's your thoughts, but to take someone through and give them the sense of "we will make you an offer" as was done to Ellis, is just wrong on so many levels.
 
Sin City said:
Yes I'm wondering why it's taken until November and SOS being almost out the door for it to be addressed. If the CEO was out of line it should have been taken care of straight away.
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What we've seen (or at least from the outside) is that the new guy in town gets the keys to the city.

I've heard that a review was to take place around our List Management/Recruitment department and that not all were happy. That though didn't come up 4 months ago when the s**t initially hit the fan.

It's an indictment on our operation for this to continue to happen. We're an unhappy team (football department) at Carlton.
Fact is it all starts at the top. It just does and to allow it to fester for so long? How can we not 'fix' it? Not good enough.
 
HARKER said:
If it is as simple as that, how the fu** was that allowed to go on? Are there no barriers in place, or is it a free-for-all again?

So amateur for all the posturing guised as professionalism. Shits me quite frankly.
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Let the baker bake the bread, Harks?
 
dangerousdane said:
Really, you’re unhappy with a list manager/recruiter and don’t want him to continue but then let him take charge of one of the most important nights of the year?
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I am not unhappy with Silvagni. Cops a lot of heat but he has done a fantastic job.

The only reason why you wouldn't allow SOS to be there on draft night is if you think he's a risk of intentionally doing the wrong thing by the club on the night. And if you think that is even a remote possibility I would suggest you're not thinking logically about the situation.
 
Wickzki said:
Liddle was always a strong personality type. As strong a personality as Silvagni but with a job title that gave him power over Silvagni. With the way that his signing was promoted -- "look at how good he was with Richmond" -- that's the horse he rode in on. When things faltered with Bolton it had a natural follow on effect to SOS. Cain would have been "This is the way I did it at Richmond... This is what worked... This is how it will be here too" and that sadly ended up with a Liddle Vs SOS situation and SOS having the lesser role was always going to draw the short straw regardless of his and his family's historic and continued contributions at the club.
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Yeah but Liddle didn't do all this at Richmond. He wasn't CEO there. He predominantly worked on membership strategies and alternative revenue streams.
 

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Blue__Balls said:
Remind me - what has SOS achieved so far as a List Manager to warrant being attributed with an "elite track record"?

I rate his work very highly, don't get me wrong, but there's some serious Navy Blue glasses in any definitive statement that he's the best going around.

He, along with some unprecedented handouts from the AFL, helped build GWS up to a flag contender, but that was an 8-year process with more than just his finger in the pie.

He stripped back our list and facilitated a monumental rebuild, and while there are signs we're on track now, we still finished 3rd last in 2019.

My personal belief, is that he's a fantastic operator if you want/need to think well outside the box to generate list turnover, or to build a team from the ground up. I'm not so sure he's as strong at maintaining a list long-term, or securing limited numbers of key personnel, and that's based only on the fact that I haven't seen him do it to any great degree. Maybe he'll be good at that too, if he gets the chance?

Honestly, I think we as fans just need to roll with the punches. The club won't always do things we agree with, but there is nothing the club could ever do that won't have some detractors (this board proves that on a daily basis). If Liddle and SOS aren't playing nice, and SOS feels it's best for him to move on, that's his call to make. It tells me either the relationship is catatonic, or he was half considering leaving for other reasons anyway and this is just the feather that tipped the scale.

Either way, he moves on, the club moves on, the next soldier steps up, and everyone gets on with the task of winning games of footy. Not something to lose sleep over.
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Before SOS came onboard. Our list was as bad as Fitzroy.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Let the baker bake the bread, Harks?
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I don't know but that makes sense to me. The CEO is not the List Manager.

If someone has a beef with Silvagni shouldn't it come from the Head of Football? Doesn't that make more sense?

Maybe Silvagni can have a crack at a membership drive? Why not? Cross-pollination is good right.......*!
 
barass70 said:
The Prez ain’t happy believe you me
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The situation from what we have ascertained is untenable. I would honestly prefer if Liddle left before SOS, but l perhaps that is the heart talking.
 
Blue__Balls said:
Remind me - what has SOS achieved so far as a List Manager to warrant being attributed with an "elite track record"?

I rate his work very highly, don't get me wrong, but there's some serious Navy Blue glasses in any definitive statement that he's the best going around.

He, along with some unprecedented handouts from the AFL, helped build GWS up to a flag contender, but that was an 8-year process with more than just his finger in the pie.

He stripped back our list and facilitated a monumental rebuild, and while there are signs we're on track now, we still finished 3rd last in 2019.

My personal belief, is that he's a fantastic operator if you want/need to think well outside the box to generate list turnover, or to build a team from the ground up. I'm not so sure he's as strong at maintaining a list long-term, or securing limited numbers of key personnel, and that's based only on the fact that I haven't seen him do it to any great degree. Maybe he'll be good at that too, if he gets the chance?

Honestly, I think we as fans just need to roll with the punches. The club won't always do things we agree with, but there is nothing the club could ever do that won't have some detractors (this board proves that on a daily basis). If Liddle and SOS aren't playing nice, and SOS feels it's best for him to move on, that's his call to make. It tells me either the relationship is catatonic, or he was half considering leaving for other reasons anyway and this is just the feather that tipped the scale.

Either way, he moves on, the club moves on, the next soldier steps up, and everyone gets on with the task of winning games of footy. Not something to lose sleep over.
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Nice fence sitters view of the world. "Don"t get me wrong SOS is good. I rate him highly.....but let's roll with the punches". Also as far as positive evidence goes, all indications are in the right direction. It is 2 years too early to really tell which makes it pretty convenient for bureaucrats to get rid of him. Melbourne never recovered when Norm Smith and Barrassi left. You keep high performing favourite sons
 
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