Phantom Draft PMBangers 2019 Draft Thread - 2020 Rankings included

[PMBangers]

Hey Bangers, are there any players you haven't got going to a club in your first 4 rounds you think are still worth a shot in the National Draft? Or would be a steal in the rookie draft

I really like Toby Mahony as a big midfielder/ forward from GWV Rebels, also from the Rebels Mitch Martin who's also a mid forward but more light and probably more of a full time forward at AFL level. Zak Pretty (Eastern Ranges), Daniel Sladojevic (South Adelaide), Josh Gore (Broadbead/GCS Academy), Jaxon Prior (West Perth), Jarvis Pina (Peel Thunder) are others I would probably be sending to clubs in a fifth round. Haven't really considered Mature Agers outside of Riccardi in this phantom, but some older guys that I feel deserve ND selection as well are; Ben Sokol, Mitch Hibberd and Marcus Lentini, who I'd definitley have in the 5th round (sooner in a revised phantom)

 

[Yojimbo]

Hey PMBangers nice work, I saw you squeezed Jake Riccardi in as a mature, what do you think the prospects
of Ben Sokol, Ajang Ajang and Angus Baker are of being drafted in the national draft ? There are a few
others, but I think they can be prelisted under the Zac Clarke rule.

 

[PMBangers]

Hey PMBangers nice work, I saw you squeezed Jake Riccardi in as a mature, what do you think the prospects
of Ben Sokol, Ajang Ajang and Angus Baker are of being drafted in the national draft ? There are a few
others, but I think they can be prelisted under the Zac Clarke rule.

Touched on Sokol previously, anywhere 35+ feels right, apparently has flown over to Victoria for more interviews recently.

Ajang Ajang is a rookie if he gets picked up I feel, good prospect at the right height but doesn't get enough of it at WAFL level to warrant a ND selection imo

Baker I'd be comfortable with from the 3rd round onwards, good NEAFL numbers and the scope to fill in anywhere on field

 

[jusjoshin]

... I don't think Darcy has come one as well as the Dockers would've liked ...

Really? How many other 3rd year rucks are getting a game in the firsts? English has played a few, can't think of any others. We are pretty happy with how he's tracking. He missed a bit with some injuries, but he's improving his fitness. We wouldn't trade him willingly I don't think. We have Lobb as a pretty handy backup, but we might think about another ruck. Maybe we'll grab Jackson, but it would be a best available pick, not really for needs.

 

[PMBangers]

Really? How many other 3rd year rucks are getting a game in the firsts? English has played a few, can't think of any others. We are pretty happy with how he's tracking. He missed a bit with some injuries, but he's improving his fitness. We wouldn't trade him willingly I don't think. We have Lobb as a pretty handy backup, but we might think about another ruck. Maybe we'll grab Jackson, but it would be a best available pick, not really for needs.

Maybe I've been harsh on Darcy, and it's unfair to compare him to Grundy/Gawn given how good they are, but with the positive impact they've had I think overlooking someone with similar potential in Jackson isn't something Fremantle will do, especially with him being a homegrown product as well, but with all the talk of Melbourne, Adelaide, GWS and Sydney being interested it's looking more likely Jackson won't be there at 7

FWIW it's not that I think Darcy will be a spud, but I see him reaching the level of Scott Lycett, good in the ruck but not really a game changer

 

[Joao]

Maybe I've been harsh on Darcy, and it's unfair to compare him to Grundy/Gawn given how good they are, but with the positive impact they've had I think overlooking someone with similar potential in Jackson isn't something Fremantle will do, especially with him being a homegrown product as well, but with all the talk of Melbourne, Adelaide, GWS and Sydney being interested it's looking more likely Jackson won't be there at 7

FWIW it's not that I think Darcy will be a spud, but I see him reaching the level of Scott Lycett, good in the ruck but not really a game changer

I agree with your last point and frankly I don't mind. Plus Lycett and Vardy gave both Gawn and Grundy a bath in the PF and GF last year.

 

[eastfreo75]

Maybe I've been harsh on Darcy, and it's unfair to compare him to Grundy/Gawn given how good they are, but with the positive impact they've had I think overlooking someone with similar potential in Jackson isn't something Fremantle will do, especially with him being a homegrown product as well, but with all the talk of Melbourne, Adelaide, GWS and Sydney being interested it's looking more likely Jackson won't be there at 7

FWIW it's not that I think Darcy will be a spud, but I see him reaching the level of Scott Lycett, good in the ruck but not really a game changer

You make some valid points.

Do a team need a star ruck to be successful?

The Last four flags went to teams with good foot soldier rucks.

 

[PMBangers]

You make some valid points.

Do a team need a star ruck to be successful?

The Last four flags went to teams with good foot soldier rucks.

Don't think that's relevant, drop Grundy and Gawn into almost any side and they immediatedly improve, just because successful teams in the past haven't had the A+ Rucks doesn't mean you shouldn't try and get that quality of player.

Either way though appears Freo posters don't want it to happen

 

[Joao]

Don't think that's relevant, drop Grundy and Gawn into almost any side and they immediatedly improve, just because successful teams in the past haven't had the A+ Rucks doesn't mean you shouldn't try and get that quality of player.

Except to drop either of those two in you have to remove one of your current top 5 players to afford them. If got to pay your ruckman outside the cap then I'd almost take someone like Jackson at number 1.

 

[PMBangers]

Except to drop either of those two in you have to remove one of your current top 5 players to afford them. If got to pay your ruckman outside the cap then I'd almost take someone like Jackson at number 1.

I wasn't going to let reality get in the way of a hypothetical in all honesty, but even then I'd say removing one of Fremantles top 5 players (Not Fyfe for obvious reasons) for a Grundy/Gawn still makes you a better a side

 

[Joao]

I wasn't going to let reality get in the way of a hypothetical in all honesty, but even then I'd say removing one of Fremantles top 5 players (Not Fyfe for obvious reasons) for a Grundy/Gawn still makes you a better a side

Yeah, because we are dire.

Pick a side in the top 6 and do the same thing.

 

[PMBangers]

Yeah, because we are dire.

Pick a side in the top 6 and do the same thing.

GWS? Geelong?

 

[GUMBLETRON]

...or take Grundy out of Collingwood and add another midfielder.

 

[Peel67skin]

GWS? Geelong?

Brisbane? Sfefan martin don't get any younger. big O and Luke Jackson an interesting pairing too.

 

[PMBangers]

Brisbane? Sfefan martin don't get any younger.

But removing a Zorko/ Cameron/ McCluggage to get Grundy/Gawn in probably doesn't improve them overall, whereas removing someone like Kelly for us to get them would improve us

 

[Joao]

GWS? Geelong?

Ok take Danger out and put Grundy there. Do they get better?

...or take Grundy out of Collingwood and add another midfielder.

Swap Grundy for Cameron and Pies are better.

 

[PMBangers]

Ok take Danger out and put Grundy there. Do they get better?

Swap Grundy for Cameron and Pies are better.

I thought it was implied I wouldn't remove any teams best player (hence why I said any Fremantle player bar Fyfe), so sorry for the confusion, but I wouldn't say a swap of Danger and Grundy would make Geelong better no, swapping Grundy for a Blicavs/ Stewart (I'm not awfully familiarwith how Geelong would rate their players) however would

 

[Joao]

I thought it was implied I wouldn't remove any teams best player (hence why I said any Fremantle player bar Fyfe), so sorry for the confusion, but I wouldn't say a swap of Danger and Grundy would make Geelong better no, swapping Grundy for a Blicavs/ Stewart (I'm not awfully familiarwith how Geelong would rate their players) however would

I agree with Blicavs or Stewart, but I also highly doubt either are on 900k+.

This is an opportunity cost thing for me, and I don't rate rucks high enough to warrant the cost of the top dogs.

 

[PMBangers]

Have spent the last 2 weeks reviewing footage from the NAB League, Champs, SANFL, WAFL, NEAFL, comparing notes to earlier in the year and finalised my top 50 for this year. Decided against involving players above draft age as factoring them in becomes a bit tricky for pure rankings. Thanks all for reading throughout the year, I should have my final phantom out by the Monday of Draft Week

 

[briztoon]

View attachment 776317

Have spent the last 2 weeks reviewing footage from the NAB League, Champs, SANFL, WAFL, NEAFL, comparing notes to earlier in the year and finalised my top 50 for this year. Decided against involving players above draft age as factoring them in becomes a bit tricky for pure rankings. Thanks all for reading throughout the year, I should have my final phantom out by the Monday of Draft Week

If you’ve watched NEAFL, not sure how you don’t have Keidean Coleman on that list, but do have D’Intinosante.

 

[PMBangers]

If you’ve watched NEAFL, not sure how you don’t have Keidean Coleman on that list, but do have D’Intinosante.

Decided against involving players above draft age as factoring them in becomes a bit tricky for pure rankings.

 

[eastfreo75]

Don't think that's relevant, drop Grundy and Gawn into almost any side and they immediatedly improve, just because successful teams in the past haven't had the A+ Rucks doesn't mean you shouldn't try and get that quality of player.

Either way though appears Freo posters don't want it to happen

Most Freo posters want Jackson, I don’t.

Ruck is the easier position to trade in.

Traditionally talls are higher risk than med sized players.

Also, I think Darcy and Lobb is a pretty good ruck combo.

Not sure how Darcy, Lobb and Jackson play in the same team.

 

[PMBangers]

Most Freo posters want Jackson, I don’t.

Ruck is the easier position to trade in.

Traditionally talls are higher risk than med sized players.

Also, I think Darcy and Lobb is a pretty good ruck combo.

Not sure how Darcy, Lobb and Jackson play in the same team.

Rucks are easy to trade for when they're mediocre, if the only thing you want a ruck to do is tap the ball and fill a spot then yes trading them in is the way to go, I still argue that Jackson has Grundy traits, and Grundy has been the difference for Collingwood against other top quality sides such as Geelong, Richmond, Brisbane, Western Bulldogs and GWS.
I still think the most likely pick for Freo come draft night is Jackson,and I think it's the right pick unless Stephens is available.

To address the 'Talls are higher risk' comment, I agree 100%, but it's also that attitude that led to Fremantle having Pavlich as the only above average tall forward for a good chunk of his career (correct me if I'm wrong on chunk of his career).

 

[eastfreo75]

Rucks are easy to trade for when they're mediocre, if the only thing you want a ruck to do is tap the ball and fill a spot then yes trading them in is the way to go, I still argue that Jackson has Grundy traits, and Grundy has been the difference for Collingwood against other top quality sides such as Geelong, Richmond, Brisbane, Western Bulldogs and GWS.
I still think the most likely pick for Freo come draft night is Jackson,and I think it's the right pick unless Stephens is available.

To address the 'Talls are higher risk' comment, I agree 100%, but it's also that attitude that led to Fremantle having Pavlich as the only above average tall forward for a good chunk of his career (correct me if I'm wrong on chunk of his career).

Great discussion.

Fremantle not getting a key forward except Pav is actually more complex than not taking the risk.

Justin Longmuir was an early pick but he had to retire early because of a knee injury.

Polak went pick 4 but didn’t work out as well.

Murphy went at pick 12 but didn’t work out.

Apeness went pick 17 but couldn’t get over his injuries.

If you can give me example of Fremantle skipping over a tall because of the risk factor.

The Only one I can think of is Darling. That’s not because of his height. The kid in his draft year was regularly getting blind drunk in public.

We skipped on Grundy because we had Sandilands and a fit Zac Clarke and we went with WA kid.

 

[PMBangers]

Great discussion.

Fremantle not getting a key forward except Pav is actually more complex than not taking the risk.

Justin Longmuir was an early pick but he had to retire early because of a knee injury.

Polak went pick 4 but didn’t work out as well.

Murphy went at pick 12 but didn’t work out.

Apeness went pick 17 but couldn’t get over his injuries.

If you can give me example of Fremantle skipping over a tall because of the risk factor.

The Only one I can think of is Darling. That’s not because of his height. The kid in his draft year was regularly getting blind drunk in public.

We skipped on Grundy because we had Sandilands and a fit Zac Clarke and we went with WA kid.

Fair enough, I can see how those picks backfiring would make Freo fans reluctant to want Jackson, can't say I went too far back with my research so you got me with Longmuir, Polak and Murphy. Apeness was a riddled with injuries so an unfortunate case there. Can't really argue in hindsight about selections made, I personally had Naughton as the best pick for 5 in 2017 but I know that wasn't an unanimous view so can't criticise that either

I won't criticise selections late in the draft either as talls around then are speculative at best, which really leaves me with nothing to go on. End of the day even if you can't agree Jackson is a need then you have to see that he is in the conversation as best available, which is what a lot of clubs look at for those top 10 selections