What version of AFC is this?
Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread
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Asian Football Confederation
Is this actually happening? Do you know what the logic is?
What I find most absurd about global soccer politics and "governance" is this concept of preventing government interference in soccer federations governance processes (which came up when the franchises were trying "reform" the FFA). The reality is, this basically just boils down to a ban on democratic countries with functioning institutions and power separation having any say in the running of a sport they fund to the multi-millions. Corrupted authoritarian regimes get free reign
Our Game
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- #1,654
Ouch!and it was on TV!
| 784 | 22/11/2019 | W-League: Adelaide United v Sydney FC |
- Moderator
- #1,655
why is that ouch!. nearly a 1K people for a womens domestic match is not that bad.
manicmagpie
A slice of fried gold
A-League Rd 7:
WSW v Melb City - 12,078
Well v Bris - 6,790
Adel v Vict - 12,198
Perth v Syd - 8,741
CCM v W Utd - 5,075
WSW v Melb City - 12,078
Well v Bris - 6,790
Adel v Vict - 12,198
Perth v Syd - 8,741
CCM v W Utd - 5,075
So after 7 rounds of the A league, the total number of people that have been through the gates ("official" crowds given there have been a number of pretty audaciously inflated crowd numbers) is 373,473.
The AFL's round 1 attendance this year was 380,159
And, on a completely unrelated note, just to commemorate the career of David Gallop who is finishing up as FFA CEO, let's reflect on his greatest hit
'Football will be the biggest sport in Australia,' says FFA chief
The FFA chief executive David Gallop has declared that the game will become the biggest and most popular sport in Australia
Never gets old (well, it's 6 years old already to be fair
)
That is pretty ouch. Its not much more than some amateur VWFL games were getting in its last year or 2. Unlike the AFL, who (for the moment) can absorb a lot of the cost of a womens league, the FFA is not really in that position. As competition in the womens sport space increases, there will be considerable upward pressure on pay. 884 people at a game = not much gate takings, not much in the way of food/drink/merchandise, and not much incentive for sponsors.
Its probably sufficient for now, but the next time there is a pay deal for the W league, and pay in all the other sports are going up, and the FFA cannot afford the shortfall between W league costs and income, things will get interesting.
- Moderator
- #1,659
The W-league exists to help develop the next Maltidas more than anything. The Maltidas is the showpiece, not the W-league. So I find any ouch ignores that key reason. Maybe it just my low expectations but 800 people is not a small amount and showcases growth in this area for the W-league. Heck, only 1 domestic women's sport makes any real money from "gate takings"(Netball) anyway. (quick edit: looking up last year, Adel utd crowds ranged from 650-1100 odd for home games. like I said, really, ouch????)
As for pay deal. Perhaps the w-league will lag behind in the domestic front in coming years. But Sammy Kerr just signed a 600K a season deal , on top of her FT national contract. Can you see an AFLW player getting close to that in 10 years time....The women's scene will be just like the men's scene. Perhaps the AFL can offer some of the best deals for a lot of girls on home soil, but the biggest contracts will always be for the big international sports. As such, talent will always be coming through both sports.
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- #1,660
A league "official" attendance after 7 rounds
Attendance Statistics :: Totals / Averages :: Ultimate A-League
From the Attendance Statistics section, you access crowd statistics for all A-League Men's competition seasons and matches.
www.ultimatealeague.com
Is less than afl's round 1 attendance
- Moderator
- #1,662
Don't you mean AFL "official" round 1 attendance. If we are throwing baseless crap around without any evidence......A league "official" attendance after 7 rounds
Attendance Statistics :: Totals / Averages :: Ultimate A-League
From the Attendance Statistics section, you access crowd statistics for all A-League Men's competition seasons and matches.
Is less than afl's round 1 attendance
This could get fun. Or very tiresome very quickly.
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If you want to get really tired, howabout you search for a comment on the AFL attendance thread where you took umbrage at the soccer trolls insisting that the Giants crowd counts were inflated? I suspect you'll be looking for a long time
Obviously the only hard evidence would be a whistleblower confirming crowd inflation
Short of that, we'll have to settle with SMFC mike's excellent estimates based on tweeted photos that demonstrate that there is no chance stated crowds are correct....
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
Re the 880 people attending a W-League match. The fact is that that amount of paying customers (and many would not have paid) would not cover the cost associated with charging for entry.
In fact, you could imagine that AFLW clubs get much more out of 10,000 attending their games with free entry than what a W-League club gets for the 880 who attend.
And that's before we even consider the fact that most AFL clubs are selling AFLW memberships, even though entry is for free.
A small club like mine, a couple of seasons back, sold 2,000 AFLW memberships, can't remember the cost, it was something like $80 (for 3 or 4 free home games!).
That's basically a donation of $160,000 for the womens team. You'd have to get a lot of paying customers to net that much.
In fact, you could imagine that AFLW clubs get much more out of 10,000 attending their games with free entry than what a W-League club gets for the 880 who attend.
And that's before we even consider the fact that most AFL clubs are selling AFLW memberships, even though entry is for free.
A small club like mine, a couple of seasons back, sold 2,000 AFLW memberships, can't remember the cost, it was something like $80 (for 3 or 4 free home games!).
That's basically a donation of $160,000 for the womens team. You'd have to get a lot of paying customers to net that much.
That is a policy that will get the league in trouble fast, if it is a policy, which I suspect not. Given it wasn't that long ago ago that the Matildas played world cup warm up games in closed stadiums, to save money, I think seeing the Matildas as a world class worthwhile entity that can generate interest and money is a new found discovery of the FFA. Running the W league at a loss to bolster the Matildas was about a million miles from their thinking imop.
The other issue is, the biggest competitor to the A league is the Socceroos, and the biggest competitor to the W league are the Matildas. The notion that a successful high profile national team will automatically help grow the domestic league is false. Numerous sports have shown us that.
But even if they are looking at the W league as a feeder to the Matildas, and not a real top of the range domestic league in its own right, this doesn't change the limited capacity of the FFA to absorb losses in the comp, and the likelihood those losses are going to rise significantly.
W league went for quite a long time with minimal pay for players, and with lots of players getting nothing. They haven't discovered the inherent value of womens sport over the last 3 or 4 years. The league got embarrassed, and in particular, the PFA got embarrassed. They let players playing for professional clubs effectively subsidise the clubs out of their own pocket, just so they could get a game. They were forced into paying all players, and they will be forced to pay more, and I doubt the capacity of the league to do it.
The AFL is also dragging its feet on pay a bit, but that is due to the fact they think the AFLW can go a long way to subsidising itself, and if it can, pay will reflect this.
The W league absolutely needs to be able to pay a good part of its own costs, and 800 odd doesn't cut it. That this is a decent crowd compared to the past doesn't matter, they weren't paying a bunch of their players in the past, and most of those they did pay got bugger all.
It's comical that people still think that all-eggs-in-the-national-team-basket strategy has any hope of success. Jingoism is all tip without an no ice berg. People swallowed up in it think it is all that matters but ultimately most people are only part time jingoists at best.
It is going to be truly fascinating how the "independence" of the A League and W League plays out. It is hard to see how it results in any serious growth in W League salaries. The franchise owners are trying to reduce their costs!
Every chance the much heralded "equality" deal with the Matildas has a white flag hidden in it for the W League.
- Moderator
- #1,667
I disagree via the national teams. They correlate. A-league used to get a boost after a world cup IIRC. More importantly, a successful national team gets more money than an unsuccessful one
The W-exists because of the Matildas. After all, it was founded before women sport was "cool". There was a recent report to try and get more people to watch the W-league, so there have been efforts to extend its footprint. but it will always exist, in one way or another due to this. Should they get more for Adel Utd. Like I said, perhaps I have low expectations, but what should the league get. It is in the ballpark of last year. Shouldn't that be the most logical comparison of growth? Lets put it this way. 800 is roughly 10% of the average attendance of men's team of Adelaide Utd. Would that match up roughly with the AFLW/AFL % difference? I don't know, but I am guessing it is in the ballpark. Correct me if I am wrong.
And yes, the FFA is late on the bandwagon of women's sport despite this. The w-league was 5 years ago was everything you said. Can the FFA fully afford it on their own? no. But they get funding from FIFA and government grants to continue the league as it builds everything they like. It builds the Matildas, who got 10-15K paying spectators twice this month. Its an investment for that. I can't see the W-league keeping pace with other domestic sports. But it just needs to give girls suitable compensation for the time and effort they put into the sport. If they are good enough, they will make a killing overseas.
No domestic women's sport* pays itself. Not even the WBBL would with its attendance figures and TV ratings.
*excluding Netball
- Moderator
- #1,668
You were saying... I have cut some parts of the conversation. That is just this year.
My viewpoint hasn't changed. It is purely guesswork doubting official figures, so why bother. purely subjective and always with a motive. Like your friend below.
You make a good comparison; you and "soccer trolls". Just remember, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
I think national team performance is a short term thing (in terms of rubbing off on a club comp). There's plenty of emperical evidence.
For starters, the two biggest professional sports in the land don't have much of a national team focus (Rugby League has a little bit, but SOO is stacks more popular domestically, whether the Kangaroos do well or not has zero bearing on the rest of RL).
Also, look how short lived Rugby's WC success was, winning two of three WCs at the time, plus a few Bledisloe Cups - did it translate into anything long term. No.
You could also argue that the rise of the BBL had nothing to do with the performance of the national team, that it filled a market niche in terms of its timing.
For starters, the two biggest professional sports in the land don't have much of a national team focus (Rugby League has a little bit, but SOO is stacks more popular domestically, whether the Kangaroos do well or not has zero bearing on the rest of RL).
Also, look how short lived Rugby's WC success was, winning two of three WCs at the time, plus a few Bledisloe Cups - did it translate into anything long term. No.
You could also argue that the rise of the BBL had nothing to do with the performance of the national team, that it filled a market niche in terms of its timing.
I agree that it is really hard to make women's sport pay, but this makes it more important, not less. A league relying on government grants and being subsidised by head office is really limited in what it can do.
I also think national teams need to be the cream, not the cake. Doing it the other way around will not work.
Build a strong financially viable national domestic league, and the national team will take care of itself.
The reverse is not true, the domestic comp should be the goal.
The W league should be judged on the basis of where it needs to go, not where it came from.
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- #1,671
How NWSL attendance looks post-Women's World Cup — and what clubs are doing to sustain it
As expected, evidence of a World Cup bump has shown up throughout the league. But certain clubs are also just plain operating smarter now.
au.sports.yahoo.com
There is a bump. it is sustaining it that is the hard part. But a bump shouldn't be talked down on. It is an increase of people who get interested after all. That should never be a bad thing. And some bumps don't go away. The English womens scene, for example, is going from one bump to another. It has been helped by other factors but it is possible to sustain the growth.
The impact of England success on women's football – from top to bottom
Post-World Cup research reveals big rise in fans of the women’s game and large increase in pitch bookings by women’s teams
I think there is a correlation between national team success and domestic league success. If one does well, the other benefits. Super Rugby glory years were around the last world cup. The A-league was strongest when Kewell and the golden age of players were coming back. In both of those above cases, the national teams went downhill and so did the leagues. Or the league went downhill and the national team suffered. Who can say?
I think the national focus should be the aim of the w-league. Don't get me wrong, You can't ignore the W-league or treat it as the Sheffield shield but use one to sustain the other. They tried last year with Kerr. Looking on the outside, I am not sure that was truly success or not. Really, how large can you really grow a women's soccer league here in Australia? What is the potential max reach? If the mens a-league gets lost in the shuffle, what hope do the women really have? At least the Matildas will always have a place in the sun.
The queer thing is, I am the one talking down on the w-league and you are the one talking it up and thinking positively about what it should really be achieving.
BringBackTorps
Club Legend
- Jan 5, 2017
- 2,963
- 1,827
- AFL Club
- GWS
If you are correct, then the W League might be in trouble.
The U19 Matildas, who have failed to qualify for the U20 World Cup, have just been flogged in their last 3 games, & leaked 21 goals. Soccer experts in Australia say their coaching is inept/skill standards have crashed.
'The whole Young Matildas system is wrong': Pressure on overhaul after another failed youth World Cup campaign
After losing 9-1 to South Korea and conceding 21 goals to North Korea, Japan and South Korea in three games, serious questions are being asked about the development of our elite female footballers in Australia.
thewomensgame.com
It also appears that the adult Matildas are likely to continue to fall down the world rankings, due to the rise of female European soccer.
I think the years they squandered on the W league created an image or view of it that is now acting like a dead weight. How they treated it was consistent with the general view of women's sport, but you cannot have a relatively amateur, relatively low key and unpublicised league run for years, and then just turn the dial up.
How NWSL attendance looks post-Women's World Cup — and what clubs are doing to sustain it
As expected, evidence of a World Cup bump has shown up throughout the league. But certain clubs are also just plain operating smarter now.
There is a bump. it is sustaining it that is the hard part. But a bump shouldn't be talked down on. It is an increase of people who get interested after all. That should never be a bad thing. And some bumps don't go away. The English womens scene, for example, is going from one bump to another. It has been helped by other factors but it is possible to sustain the growth.
The impact of England success on women's football – from top to bottom
Post-World Cup research reveals big rise in fans of the women’s game and large increase in pitch bookings by women’s teamswww.theguardian.com
I think there is a correlation between national team success and domestic league success. If one does well, the other benefits. Super Rugby glory years were around the last world cup. The A-league was strongest when Kewell and the golden age of players were coming back. In both of those above cases, the national teams went downhill and so did the leagues. Or the league went downhill and the national team suffered. Who can say?
I think the national focus should be the aim of the w-league. Don't get me wrong, You can't ignore the W-league or treat it as the Sheffield shield but use one to sustain the other. They tried last year with Kerr. Looking on the outside, I am not sure that was truly success or not. Really, how large can you really grow a women's soccer league here in Australia? What is the potential max reach? If the mens a-league gets lost in the shuffle, what hope do the women really have? At least the Matildas will always have a place in the sun.
The queer thing is, I am the one talking down on the w-league and you are the one talking it up and thinking positively about what it should really be achieving.
This is where the AFL, being late to the party, worked in their favour. They were able to create a narrative and buzz from the start, without any baggage.
Cricket probably came from a similar place to soccer, but they spent up big, and created a brand new shiny comp to highlight.
I followed the W league for a number of years, moreso than the A league. It's what actually got me interested in women's footy before it become the next big thing. I wanted to find out where women's footy was compared to the W league, which was no where pretty much.
It did mean I knew of most of the key people and players prior to the AFLW being announced, and the contrast between the birth of the AFLW and the W league was stark.
It's always been pretty clear to me that women's sport was the new codewars battleground.
Around here, there was no women's teams 4 years ago, last year there was 6, next year there will be more.
There used to be the odd girl playing in a boy's comp, now there are girls comps.
A large portion of these women/girls came from soccer.
I dont have any figures to back it up, but I wouldn't mind betting girls soccer here has gone backwards, maybe enough that soccer overall has gone backwards a little bit, note that I don't think this is a trend.
I do think there are parts of the country that will see the same effect.
WA now has over 60 women playing in the AFLW, a couple come from here. That's a powerful draw, as powerful as Sam Kerr imop. She is a great role model, but seeing a girl from your club, or school, or neighbourhood make it into the AFLW is a huge draw for the league, and there are lots and lots of girls in the AFLW.
I think the FFA still don't really get the W league, and what's at stake.
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- Apr 20, 2006
- 9,142
- 12,202
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- Carlton
It is piss poor but it is abit like a football game being played over 4 days and going on the fourth day to watch the fourth quarter when a team is up by 20 goals. Cricket is also strange in that a lot of the time people don’t really care what they are playing for. Just abit of pride
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