Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[ferball]

It's really simple then. Change the requirements to a 3/4 year uni degree. Equals a better education and it would lead to increased pay. Then you can put them in the same bracket as teachers. What is their base pay these days? $72k a year?

Until that change takes place you can't say $20 an hour isn't enough when some are declared "educated" after a 3-month tafe course. That's not how it works. Supply and demand - if you're fed up earning $20 a week...well...unlucky for you because there are another 200+ coming through TAFE and other courses ready to take your spot.

At the moment it would take longer reading 'baby sitters club' the series vs. getting a Tafe certificate.

I think you'll find that is where I was going with this. Although teachers should get more too. $72K is * all really. Its nearly $10K below this years average wage. This page reckons its less between 65 - 70 starting out.

Three charts on teachers’ pay in Australia: it starts out OK, but goes downhill pretty quickly

Teachers get paid a decent starting salary but they soon fall behind other professionals the longer they stay in the job.

theconversation.com

Good teachers will work 60 or 70 hours a week from day 1. So even less money considering all they do. Its actually getting closer to 20 bucks an hour too.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I think you'll find that is where I was going with this. Although teachers should get more too. $72K is fu** all really. Its nearly $10K below this years average wage. This page reckons its less between 65 - 70 starting out.

Three charts on teachers’ pay in Australia: it starts out OK, but goes downhill pretty quickly

Teachers get paid a decent starting salary but they soon fall behind other professionals the longer they stay in the job.

theconversation.com

Good teachers will work 60 or 70 hours a week from day 1. So even less money considering all they do. Its actually getting closer to 20 bucks an hour too.

Why are teachers even being compared to medical, math & engineering degrees?

The format is rubbish.

The do have a point with the law & arts degrees.

 

[Val Keating]

These are some badass ants
These ants decorate their homes with the heads of their enemies
We’re beginning to understand how and why one species goes after larger foes—and it may have something to do with evading kidnapper ants.

These ants decorate their homes with the heads of their enemies

We’re beginning to understand how and why one species goes after larger foes—and it may have something to do with evading kidnapper ants.

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[Groin guru]

I think you'll find that is where I was going with this. Although teachers should get more too. $72K is fu** all really. Its nearly $10K below this years average wage. This page reckons its less between 65 - 70 starting out.

Three charts on teachers’ pay in Australia: it starts out OK, but goes downhill pretty quickly

Teachers get paid a decent starting salary but they soon fall behind other professionals the longer they stay in the job.

theconversation.com

Good teachers will work 60 or 70 hours a week from day 1. So even less money considering all they do. Its actually getting closer to 20 bucks an hour too.

It is a lot of prep work early days = more so that you feel confident but after a while, it's a hell of a lot easier because curriculum changes tend to be slow. Do the same year/class for a few years and the only variables are the students.

It's not different from most other jobs in that there is a lot of thankless tasks. Extra feedback on marking is one big example. You aren't really encouraged to do more and that comes down to schools preying on you really caring for the students.

More weeks off in the year compared to other jobs is a big factor. My next-door neighbour a few years ago is a teacher and he'd have 8-10 weeks off a year and get home nice and early. Not bad.

I think 70k for a 1st-year teacher is around the mark. More if you work at a private school. I swear the teacher's union signed an agreement a few years ago that it would start at 70k and increase to 75k after 3 years.

 

[ferball]

These are some badass ants
These ants decorate their homes with the heads of their enemies
We’re beginning to understand how and why one species goes after larger foes—and it may have something to do with evading kidnapper ants.

These ants decorate their homes with the heads of their enemies

We’re beginning to understand how and why one species goes after larger foes—and it may have something to do with evading kidnapper ants.

www.nationalgeographic.com

My missus breeds ants (and spiders, scorpions, massive centipedes and even stick insects of various varieties.) No native ones do that sort of thing afaik.

 

[Snake_Baker]

My missus breeds ants

?

 

[ferball]

 

[ferball]

No native ones do that sort of thing afaik.

10 minutes later it turns its not uncommon for Australian ants to decorate nests with parts of their enemies bodies.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This video is disturbing

David Leyonhjelm considers appeal against Sarah Hanson-Young defamation decision

Former Liberal Democrat senator David Leyonhjelm says he is considering "his options for appeal" after Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young successfully sued him for defamation.

www.abc.net.au

 

[ferball]

Why are teachers even being compared to medical, math & engineering degrees?

The format is rubbish.

The do have a point with the law & arts degrees.

Specifically why wouldn't they?

They're simply comparing wages and how those wages change with experience.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Specifically why wouldn't they?

They're simply comparing wages and how those wages change with experience.

One group are the natural sciences, the others are arts degrees.

Teaching isn't in the same stratosphere as medicine or engineering.

 

[ferball]

One group are the natural sciences, the others are arts degrees.

Teaching isn't in the same stratosphere as medicine or engineering.

It is if you teach science or maths.

Engineering isn't exactly rocket science (unless you specialise and do very well.) Its basically a science degree with applied aspects.

Medicine is the same. At least to a point. There's a world of difference between some GPs and good neurologists or surgeons for example.

But the point of the article, esp re the first graph, is to compare the way every single one of those other degree positions has massive increases in wages over the first two decades compared to teaching.

You're always banging on about the importance of science. if motivated, intelligent natural/hard science grads don't teach the subject then future kids won't get the same levels or respect and love for it that you have. They won't be motivated to seek scientific careers. Therefore its important to pay those teachers well enough to attract people who would otherwise be chasing big bucks in those more glamourous careers.

 

[Val Keating]

You can’t compare eras. with the sheer size weight of these guys coming thru, these guys are much quicker also.
let’s be honest if any of the aforementioned went up against either of the Klitschko brothers they’d probably be walking away with a loss.

No one comes close to to Ali (Maybe Jack Johnson but that’s almost a fairytale). The Klitschkos aren’t even in the same conversation. Ali had it all.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It is if you teach science or maths.

No. It really isn't.

 

[DesertRoo]

No one comes close to to Ali (Maybe Jack Johnson but that’s almost a fairytale). The Klitschkos aren’t even in the same conversation. Ali had it all.

It’s always an interesting debate..
although id take the professionalism of now over then, the new guys are bigger stronger and fitter then guys of the 60s. it wouldn’t even be a fair fight. if Ali fought today he would be sitting in the cruiserweight division.

Also think you’re under playing the Klitschko's here. they were so dominate over a decade they basically killed heavy weight boxing.

 

[Val Keating]

It’s always an interesting debate..
although id take the professionalism of now over then, the new guys are bigger stronger and fitter then guys of the 60s. it wouldn’t even be a fair fight.

Also think you’re under playing the Klitschko's here. they were so dominate over a decade they basically killed heavy weight boxing.

If they’re having a hypothetical fight, they would both be in the same era, there for the professionalism would be the same.

Ali was 6 ft 3, Vladimir 6 ft 6, Vitali 6 ft 7. It’s a lot bigger but still think Ali would out box them, especially because they win by KO’s.

 

[Snake_Baker]

If they’re having a hypothetical fight, they would both be in the same era, there for the professionalism would be the same.

Ali was 6 ft 3, Vladimir 6 ft 6, Vitali 6 ft 7. It’s a lot bigger but still think Ali would out box them, especially because they win by KO’s.

Ali would win because of the quality of the opponents he cut his teeth against.

The talent pool for boxing is sparse by comparison now.

 

[Hojuman]

Give 'ya a nasty nip Furry ?

 

[Snake_Baker]

If those things weighed 50kgs, there would be no humans.

 

[DesertRoo]

If they’re having a hypothetical fight, they would both be in the same era, there for the professionalism would be the same.

Ali was 6 ft 3, Vladimir 6 ft 6, Vitali 6 ft 7. It’s a lot bigger but still think Ali would out box them, especially because they win by KO’s.

Haha you can’t move the yard stick..
I think Ali was one the greats if all time but you put him in a ring against Tyson. and he probably gets his arse handed to him.
not a slight on Ali, they’re just from different eras.

 

[DesertRoo]

Ali would win because of the quality of the opponents he cut his teeth against.

The talent pool for boxing is sparse by comparison now.

This is clearly revisionism at it’s finest. There’s no scientific analysis apart from your gut feelz.

I might put it an easier way,
who would win in a tennis match Rod Laver vs Roger Federer?

 

[Snake_Baker]

This is clearly revisionism at it’s finest. There’s no scientific analysis apart from your gut feelz.

I might put it an easier way,
who would win in a tennis match Rod Laver vs Roger Federer?

Tennis is NOT boxing.

Surely mate.................SURELY..............you cannot equate the pool of talent in boxing with that which was around 40 years ago or earlier?

I personally know blokes in their early 40's who are getting offered undercard bouts just so promoters can fill up an event.

 

[DesertRoo]

Tennis is NOT boxing.

Surely mate.................SURELY..............you cannot equate the pool of talent in boxing with that which was around 40 years ago or earlier?

I personally know blokes in their early 40's who are getting offered undercard bouts just so promoters can fill up an event.

How about swimming, running, weightlifting?
name an individual sport where you would see someone plucked from the 60s and being able to compete today.

im not doubting these blokes are champions and you can only compete at who is front you.

but there’s a ridiculous professionalism gap that basically is impossible to overcome.

 

[Snake_Baker]

How about swimming, running, weightlifting?
name an individual sport where you would see someone plucked from the 60s and being able to compete today.

im not doubting these blokes are champions and you can only compete at who is front you.

but there’s a ridiculous professionalism gap that basically is impossible to overcome.

Boxing has not altered as radically as those sports over the years, and the pool of competitors is significantly smaller.

Post WWII every second male kid in the world was in a boxing gym.

 

[DesertRoo]

Boxing has not altered as radically as those sports over the years, and the pool of competitors is significantly smaller.

Post WWII every second male kid in the world was in a boxing gym.

Post ww2 if every kid had the same diet, spare time, access to AIS or the equivalent, you might have a leg to stand on. But going to your local gym at punching a bag is way way different to getting in fight shape nowdays.

How much to you think someone like Wilder would spend on training camps, doctors, peds? They really leave no stone unturned. The professionalism is where the change has come.

if you’re looking purely at the numbers it just doesn’t stack up.