Opinion Stephen Silvagni

[Blue__Balls]

B_B - It is a mess of Liddle's making - he didn't understand the importance of 'managing' SOS out and controlling the narrative from a positive perspective versus 'forcing' him out. This is CEO #101 stuff. Now all sorts of opinions and emotions and stuff can fly around the place - it will be very hard to control - because SOS is a big name at Carlton and has been a big target since coming back - from certain elements in the media - all with links to Richmond btw ...

Gotcha, Richmond conspiracy...

 

[Sector 7G]

I think you'll find the new list manager will need to work collaboratively with the Senior Coach, rather than the CEO. Something SOS was never good at.

Are you naive enough to think Clarko has no say over list management decisions at Hawthorn?

Hawthorn and Carlton's lists are in completely different places. With the number of holes in our list in the past few years, SOS should not have been distracted by the coaches requests.

I don't remember being naive enough to comment on how Clarkson should collaborate with the Hawthorn list manager.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

He’s sticking up for his old man and addressing the rumours that SOS is leaving because of his performance.

Silvagni’s stick together as all families should. When the dust settles let’s just hope all parties can move on without animosity.

You are probably right and SOS leaving probably isn’t a bad thing for the club because it has to be a major conflict of interests having him in the role that he is with two sons at the club and no matter how professional we think someone is biased is natural for 99% of us.

 

[JustaBattler]

Gotcha, Richmond conspiracy...

Want to play like that- Ok no problem champ.

 

[Stamos]

You are probably right and SOS leaving probably isn’t a bad thing for the club because it has to be a major conflict of interests having him in the role that he is with two sons at the club and no matter how professional we think someone is biased is natural for 99% of us.

It's not so much that he's leaving (which would apparently have happened in 12 months time), it's the way that it's happened. Liddle should not have been causing this amount of conflict at the Club.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Yikes, I would not want SOS leaving now. I am assuming he still has relationship with players from different teams (trying to poach) from previous years. Why would we throw out all the ground work now? All the trade assets and cap space he has made seems like we throwing out our future plans.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Want to play like that- Ok no problem champ.

You went there, JaB.

We don't have to agree, I'm simply seeing a lot of self-perpetuating stuff floating around and trying to balance it out. If all people on this forum read is that Liddle was "running list management" and "overruled SOS on Ellis", they're going to take it as "truth" when all it is is speculation someone has convinced themself of.

Dealing in facts - Liddle didn't force SOS to recuit Ellis, Teague and Liddle were both advocating for recruiting Betts, SOS was leaving end of next year regardless, SOS does in fact have 2 sons on the list, and may have a third in 12 months.

Beyond that, the "Kick Liddle out instead" stuff, and the "Carlton is now Liddleton" stuff, looks more like the usual BF chicken little response than anything solid.

 

[JustaBattler]

You are probably right and SOS leaving probably isn’t a bad thing for the club because it has to be a major conflict of interests having him in the role that he is with two sons at the club and no matter how professional we think someone is biased is natural for 99% of us.

The potential for conflict in the situation was a very real one - the management of the conflict and the exit planning for SOS has been managed into a broohaha - this is the issue.

 

[Ockhams razor]

I'd be interested in understanding Lloyd's role. He's on the executive (SOS's boss) and I assume reports to Liddle as CEO?

Stuck in the middle or taking sides.... not a fun position.

.....

The more things change eh? ....

Lloyd not in the middle, clearly taken a position in this.

 

[Stamos]

Lloyd not in the middle, clearly taken a position in this.

So now we need to fill 3 key positions?

 

[GoBlues!]

This whole episode takes me back to 1979. I loved Jezza, as we all did. He was shafted and in no way deserved it. Finished his playing day's at the Aints and probably has not returned to the club since.

I don’t remember Jezza getting shafted.

He tied his allegiances to the President George Harris, and when Harris was voted out, Jezza decided to resign. I was pissed off with Jezza for leaving at the end of 1979, because of his loyalty to the ex-president and not the club.

 

[HARKER]

The only way for Silvagni to come back, would be for another President to come in, sack Liddle and off we go again.
I don't think it can now come about with MLG at the helm, as this situation is well beyond him, having let it play out the way it has.

Not saying it's all MLG's fault, but that's the only way I can see it coming about.....but then again, I think it's all too far down the track, anyway.

We've lost Silvagni just when he's ironed out some of the finer detail about his List Management ways, but he also did have a little too much authority going.
How did that come about?

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

All seems unnecessary and avoidable to me and now we are losing arguably the most innovative list manager in the country because of it

Forget about the past deeds of SOS versus the 2 years of Liddle‘s reign as CEO, it’s about what’s best for our football club from 2020 onwards...

Unfortunately we seem to have screwed this up... AGAIN

 

[JustaBattler]

You went there, JaB.

We don't have to agree, I'm simply seeing a lot of self-perpetuating stuff floating around and trying to balance it out. If all people on this forum read is that Liddle was "running list management" and "overruled SOS on Ellis", they're going to take it as "truth" when all it is is speculation someone has convinced themself of.

Dealing in facts - Liddle didn't force SOS to recuit Ellis, Teague and Liddle were both advocating for recruiting Betts, SOS was leaving end of next year regardless, SOS does in fact have 2 sons on the list, and may have a third in 12 months.

Beyond that, the "Kick Liddle out instead" stuff, and the "Carlton is now Liddleton" stuff, looks more like the usual BF chicken little response than anything solid.

The reason why I have decided to use colour is that I am personally invested in Carlton's rise -and couldn't give a fig about a sales guy who has chosen to describe Bolton as " a coach on training wheels" OR SOS as having "conflicts of interest"

Both those summary twitter lines came from Liddle and are memes now sullying the reputations of two men who have worked very hard under the most difficult circumstances to get Carlton back to some form of potential relevance. The lack of respect for both from the Punt Rd interloper is what grates and why I decided to throw back at him - exactly the type of summary memes he likes to employ when dancing on people's graves.

One can apologise and make up all sorts of scenarios to justify Bolton getting sacked ( I agree) or SOS leaving because of the sons situation and perhaps ( even) time for dictatorship style leading is over - however the manner in which both cases were mismanaged is unpalatable, unprofessional and unbecoming.

That is my 'read' I could be wrong Liddle could be an angel and SOS has just decided to chuck a tanty - that narrative suits some - just not me.

 

[Doro]

This situation seems largely of Liddle's making, the replacement for SOS is of greatest interest now. SOS had a strong record with GWS in the role prior to his switch, someone with a similar record should be required now.

 

[doormat73]

The only way for Silvagni to come back, would be for another President to come in, sack Liddle

Imho Liddle position is now untenable whether SOS goes or stays.
SOS is far more valuable to the Club. In addition there is potential danger in terms of list raid with another club

Replace Liddle now with incoming CFO Ian Prendergast. Keep SOS & MLG.

 

[GT619]

I think you'll find the new list manager will need to work collaboratively with the Senior Coach, rather than the CEO. Something SOS was never good at.

Are you naive enough to think Clarko has no say over list management decisions at Hawthorn?

it cost Bolton’s job. I felt sos and Bolton didn’t get along. Last years draft everyone shaked hands. Last week we saw none

 

[Gavstar]

Yikes, I would not want SOS leaving now. I am assuming he still has relationship with players from different teams (trying to poach) from previous years. Why would we throw out all the ground work now? All the trade assets and cap space he has made seems like we throwing out our future plans.

Interesting to hear Jack Martin's comments on SOS last week. One of the reasons why he came to us specifically rather than panic and elect to go to another Melbourne club when a deal with GCS was looking difficult, he certainly trusts SOS.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The reason why I have decided to use colour is that I am personally invested in Carlton's rise -and couldn't give a fig about a sales guy who has chosen to describe Bolton as " a coach on training wheels" OR SOS as having "conflicts of interest"

Both those summary twitter lines came from Liddle and are memes now sullying the reputations of two men who have worked very hard under the most difficult circumstances to get Carlton back to some form of potential relevance. The lack of respect for both from the Punt Rd interloper is what grates and why I decided to throw back at him - exactly the type of summary memes he likes to employ when dancing on people's graves.

One can apologise and make up all sorts of scenarios to justify Bolton getting sacked ( I agree) or SOS leaving because of the sons situation and perhaps ( even) time for dictatorship style leading is over - however the manner in which both cases were mismanaged is unpalatable, unprofessional and unbecoming.

That is my 'read' I could be wrong Liddle could be an angel and SOS has just decided to chuck a tanty - that narrative suits some - just not me.

I wanna see more from this JaB.

 

[Crippa#9]

SOS was leaving in 12 months anyway.

Liddle hasn't taken charge of every recruiting decision.

This is getting blown way out of proportion by knee-jerk emotional responses.

I’ve got no doubt a lot of this has been probably blown out but the facts are:
*There is clearly disharmony and mistrust between Silvagni & Liddle. Not good.
*Board don’t appear unanimous. Not good.
*Jack is effectively criticising the CEO on twitter... Not good.
*angry supporter base. Not good.
*in SOS, We’ve lost a very effective List Manager, recruiter and talented negotiator. Not good.
*The CEO & President are nowhere to be heard from. Not good.

In an off season where this should be overwhelming positivity (particularly after draft week) there is the opposite. Not good.

 

[rampar]

List manager is the most important role at a club. IMO ofcourse.

 

[Gavstar]

it cost Bolton’s job. I felt sos and Bolton didn’t get along. Last years draft everyone shaked hands. Last week we saw none

There is an inherent conflict with a list manager totally rebuilding a team for sustained success and the short term focus of a new coach coaching for their career.

Giants went this route and were willing to lose big but built the right culture, Sheedy didn't care as his legacy was established.

Bolton on the other hand needed short term success and thus players like Deluca were picked despite my prediction that he would not help Bolton in the short term as he got injured just before selection.

The only reason we can contemplate SOS leaving is that we are nearly there and this draft to me was now focused plan B's if some players don't work out or as longer term replacements for aging players.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Why do I get the horrible feeling there will be an Emergency General Meeting Called around Christmas Time.

The Unofficial Carlton match/selection committee (The folks who instigated the end of the Elliott regime) are going to cause problems for the club following this sagalowifear (they are pretty much a group of Old Man Yells at Cloud type of Grampa Simpons who have delusions of grandeur and act like they wield power above their station).

Really hate to be a doomsayer, but this scenario has the potential to get worse before it gets better for the club (knowing the political history at the club and those meddlers from the UCSC)

Also without trying to take sides on this fiasco, I am starting to believe HARKER's opinion of events, I think Loguidace let the bad blood between SOS and Liddle fester on for too long.

 

[My Hat]

The fact of SOS's departure is much less concerning to me than the manner of it. If he wasn't leaving now he'd be leaving in 12 months time, and probably rightly so given where his kids are at now. In a perfect world we'd keep SOS's skills & creativity without the potential conflicts of interest, but that's not an option so sooner or later we were always going to lose him.

The way it's come about is much more disappointing. Jack liking those tweets suggests the pressure on SOS and/or his frustration has been pretty significant, otherwise it would be easy enough for Jack to just shrug it off and ignore the tweets. I was initially quite positive on Liddle based on how well he presents publicly, but the CEO has to be able to manage his people effectively. I want to feel confident about the management of the club. Right now I don't.

 

[Lace_Out]

Imho Liddle position is now untenable whether SOS goes or stays.
SOS is far more valuable to the Club. In addition there is potential danger in terms of list raid with another club

Replace Liddle now with incoming CFO Ian Prendergast. Keep SOS & MLG.

MLG can go too, this all happened under his watch. The fish rots from the head as others have put it in the past.

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