Rumour AFL expansion

[plugger66]

Rofl

You know what the difference is between an average and a total right?

I certainly do. If there was 100 games and a million saw them do you honestly think if there 50 games and 999999 saw them previously the afl would tell the world attendances are up. They would be laughed out of any world. Is Bradman the 70th best bat ever to play the game because 69 players are ahead of him. Wowee

 

[BrutThough]

Thanks for that. 36 k a game in 2009. 35k now. Can you explain how I’m wrong? It’s like taking candy from a kid. It’s sad

More games on every week, so the overall crowd numbers are higher it but the average attendances are down.

And there are more games now being played in niche markets with lower crowd capacities than the crowd they would expect being played at the clubs normal home venues which contributes to lowering the average attendees per game.

 

[sdfc]

Swans in. Best supported club outside the AFL.

 

[plugger66]

More games on every week, so the overall crowd numbers are higher it but the average attendances are down.

And there are more games now being played in niche markets with lower crowd capacities than the crowd they would expect being played at the clubs normal home venues which contributes to lowering the average attendees per game.

And to counteract that there is bigger stadiums in Perth and south Australia since 2009. Much bigger and a lot are filled. I love this stuff. You can’t win. I also love the afl and in this day and age they are doing so well compared to other sports to keep their crowds but I still believe there is a tipping point. They wouldn’t want the standard to drop much more.

 

[BrutThough]

And to counteract that there is bigger stadiums in Perth and south Australia since 2009. Much bigger and a lot are filled. I love this stuff. You can’t win. I also love the afl and in this day and age they are doing so well compared to other sports to keep their crowds but I still believe there is a tipping point. They wouldn’t want the standard to drop much more.

Not exactly. The numbers say the 2019 season was the highest attended Home and Away season of all time. They also say crowds have grown for the past 3 seasons.

Will this growth continue? no one knows but the numbers shows the overall crowds are not down like you first said.

 

[plugger66]

Not exactly. The numbers say the 2019 season was the highest attended Home and Away season of all time. They also say crowds have grown for the past 3 seasons.

Will this growth continue? no one knows but the numbers shows the overall crowds are not down like you first said.

As I said if there was 50 games and 999999 attended could anyway honestly get away with saying attendances are up if there were 100 games and a million attended. You are taking the piss if you don’t think attendance improvement isn’t decided by averages.

Having said that if you really want to use that redicoulos idea then 2018 was more popular.

 

[jwikked]

And to counteract that there is bigger stadiums in Perth and south Australia since 2009.

So what you're saying is, crowds are up. Got it, thanks for the info.

 

[plugger66]

So what you're saying is, crowds are up. Got it, thanks for the info.

Crowds are down unless you believe Bradman isn’t as good as gavasker. Seriously it’s like discussing things with ants.

 

[BrutThough]

As I said if there was 50 and 999999 attended could anyway honestly get away with saying attendances are up if there were 100 games and a million attended. You are taking the piss if you don’t think attendance improvement isn’t decided by averages.

If you want to look at averages so badly, let's compare the averages of home and away games from the time GWS entered the competition since this is the competition structure we are currently following and will give us a better understanding of current crowd behaviours than the data from 16 team competition.

2019 - 35122
2018 - 34818
2017 - 34010
2016 - 31850
2015 - 32257
2014 - 32333
2013 - 32163
2012 - 31509

So what these averages tell us is that crowds stayed at a consistent level between 2013 and 2015, dropped in 2016 which coincidentally is the year one of the largest clubs in the competition had their team suspended for drug cheating, but the crowd averages have grown each year since 2017 with 2019 being the highest average since the AFL became a 18 team competition.

WOW, these averages did give a more in-depth look at how crowds have grown recently.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Interesting. Crowds are down. Ratings are down Memberships are up because cats are allowed to be members. The game is great but what you said is completely wrong. Apart from that you are right

where are you getting the figures that ratings are down ? Channel 7's broadcasts of the footy are fairly consistant although they have been reported as being lower the digital subscription of games is huge, the use of programs such as Kayo is growing so in a traditional sence TV ratings are down but the access to games is much much higher on other platforms so from a stand point of total numbers veiwing the game ratings are on the rise .

crowds are down ill give you that.. a number of factors come into play with that, cost of a day at the footy is pushing (especially in WA) many people out of the affordability of attending amd with the availability to watch when you want from the comfort of home for very cheap yeah numbers have dropped ... but this is an issue the AFL is looking into especially in the space of affordability with them doing promos like Kids get in free etc.

Cats are not counted as members .. this is one of the stupidest half truths that has ever gained legs to become "fact". i asked this question directly to Matt Finnis at the 2017 suporters group meeting around what constitutes a membership. Any AFL club can sell whatever they want as a membership be it pet membership, supporters membership, a waiting to become a member membership.. whatever. But for the AFL to count the membership as a reportable membership it has to cover a certain criteria on the cost of the membership, the access to games of the membership and the voting rights of the membership.. now thats not to say you cant buy a full membership with voting rights and game access for your Cat and have it counted but the $20 pet membership does not count as a membership number in the reporting of member numbers

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Wowee. You do realise that only 11 and 16 games were counted 10 years ago. I thought you may have told me how 35 is bigger than 36

that is compleatly false ... interstate membership has always been a 5 game membership and since the 90's that has been considered and counted as a membership ... interstate members have had voting rights at the AGM for over 20 years that constitutes them being counted as membership numbers ....
by all means i can show you the files from the last 20 years of the Western Saints being an incorporated entity that states from the club that membership is defined by the voting rights of the member in the Clubs AGM ... unless of course you are telling me the club lied to the West Australian Department of Commerce in our constitutional minutes about that is classed as a membership for the last 20 years.. i hope not cause ill be screwed if thats the case ....

time to sit down old cob ... this is something you clearly have NFI about

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

More games on every week, so the overall crowd numbers are higher it but the average attendances are down.

And there are more games now being played in niche markets with lower crowd capacities than the crowd they would expect being played at the clubs normal home venues which contributes to lowering the average attendees per game.

he wont understand it ...

 

[plugger66]

that is compleatly false ... interstate membership has always been a 5 game membership and since the 90's that has been considered and counted as a membership ... interstate members have had voting rights at the AGM for over 20 years that constitutes them being counted as membership numbers ....
by all means i can show you the files from the last 20 years of the Western Saints being an incorporated entity that states from the club that membership is defined by the voting rights of the member in the Clubs AGM ... unless of course you are telling me the club lied to the West Australian Department of Commerce in our constitutional minutes about that is classed as a membership for the last 20 years.. i hope not cause ill be screwed if thats the case ....

time to sit down old cob ... this is something you clearly have NFI about

Interesting person you are. Yes forgot interstate members. Of course they are counted. Should never forget you. The chip and all that. Point stands. Many more types of memberships are counted now. It’s not that hard to work out. Record membership every year yet not record crowds every year. Simply because there are more categories of counted members nearly every year. Very smart by the afl because it looks great. Angry man.

 

[plugger66]

where are you getting the figures that ratings are down ? Channel 7's broadcasts of the footy are fairly consistant although they have been reported as being lower the digital subscription of games is huge, the use of programs such as Kayo is growing so in a traditional sence TV ratings are down but the access to games is much much higher on other platforms so from a stand point of total numbers veiwing the game ratings are on the rise .

crowds are down ill give you that.. a number of factors come into play with that, cost of a day at the footy is pushing (especially in WA) many people out of the affordability of attending amd with the availability to watch when you want from the comfort of home for very cheap yeah numbers have dropped ... but this is an issue the AFL is looking into especially in the space of affordability with them doing promos like Kids get in free etc.

Cats are not counted as members .. this is one of the stupidest half truths that has ever gained legs to become "fact". i asked this question directly to Matt Finnis at the 2017 suporters group meeting around what constitutes a membership. Any AFL club can sell whatever they want as a membership be it pet membership, supporters membership, a waiting to become a member membership.. whatever. But for the AFL to count the membership as a reportable membership it has to cover a certain criteria on the cost of the membership, the access to games of the membership and the voting rights of the membership.. now thats not to say you cant buy a full membership with voting rights and game access for your Cat and have it counted but the $20 pet membership does not count as a membership number in the reporting of member numbers

Wowee. Lots of love

 

[George]

Cats are not counted as members .. this is one of the stupidest half truths that has ever gained legs to become "fact". i asked this question directly to Matt Finnis at the 2017 suporters group meeting around what constitutes a membership. Any AFL club can sell whatever they want as a membership be it pet membership, supporters membership, a waiting to become a member membership.. whatever. But for the AFL to count the membership as a reportable membership it has to cover a certain criteria on the cost of the membership, the access to games of the membership and the voting rights of the membership.. now thats not to say you cant buy a full membership with voting rights and game access for your Cat and have it counted but the $20 pet membership does not count as a membership number in the reporting of member numbers

This is correct.

I've said a million times before and on several occasions to P66 that anything $50 or above is counted in the membership total. I don't know how many times he has mentioned in every years membership thread that they count more than they used to 10 years ago but the fact still remains $50 or above is counted. They could bring out a membership pack for the fingernail on my left thumb, if it's less than $50 it won't count.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Interesting person you are. Yes forgot interstate members. Of course they are counted. Should never forget you. The chip and all that. Point stands. Many more types of memberships are counted now. It’s not that hard to work out. Record membership every year yet not record crowds every year. Simply because there are more categories of counted members nearly every year. Very smart by the afl because it looks great. Angry man.

so to take a leaf out of your play book ...
you lied when you said in 10 years ago only 11 game and 16 game memberships were counted ?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

This is correct.

I've said a million times before and on several occasions to P66 that anything $50 or above is counted in the membership total. I don't know how many times he has mentioned in every years membership thread that they count more than they used to 10 years ago but the fact still remains $50 or above is counted. They could bring out a membership pack for the fingernail on my left thumb, if it's less than $50 it won't count.

obviously we are strange people cause we actually know what we are talking about in regards to this subject ...
i mean what would we know about membership of the club ... the lawnmower man from Ormund would know more than us ... or Matt finnis for that matter

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Wowee. Lots of love

sounds about right ... get shown to be compleatly wrong and turn the conversation to me hounding you ...
old cob if you stopped making dumb comments on things you know nothing about i wouldnt comment but you cant help yourself even though you are totally wrong you will double down on it ... its actually quite comical the plugger tantrum when he is proven wrong

 

[plugger66]

sounds about right ... get shown to be compleatly wrong and turn the conversation to me hounding you ...
old cob if you stopped making dumb comments on things you know nothing about i wouldnt comment but you cant help yourself even though you are totally wrong you will double down on it ... its actually quite comical the plugger tantrum when he is proven wrong

Not sure writing lots of love or wowee suggests a tantrum. Couldn't be more calmer. And me writing that doesn't mean im wrong. It means im bored and if im bored everyone else must be going around the bend. Happy to debate it further on PM. Anyway 30k membership is fantastic for this time of year. Wish we had the break down of those memberships.

 

[George]

obviously we are strange people cause we actually know what we are talking about in regards to this subject ...
i mean what would we know about membership of the club ... the lawnmower man from Ormund would know more than us ... or Matt finnis for that matter

He's alright. I think he means well. I've clashed with him several times. I think he's taking the piss a bit with the discussion over in the membership thread about people like me having no clue because I said production of membership items comes before the option to opt in. I think my point there was an obvious one. After several years of collating data then sure he would be correct the club would have a better idea of how much merchandise to buy but it's impossible to factor in on field performance and sudden increase in the demand for merchandise.

Anyway it's besides the point. If it was $50 or above to count as a member in 2009 and it's the same now then I can't see where he is coming from. They could make a million different membership packages, the transaction of $50 still needs to be made for it to count.

And if I had to choose who to believe on AFL expansion and WA's viability for a third side it would probably be someone from WA. I have absolutely no idea if WA has the resources to facilitate a third side but out of every other state, just looking at it in general, it seems WA has the best chance.

My views on expansion are that I want a team in Tasmania and NT. I don't want a third WA side. Have at least two sides in every state and play all teams once followed by the finals series. Makes it so much easier to fixture and less debate about inequality in the league.

For instance one year we play 9 teams away 10 teams at home, the following year we flip it. Easy. Wish money wasn't involved. Would make it an incredible competition.

 

[plugger66]

He's alright. I think he means well. I've clashed with him several times. I think he's taking the piss a bit with the discussion over in the membership thread about people like me having no clue because I said production of membership items comes before the option to opt in. I think my point there was an obvious one. After several years of collating data then sure he would be correct the club would have a better idea of how much merchandise to buy but it's impossible to factor in on field performance and sudden increase in the demand for merchandise.

Anyway it's besides the point. If it was $50 or above to count as a member in 2009 and it's the same now then I can't see where he is coming from. They could make a million different membership packages, the transaction of $50 still needs to be made for it to count.

And if I had to choose who to believe on AFL expansion and WA's viability for a third side it would probably be someone from WA. I have absolutely no idea if WA has the resources to facilitate a third side but out of every other state, just looking at it in general, it seems WA has the best chance.

My views on expansion are that I want a team in Tasmania and NT. I don't want a third WA side. Have at least two sides in every state and play all teams once followed by the finals series. Makes it so much easier to fixture and less debate about inequality in the league.

For instance one year we play 9 teams away 10 teams at home, the following year we flip it. Easy. Wish money wasn't involved. Would make it an incredible competition.

You cant be serious. Ive said you can guess the opt in amount by doing a survey the previous year. Im not suggesting we make the exact amount because thats impossible just as its impossible to make the exact amount as it is now. and of course there is a difference with membership numbers. Just because the price was say $50 in 2009 to be a member doesnt mean it should be now. Memberships werent decided by price back then, they were decided by the amount of games you bought. and that 11 or 16 plus interstate and similar which I accidently forgot. Now there are many more catogories. Its not that hard to see the difference.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

He's alright. I think he means well. I've clashed with him several times. I think he's taking the piss a bit with the discussion over in the membership thread about people like me having no clue because I said production of membership items comes before the option to opt in. I think my point there was an obvious one. After several years of collating data then sure he would be correct the club would have a better idea of how much merchandise to buy but it's impossible to factor in on field performance and sudden increase in the demand for merchandise.

Anyway it's besides the point. If it was $50 or above to count as a member in 2009 and it's the same now then I can't see where he is coming from. They could make a million different membership packages, the transaction of $50 still needs to be made for it to count.

And if I had to choose who to believe on AFL expansion and WA's viability for a third side it would probably be someone from WA. I have absolutely no idea if WA has the resources to facilitate a third side but out of every other state, just looking at it in general, it seems WA has the best chance.

My views on expansion are that I want a team in Tasmania and NT. I don't want a third WA side. Have at least two sides in every state and play all teams once followed by the finals series. Makes it so much easier to fixture and less debate about inequality in the league.

For instance one year we play 9 teams away 10 teams at home, the following year we flip it. Easy. Wish money wasn't involved. Would make it an incredible competition.

nah he is a bit of a flog in all honesty .... happy to jump on anyone else making the slightest mistake or supporting a unpopular view and hound them over it but when on the other shoe pulls out every trick in the book to divert it ... i get he is taking the piss most of the time but if you are going to be a devisive proflie then you cop the fall back for that . he likes to give off this air of him being above everyoneelse and only he sees the big picture and looks at things objectivly and ill admit on many things he does but he still is a flog 90% of the time ...

i personally would hate a 3rd WA team two is bad enough but the reality is WA is starting to get back into the situation where our population is set to boom again , big companys are staarting to gain some confidence and are open to splashing a bit more cash around and with the new stadium they want to utilise it as much as possible so from that stand point if the AFL wanted another team WA would be right up there with its hand up ...
in the end though i would much rather the AFL look at bringing in more teams over the alternative of them pushing to merge, relocate or disolve any team

 

[plugger66]

nah he is a bit of a flog in all honesty .... happy to jump on anyone else making the slightest mistake or supporting a unpopular view and hound them over it but when on the other shoe pulls out every trick in the book to divert it ... i get he is taking the piss most of the time but if you are going to be a devisive proflie then you cop the fall back for that . he likes to give off this air of him being above everyoneelse and only he sees the big picture and looks at things objectivly and ill admit on many things he does but he still is a flog 90% of the time ...

i personally would hate a 3rd WA team two is bad enough but the reality is WA is starting to get back into the situation where our population is set to boom again , big companys are staarting to gain some confidence and are open to splashing a bit more cash around and with the new stadium they want to utilise it as much as possible so from that stand point if the AFL wanted another team WA would be right up there with its hand up ...
in the end though i would much rather the AFL look at bringing in more teams over the alternative of them pushing to merge, relocate or disolve any team

Im here guys. I can read. I love being called a flog. Its so hurtful Id go 99% chip man. Im sure if you met me you would realise that. Just out of interest for you so you don't waste your time. I honestly don't care what you think or say about me. We should have a day a year where you cant get a warning for calling me anything you want. It would be great reading. Unfortunately the person saying it wouldn't get desired effect he wants. Anyway carry on. Signed flog99%

 

[George]

You cant be serious. Ive said you can guess the opt in amount by doing a survey the previous year. Im not suggesting we make the exact amount because thats impossible just as its impossible to make the exact amount as it is now. and of course there is a difference with membership numbers. Just because the price was say $50 in 2009 to be a member doesnt mean it should be now. Memberships werent decided by price back then, they were decided by the amount of games you bought. and that 11 or 16 plus interstate and similar which I accidently forgot. Now there are many more catogories. Its not that hard to see the difference.

This is what you said

Thanks for telling me what other peoples knowledge is compared to mine. Wowee. You wouldn't have a clue of their knowledge or mine on the subject. ive read plenty to suggest they have no better knowledge than me on the subject A reason being that we make the packs in advance so opt in wouldn't work proves they have little knowledge on the subject. Guess what im eating now? Yep chips

You don't know the amount of merchandise the club makes so how can you say you want less of it. Just because you and maybe a hundred others have the same view doesn't mean the club is making too much of it. If the club is making 50,000 scarves, beanies, etc and they survey 3000 people that say it's a waste but we have 50,000 members then what do we do. Without the knowledge of how much merch the club is actually producing I don't know how you can be so certain.

I think membership revenue is probably a better way to judge it. But yeah. Having more categories of membership doesn't mean membership numbers increase.

 

[Parkysp]

what a cracking read over a coffee on a lazy Saturday sitting in the sun on my balcony. I've p***ed myself laughing over the last few pages.
Being nodding my head in fierce agreement with each and every post and the arguments within.

I think i have it sorted in my head now though....

AFL good - attendances of 7,517,647 in 2019 were up by 531,693 on 2009 so more than half a million extra people went to watch AFL games comparing those two points. Yay AFL

AFL bad - 298,763 people that should have gone to a game during season 2019 based on the 2009 averages didn't. You Suck AFL

Did they not go because of game quality, rules interpretations, salary cap, draft rules, video games?

Who knows but I do know one thing. This thread for me is WINNING! Thanks to all for the entertainment