Opinion Vent & Offtopic

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briztoon said:
No. Purely looking at the optics of the trade.

Forget the player involved.

Just look at the trade in isolation, and tell the majority of BF how the AFL can tick off the trade.

From a Suns perspective I have no problem with the trade, as I understand the Suns point of view.


Later in the night the AFL blocked a Brisbane and West Coast trade that only involved late picks and late future picks.

The reason why they blocked it was they felt it left West Coasts to short handed in next years draft.

West Coasts argument was they were moving one pick ahead a year, higher up the draft board, so a better pick, and able to draft a local kid. But AFL still blocked the trade.
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well as lopsided as the trade was, int doesn't leave us short handed next year. so not exactly comparable
 
Does anyone else get sick of the constant bagging of Scotty Clayton? He brought in some great talent to the Suns. Of course he had a few failures too. No one gets everything right. He wasn’t responsible for how they were coached, how their injuries were managed or how long it took to get decent facilities. He was working within the parameters he was given & I reckon he did a decent job.
 
Fat Pizza said:
Does anyone else get sick of the constant bagging of Scotty Clayton? He brought in some great talent to the Suns. Of course he had a few failures too. No one gets everything right. He wasn’t responsible for how they were coached, how their injuries were managed or how long it took to get decent facilities. He was working within the parameters he was given & I reckon he did a decent job.
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You’re kidding?
 

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Fat Pizza said:
Does anyone else get sick of the constant bagging of Scotty Clayton? He brought in some great talent to the Suns. Of course he had a few failures too. No one gets everything right. He wasn’t responsible for how they were coached, how their injuries were managed or how long it took to get decent facilities. He was working within the parameters he was given & I reckon he did a decent job.
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WEST COAST receives...

2017 draft: 21 (Oscar Allen), 26 (Liam Ryan), 37 (Jack Petrucelle)

2018 draft: 20 (James Rowbottom)

GOLD COAST receives...

2017 draft: 50 (Brayden Crossley)

2018 draft: 18 (Jez McLennan)


So far West Coast got the best 4 players from that trade.
Based off that alone, Clayton was horrible for us.
 
Fat Pizza said:
Does anyone else get sick of the constant bagging of Scotty Clayton? He brought in some great talent to the Suns. Of course he had a few failures too. No one gets everything right. He wasn’t responsible for how they were coached, how their injuries were managed or how long it took to get decent facilities. He was working within the parameters he was given & I reckon he did a decent job.
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Whatever his failings, he did put together a killer midfield (that never really got to play together) and grabbed a not bad forward in Lynch, to go with a couple decent backs (May, Thompson).

His flourishes are mostly the things people point to when they bag him.
 
Fat Pizza said:
Does anyone else get sick of the constant bagging of Scotty Clayton? He brought in some great talent to the Suns. Of course he had a few failures too. No one gets everything right. He wasn’t responsible for how they were coached, how their injuries were managed or how long it took to get decent facilities. He was working within the parameters he was given & I reckon he did a decent job.
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Our first draft year ended up costing us big time and it went downhill from there.
- gave away Zorko to Brisbane
- selected Jeremy Taylor at 39, Luke Parker went next pick.
- had the first 5 picks in the pre season draft and then Mick Barlow went a pick or 2 later. Was leading the Brownlow in his first year.
- Isaac Smith at 19..
- We needed mature agers to support Ablett, Rischitelli and others early days. Smith, Zorko and Barlow were all 21-22.
His biggest mistake was trying to select a super team based on positions rather than draft the best players available.
KK, Leslie, Lonergan, Ah Chee, Garlett all first rounders..
Yes the midfield was talented but super light in numbers.
Shaw, Leslie, Tape and others not up to it but on the list for 6+ seasons.
Even his allies began questioning whether he had failed to change with the contested game.
The end result was clearly the worst list going around, with a salary cap at breaking point.
 
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Mt Isa Mustang said:
WEST COAST receives...

2017 draft: 21 (Oscar Allen), 26 (Liam Ryan), 37 (Jack Petrucelle)

2018 draft: 20 (James Rowbottom)

GOLD COAST receives...

2017 draft: 50 (Brayden Crossley)

2018 draft: 18 (Jez McLennan)


So far West Coast got the best 4 players from that trade.
Based off that alone, Clayton was horrible for us.
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Worpel instead of Nutting,
Sam Taylor or bred Daniel instead of Crossley and summit to afl GCS academy concession rather than send all those second round pick to Eagles.
 
Peel67skin said:
Worpel instead of Nutting,
Sam Taylor or bred Daniel instead of Crossley and summit to afl GCS academy concession rather than send all those second round pick to Eagles.
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Here are 10 guys that went pick 20 - pick 40 in 2017, we gave up 3 picks in this range.

Tim Kelly
Liam Ryan
Brent Daniels
Sam Taylor
Bailey Fritsch
Charlie Constable
Oscar Allen
Tom Mccartin
Jack Petrucelle
Noah Balta


Wouldn't have minded a mature age Kelly, Ryan or Fritsch over the last few years!
There is still hope that Jez McLennan turns out to be a 200 game, solid back pocket for us. Is a huge amount to give up though.


We also traded 2017 pick 39 for Wigg + 2018 4th round (no one of note so far picked here)

Could have got Worpel, Kane Farrel, Gryan Miers at pick 39 - All handy (or more) players. Although, guess we could have seen Wigg as a Harbrow replacement. That didn't work out well either.
 
Mt Isa Mustang said:
Here are 10 guys that went pick 20 - pick 40 in 2017, we gave up 3 picks in this range.

Tim Kelly
Liam Ryan
Brent Daniels
Sam Taylor
Bailey Fritsch
Charlie Constable
Oscar Allen
Tom Mccartin
Jack Petrucelle
Noah Balta


Wouldn't have minded a mature age Kelly, Ryan or Fritsch over the last few years!
There is still hope that Jez McLennan turns out to be a 200 game, solid back pocket for us. Is a huge amount to give up though.


We also traded 2017 pick 39 for Wigg + 2018 4th round (no one of note so far picked here)

Could have got Worpel, Kane Farrel, Gryan Miers at pick 39 - All handy (or more) players. Although, guess we could have seen Wigg as a Harbrow replacement. That didn't work out well either.
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Depend on luck also, Richmond got one chance in rookie pick and they pick Liam Baker, new rule Spp and mid season draft they get Sydney stack, Pickett and yet GCS use those on redrafting Wigg, Leslie, shoenfield.
 
Scotty_222 said:
You’re kidding?
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Not kidding. Just sticking up for a guy who is being unfairly maligned. It is easy to selectively pick holes in the record of any recruiter or list manger, although it is odd that some of the decisions being referenced actually were actually made after Scott left. I could just as easily point to Powell, Ballard, Witts, Holman & Saad to mount a case for him being a genius.

Clayton's biggest problem came when our starting midfielders of Ablett, O'Meara, Swallow & Prestia were all struck down with long-term debilitating injuries at the same time. Take the starting midfield out of any team & they'll find it tough. At the same time, we had injuries to some of their backups, plus key forwards & backs. Not only did that stuff up our Total Player Payments, but it ruined our chances of onfield success. I firmly believe if we'd had a reasonable run with injuries, we'd have made finals in that time. Our TPP would have been easier to manage & we'd also have had a much easier time recruiting & keeping players.

Far too much is being blamed on Clayton.
 
Fat Pizza said:
Not kidding. Just sticking up for a guy who is being unfairly maligned. It is easy to selectively pick holes in the record of any recruiter or list manger, although it is odd that some of the decisions being referenced actually were actually made after Scott left. I could just as easily point to Powell, Ballard, Witts, Holman & Saad to mount a case for him being a genius.

Clayton's biggest problem came when our starting midfielders of Ablett, O'Meara, Swallow & Prestia were all struck down with long-term debilitating injuries at the same time. Take the starting midfield out of any team & they'll find it tough. At the same time, we had injuries to some of their backups, plus key forwards & backs. Not only did that stuff up our Total Player Payments, but it ruined our chances of onfield success. I firmly believe if we'd had a reasonable run with injuries, we'd have made finals in that time. Our TPP would have been easier to manage & we'd also have had a much easier time recruiting & keeping players.

Far too much is being blamed on Clayton.
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The early administration of Witheriff and Auld have a lot to answer for too as does McKenna and Eade.
Oh yeah and so does Ashcroft and probably the Strength and Conditioning staff from early days.
 
Mr Bods said:
The early administration of Witheriff and Auld have a lot to answer for too as does McKenna and Eade.
Oh yeah and so does Ashcroft and probably the Strength and Conditioning staff from early days.
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Wittheriff wasn't too bad. A lot of forced influence from the AFL I'm led to believe

Plus let's face it, without him, there is no Gold Coast AFL team
 

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I think if you compare our inception to gws', they went for young future stars like ward, davis, palmer (didn't work out) but it was a younger demographic that would grow with their picks, coupled with quite a few players who were only ever there for 2-3 years while their younger bodies developed like power, brogan, cornes, etc.. we went down the path of getting in the best talent we could find like brennan, ablett, bock, rischa, etc, I just felt like that was a strategic error on our part, or at least it worked out to look that way.

If we kept jom, prestia, bennel, caddy, lynch, dixon, may then perhaps i would maybe feel different about things, but combined with other factors like inexperienced coaches, poor facilities etc these players left, which to me, points to an overall strategic error from the start.

I think GWS were tanking before they started, they got their draft hand and realised they could also secure another 3 or so #1 picks while their list grows, we wanted success yesterday.

We've also resigned some players that has left me scratching my head.

On SM-G960W using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Mr Bods said:
Witheriff promised too much which when it turned out was way off the mark caused a lot of people to feel let down and overly frustrated
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I sympathise with that, but that's part of his job. The Coch does exactly the same thing. Need to build hype somehow
 
Mr Bods said:
Witheriff promised too much which when it turned out was way off the mark caused a lot of people to feel let down and overly frustrated
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Was he the one that promised 20-1-3? Now that was promising too much.
 
SUNS said:
Wittheriff wasn't too bad. A lot of forced influence from the AFL I'm led to believe

Plus let's face it, without him, there is no Gold Coast AFL team
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That period was shocking for his health and he did his best. I know a good friend of his.

Got a ton of respect for John he's a fantastic bloke.

James Brayshaw IQ = 4
 
MaySwallow4Heron said:
That period was shocking for his health and he did his best. I know a good friend of his.

Got a ton of respect for John he's a fantastic bloke.

James Brayshaw IQ = 4
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His mistake was promising the world and putting a timeframe on it to foundation players and fans.
When it didn’t come true and the opposite occurred it fractured us.
The challenge accepted mantra of today is one that is realistic and players and fans can take on and sustain.
 
Mr Bods said:
His mistake was promising the world and putting a timeframe on it to foundation players and fans.
When it didn’t come true and the opposite occurred it fractured us.
The challenge accepted mantra of today is one that is realistic and players and fans can take on and sustain.
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True but * me he was bold and wanted the best. Easy to criticise in hindsight. He had a ******* hard job.

James Brayshaw IQ = 4
 
Our facilities were garbage (if we weren't willing to spend on facilities, it makes you question what else we cut corners on) and we had a shocking run with injuries. That's what really ruined us. I don't think we went about it badly by going for mature bodies, the issue was that players like Bock got injured pretty early and we were basically doing the same as GWS (playing the kids, less talented ones at that) as a result.

We were pretty close to playing finals until Ablett injured his shoulder, don't forget that. His recruitment was not a failure.
 
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